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  #181  
Old 05-14-2019, 12:08 PM
airguy's Avatar
airguy airguy is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by breister View Post
While O2 tanks do lose some weight slowly as they discharge, the difference in weight change over a flight is far less than for fuel. Locating them where a header tank would have been would result in far less CG change than a comparable fuel tank.
You missed the point entirely. It was never about CG, it was about the oxygen.

Throw a rod on the engine, ventilate the block and fill the FWF with an oil fire - now lets think for about half a second about what happens when the oxygen tank ruptures/leaks and turns your airplane into a blowtorch, with you on the downwind side.

Adding a second firewall further forward and then putting those things in the new firewall-aft space has some merit - but some things should NOT be FWF.
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Last edited by airguy : 05-14-2019 at 12:11 PM.
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  #182  
Old 05-14-2019, 10:58 PM
Darin Watson Darin Watson is online now
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Calgary, AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airguy View Post
You missed the point entirely. It was never about CG, it was about the oxygen.
...not to mention the inevitable drop of oil or oil mist around O2....Iíll take the next fight, thanks.
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  #183  
Old 05-17-2019, 12:28 PM
breister breister is offline
 
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Location: Atlanta, GA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airguy View Post
You missed the point entirely. It was never about CG, it was about the oxygen.

Throw a rod on the engine, ventilate the block and fill the FWF with an oil fire - now lets think for about half a second about what happens when the oxygen tank ruptures/leaks and turns your airplane into a blowtorch, with you on the downwind side.

Adding a second firewall further forward and then putting those things in the new firewall-aft space has some merit - but some things should NOT be FWF.
I don't think it would be the issue you make it out to be. Yes, there would be a momentary increase in combustion temperature - but only momentary.

Edit: Reading back through this, somebody misunderstood me. I did not advocate for O2 forward of the firewall, but in lieu of the header tank.

Last edited by breister : 05-17-2019 at 12:33 PM.
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  #184  
Old 05-17-2019, 01:07 PM
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airguy airguy is offline
 
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Originally Posted by breister View Post
I don't think it would be the issue you make it out to be. Yes, there would be a momentary increase in combustion temperature - but only momentary.

Edit: Reading back through this, somebody misunderstood me. I did not advocate for O2 forward of the firewall, but in lieu of the header tank.
Fair enough on your position choice - but as for the momentary increase in combustion temperature, I'm going to disagree.

I have a fair bit of experience in "assisting" things normally not considered to be fuels to burn in the presence of various oxidizers. I know what can happen, I've seen it and done it, and I prefer not to let it happen in an aircraft.

Now back to the subject at hand - what is the ballpark timeframe on this RV14 install?
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  #185  
Old 05-19-2019, 06:33 PM
breister breister is offline
 
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Location: Atlanta, GA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airguy View Post
Fair enough on your position choice - but as for the momentary increase in combustion temperature, I'm going to disagree.

I have a fair bit of experience in "assisting" things normally not considered to be fuels to burn in the presence of various oxidizers. I know what can happen, I've seen it and done it, and I prefer not to let it happen in an aircraft.
You can disagree. IMHO the air moving under the cowl would blow any O2 short of a catastrophic tank failure clear too fast to materially affect combustion unless fuel were streaming directly onto the leak or the tank was otherwise right up against the source of fuel, which would indeed be a foolish installation choice. A catastrophic failure would empty the tank almost immediately.

I played around with O2 tanks too as a kid, both in a welding shop and a steel mill where everything was oily.... It might be fun if we had lots of government funding to run simulations to find out how likely various installations and disasters would be to cause a catastrophe...
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  #186  
Old 05-28-2019, 01:10 PM
Sue Sue is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Ok
Posts: 62
Default O2

I agree, just a momentary rise in pressure and
Temperature, then shortly after you can look for
Your clothes and the rest of your aircraft.
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  #187  
Old 07-17-2019, 12:07 PM
breister breister is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbine Aeronautics View Post
I don't think anyone is advocating having header tanks/oxy tanks etc. forward of the firewall. If anyone did do that, they should probably be reported to the TSA as a suspicious person.

However, if the firewall could be moved forward 6-12", there would be scope to add weight aft of the new firewall location, but well forward for cg purposes.

Dave
That's a very interesting idea, on the small Lancairs that would create a small space to install permanent O2 which in turn would help with the W&B change using the lighter engine.

Been two months since we've heard from you - any development updates for your fans? Is there somewhere (Facebook, etc.) where you post progress?
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  #188  
Old 07-18-2019, 08:13 AM
Turbine Aeronautics Turbine Aeronautics is offline
 
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Location: Adelaide, South Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by breister View Post
That's a very interesting idea, on the small Lancairs that would create a small space to install permanent O2 which in turn would help with the W&B change using the lighter engine.

Been two months since we've heard from you - any development updates for your fans? Is there somewhere (Facebook, etc.) where you post progress?
Hi Bill,

We are trying to keep our publicity low key until we have tangible, running hardware that folks can see and where we have demonstrable and verifiable performance figures. Too many folks have been promised new fangled inventions that have not delivered and consequently, folks are wary.

Our approach has always been to remain low key until we are no longer vapor ware, so we are refraining from getting out there until we have something real to show (website aside).

As our prototype engine comes together during Q4 this year in preparation for its first runs late this year/early next year, we will publicize our progress more actively on social media. A Facebook page will probably be the main interactive forum.

As of now, the development work is progressing in a very pleasing manner. We shall shortly be prototyping and testing some of our individual components to verify the actual performance of those components against the theoretical performance.

I speak with my Chief Technical Officer on a daily basis and itís a bit like a soap opera. I canít wait for the next installment. This is a very exciting project for me and to see it coming together, with a light at the end of the tunnel is a great feeling. Of course, I need to temper my expectations because this is a complex technical program that we are running. It would be unrealistic to expect that once on the stand, we can push the start button and it will work right first time. However, we have a very experienced team of designers working on our engine and their knowledge and experience will help minimize the potential pitfalls.

Iíll be at Oshkosh for the week. Iíd be happy to catch up with folks that want to meet up (I am meeting many of the airframe manufacturers and other suppliers so my time will be a bit restricted). If folks on this forum show an interest, we may be able to coordinate to meet at an eatery or display where Iíd be happy to answer what questions I can.

Dave
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  #189  
Old 07-18-2019, 08:37 AM
Jpm757 Jpm757 is offline
 
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Location: Sherman, CT
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Best of luck with your project!
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  #190  
Old 07-18-2019, 08:56 AM
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rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
 
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Total class act Dave. This is how new engine (and airframe) projects should be done.
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Turbo Subaru EJ22, SDS EFI, Marcotte M-300, IVO, Shorai- RV6A C-GVZX flying from CYBW since 2003- 434.4 hrs. on the Hobbs,
RV10 95% built- Sold 2016
http://www.sdsefi.com/aircraft.html
http://sdsefi.com/cpi2.htm


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