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  #1  
Old 11-24-2017, 06:34 PM
2johns 2johns is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Great Falls, Montana
Posts: 80
Default refueling my RV12

I'm tired of hauling 5 gallon cans of gas. My airport car is a 2001 Chrysler van has a 20 gallon gas tank and internal pump that can put out 5 GPM. Is it a pipe dream to try to tap into it?
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  #2  
Old 11-24-2017, 07:45 PM
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rongawer rongawer is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brentwood, CA
Posts: 239
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Not a pipe dream, but a slightly better option is to build a “portable unit”.

I got a 30 gallon fuel tank out of a junk yard. It had the pump internal to the tank (I think it was a Chevy tahoe). I simply put handles on it and made up a power wire to my 12V on the truck, added a static wire and booyah , a fuel transfer tank for not much money.

You could technically put it in the trunk of a car, but you might want to check your local laws. Or go roque
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  #3  
Old 11-24-2017, 09:06 PM
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vernon smith vernon smith is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Naples FL
Posts: 104
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I'm using an old race car fuel cell bladder (ATL). Find some local race car shops and they will probably have some old ones laying around. You want the black hard plastic bladder. Northern tool sells a small 12v transfer pump with all the hoses and a gas station style filler nozzle for $100.00. It says diesel only but they have to say that. I use a large funnel with an automotive paint strainer into the tank.

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...2558_200612558

I use a light weight industrial push kart with the fuel cell on the top and the 12v battery and a charger on the bottom.

The top shelf on the push kart lines up well with the tail gate on the pickup so I can side the cell into the truck bed with minimal strain

Next time I go to the AP I'll take a picture.
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  #4  
Old 11-24-2017, 09:15 PM
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Piper J3 Piper J3 is offline
 
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Location: Hinckley, Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vernon smith View Post
Northern tool sells a small 12v transfer pump with all the hoses and a gas station style filler nozzle for $100.00. It says diesel only but they have to say that.
I'd use a little caution here... "diesel only" means just that. There are similar style pumps made specifically for gasoline.

Just saying...
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  #5  
Old 11-24-2017, 09:36 PM
waterboy2110 waterboy2110 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SF Bay Area
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Down right scary what you folks are doing to save a few cents on fuel.
Just saying...
I started out hauling fuel around until certified 91 UL melted a piston. It's just not worth the risk to the engine or the plane in case of a fire.
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  #6  
Old 11-24-2017, 09:47 PM
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DaleB DaleB is offline
 
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Location: Omaha, NE (KMLE)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waterboy2110 View Post
I started out hauling fuel around until certified 91 UL melted a piston. It's just not worth the risk to the engine or the plane in case of a fire.
Wait, what melted a piston?

The only fuel on field is leaded avgas, so I keep three 5 gallon plastic gas cans in the back of the truck. It's less than a mile from the gas station selling ethanol-free premium to the hangar. I've briefly considered a larger container, but I don't like the thought of hauling gasoline around any more than necessary. The guy I bought the plane from had a 15 gallon fuel can with a 2-wheel cart and pump... definitely not worth the hassle of getting something like that in and out of my pickup bed.
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  #7  
Old 11-24-2017, 10:02 PM
waterboy2110 waterboy2110 is offline
 
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Location: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleB View Post
Wait, what melted a piston?
I've kept it on the down low hoping Rotax would come through with the warranty but that's not looking too promising.

It was a warm day, EFIS data says the engine was within it's operating parameters - Phillips 66 was nice enough to pull a fuel sample and confirm I had good fuel.

New engine - 4 hour conversation with head of Quality Control for AvGas from Phillips... Bottom line - it just not worth the risk for me.
You guys do what feels right for you.
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  #8  
Old 11-24-2017, 10:18 PM
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rongawer rongawer is offline
 
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Location: Brentwood, CA
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Default A few cents?

Let’s see, at 36 gallons a week for 100LL @$4.05/gallon, that’s $145 a week. The same amount in 91UL @$2.80/gallon is $100.80. So, assuming 46 weeks a year, that’s roughly $2,000 a year. Plus, I have to deal with leaded fuel, a dirtier engine, more frequent oil changes and so on... it’s a lot more than a few cents.

Now, if you’re engine isn’t rated to run on 91AKI, then you have a separate issue. But for those who can on run on MOGAS, why not?

Stopping at the gas station on the way to airport and filling a portable tank is pretty easy. And then just running the hose over to the airplane and transfering it is pretty easy too. IMO, it’s about the same effort as moving the plane over to the pumps and fueling it there; even a little less hassle.

As for the fear, uncertainty and doubt (FUD) about diesel versus gasoline fuel tanks - there’s physically nothing different about the tank. Just be sure to use a static line as the diesel one’s don’t have one.
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- RV12, N975G, SN 120840, Build in progress...finishing up.
- BE58, N1975G, stimulating the economy one flight at a time.

Last edited by rongawer : 11-24-2017 at 10:23 PM.
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  #9  
Old 11-24-2017, 10:22 PM
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vernon smith vernon smith is offline
 
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Location: Naples FL
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Before there is a mass migration to the "buy it at the airport philosophy" you should look at the fuels Rotax recommends, none of which are available at most local airports. Our field (PGN) is full of Rotax planes fueled by premium pump gas. Their hangers are full of five gallon lawn mower plastic cans. Hopefully, the fire marshal is sympathetic. I called the local Rotax dealer and high test pump gas is their number one recommended fuel, although I thought it would be 90 no ethanol.

If you are going to transport gasoline in any manner I suggest the best way, short of a semi truck, is a racing fuel cell designed to withstand impact collisions in excess of 200 mph. Additionally, the fuel cell comes with AN liquid transfer fitting in place, so all the normal aviation plumbing hardware screws into place.

I'm not making any recommendations as to how you should get your fuel to a location that does not have it available, I'm just telling you how I do it.
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  #10  
Old 11-24-2017, 10:58 PM
RFSchaller RFSchaller is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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I use the 5 gallon plastic containers and I agree with the gripes about hoisting 30 lbs of fuel up to pour it in. The new self venting nozzles are horrible with the pitiful trickle they provide. Many thanks to the Vans AF member who posted the vent and nozzle kit that converts the cans to the old style of pouring from a vented container.

I thought about a fuel caddy, but then realized I would still have to fill cans at the station to then pour into the caddy before fueling my plane. (I have no practical way to transport a caddy with 120 lbs of fuel in it between the airport and gas station.

In the end I just continue to haul gas and curse the spills and weight of the cans.
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