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  #11  
Old 11-25-2017, 09:07 AM
Dayton Murdock's Avatar
Dayton Murdock Dayton Murdock is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Carson City NV
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Default Update

Hi All
I have moved the Fuselage to the shop and begun work

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The floor boards are removed and the first change will be to relocate the ELT
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VAF#408 RV4 N359DM Flying 940 hrs. 6/1/2017
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  #12  
Old 11-29-2017, 01:53 PM
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smokyray smokyray is offline
 
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Default No substitute?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton Murdock View Post
Hi All
I have decided to upgrade my RV-4 with a O360 C/S and this will be the thread of that process.

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I look forward to any commits and advise
Hi Dayton,
Having done this conversion for several friends over the years here are a few points to ponder...

1. Vetterman 4 pipe won’t fit the same, you’ll need a new #4 pipe.
2. Will need new baffling/plenum/carb intake scoop. Yup, have to cut cowl.
3. May need to tweak cowling for fit, 0360 is wider.
4. New CG/Restricred AW cert required, logbook entry/FSDO visit easiest.
5. Bottom line? $3000 per knot/100fpm climb increase.


V/R
Smokey

PS: It didn't dogfight any better either but (as mentioned above) takeoff/climb mucho grande.

Last edited by smokyray : 11-29-2017 at 02:09 PM.
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  #13  
Old 11-29-2017, 03:43 PM
Dayton Murdock's Avatar
Dayton Murdock Dayton Murdock is offline
 
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Location: Carson City NV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokyray View Post
Hi Dayton,
Having done this conversion for several friends over the years here are a few points to ponder...

4. New CG/Restricred AW cert required, logbook entry/FSDO visit easiest.
5. Bottom line? $3000 per knot/100fpm climb increase.


V/R
Smokey

PS: It didn't dogfight any better either but (as mentioned above) takeoff/climb mucho grande.
The CG I knew about, Restricred AW what is that?
And I told my wife before I started that this would be cost neutral
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  #14  
Old 11-29-2017, 05:07 PM
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rvmills rvmills is offline
 
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Hey Dayton, what is cost neutral? Does that mean you have to spend the same amount on stuff she wants as you spend on the plane? That seems to be the way it's working at my place...new panel = new flooring!

Can't wait to see your FWF come together!

Cheers,
Bob


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton Murdock View Post
The CG I knew about, Restricred AW what is that?
And I told my wife before I started that this would be cost neutral
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  #15  
Old 11-29-2017, 05:16 PM
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Ironflight Ironflight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton Murdock View Post
The CG I knew about, Restricred AW what is that?
And I told my wife before I started that this would be cost neutral
Not sure what Smoky is saying, unless he means you have to put it back into Phase 1 for a period of time. We should read your Ops Lims to make sure what version you have - but its not going to be a big deal beyond a few hours of testing.

Paul
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  #16  
Old 11-29-2017, 07:25 PM
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smokyray smokyray is offline
 
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Default Change in my pocket...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton Murdock View Post
The CG I knew about, Restricred AW what is that?
And I told my wife before I started that this would be cost neutral
Dayton,
I was referring to the original Restricted Airworthiness Certification/Operating limitations you received from the FAA post construction. You can reference it for any major changes (prop, HP etc) for the log entry when you re-enter phase 1 as Paul mentioned. You set the test period as necessary, Mel Asbury recommended 5-15 hours to me as a guide. Email him if you have questions.

I can email you a sample log entry if you need.
V/R
Smokey

BTW, there is never a cost neutral involving airplanes....

Last edited by smokyray : 11-29-2017 at 07:39 PM.
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  #17  
Old 11-30-2017, 01:17 PM
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smokyray smokyray is offline
 
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Default Not done till the paperwork....

Dayton,
Here’s the FAA entry from my Ops Limits on the 0320A to 0360JJ conversion on the X.

"I certify that the prescribed flight test hours have been completed and the aircraft is controllable throughout it's normal range of speeds and throughout all maneuvers to be executed, has no hazardous characteristics or design features and is safe for operation. The following aircraft operating data has been demonstrated during flight testing: Speeds Vso___;Vx____;and Vy___ and the weight____and CG location____at which they were obtained".


V/R
Smokey
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  #18  
Old 11-30-2017, 01:36 PM
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RV8JD RV8JD is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokyray View Post
Dayton,
I was referring to the original Restricted Airworthiness Certification/Operating limitations you received from the FAA post construction. You can reference it for any major changes (prop, HP etc) for the log entry when you re-enter phase 1 as Paul mentioned. You set the test period as necessary, Mel Asbury recommended 5-15 hours to me as a guide. Email him if you have questions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokyray View Post
Dayton,
Here’s the FAA entry from my Ops Limits on the 0320A to 0360JJ conversion on the X.

"I certify that the prescribed flight test hours have been completed and the aircraft is controllable throughout it's normal range of speeds and throughout all maneuvers to be executed, has no hazardous characteristics or design features and is safe for operation. The following aircraft operating data has been demonstrated during flight testing: Speeds Vso___;Vx____;and Vy___ and the weight____and CG location____at which they were obtained".

V/R
Smokey
Smokey,

I think folks were confused by your use of "Restricted" Airworthiness Certification. You may have meant "Special" Airworthiness Certificate, which is what E-AB's get.
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  #19  
Old 12-01-2017, 05:01 AM
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smokyray smokyray is offline
 
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Default In the details...

Carl,
Good point sir!
I was trying to emphasize (albeit vaguely) the need to make two logbook entries when you make a major change to an Experimental (amateur built) aircraft's performance/CG and re-enter/exit Phase 1 testing. As you know the FAA provides sample logbook entries in the Ops Limits of the Restricted AW cert document.

Hopefully anyone interested in making changes to an already successfully flying airplane can utilize the info.

Cya!
Smokey
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  #20  
Old 12-03-2017, 09:00 AM
Dayton Murdock's Avatar
Dayton Murdock Dayton Murdock is offline
 
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Yesterday I punch the hole for my autopilot upgrade. I was reminded that we build and upgrade your airplanes with the help and support of your friends and family. My wife made a excel spread sheet to keep me in budget. Paul Dye has loaned me a tool or two and given me some of the best advise. Dave Asp provides encouragement on occasion. We are all part of this experience and I was just looking back at the journey. Just think I will have a RED O360 C/S RV-4 with an autopilot!! CAN IT GET ANY BETTER!!



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