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  #11  
Old 03-27-2017, 10:54 AM
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RV6_flyer RV6_flyer is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt View Post
I don't understand this fascination with auto parts store supplies, my guess is one could find standard 5606 at practically every airport in the world, ATF well not so much.
We are both thinking alike.

I have been using MIL-PRF-83282 for years. It is the synthetic replacement for 5606 and is compatible with 5606. Either can be used with the other. 5606 is all we need but the higher price synthetic MIL-PRF-83282 replacement has a higher flash point.

Would love to see those using ATF run some tests.
1. Can ATF and 5606 or Mil-PRF-83282 be mixed together?
2. How well do O-Ring seals & Viton seals hold up long term with ATF?
3. What changes to the properties of seals with long term exposure to ATF?

Inquiring minds want to know.
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  #12  
Old 03-27-2017, 11:30 AM
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Walt Walt is offline
 
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Originally Posted by John-G View Post
What you say is true Walt and certainly holds a lot of weight coming from you.

The issue some of us want to avoid, if possible, is being stranded some late afternoon at a smaller airport that looks like a ghost town (which many do these days). Even at larger fields 5606 has to be ordered at times if the FBO is out of stock ... as a friend of mine recently experienced.
Hate to say it but the best way to avoid the above scenereo is to take care of your equipment (regular inspections and action taken when discrepancies are found). God forbid you spend the time every few months to actually pull the wheel pants, check the pads, check for leaks, air up the tires etc..

Rarely does the brake system just fail and puke all its fluid. I just had an airplane in here where the owner admitted the right brake had been leaking for a few months but elected to just keep adding fluid until he brought it in.

After we discussed the possible outcome of a failed brake, and how lucky he was, I doubt he will let this go again in the future.

PS: I use the 83282 (Royco 782) exclusively, I won't personally service an airplane with ATF.
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Walt Aronow, Dallas, TX (52F) RV7A, IO360, C/S, 1500+hrs

EXP Aircraft Services LLC
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Last edited by Walt : 03-28-2017 at 06:35 AM.
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  #13  
Old 03-27-2017, 11:47 AM
gasman gasman is offline
 
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During any kind of a brake leak or failure repair, brake fluid is the LAST part you need.......
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  #14  
Old 03-27-2017, 12:45 PM
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F1Boss F1Boss is offline
 
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Location: Taylor Texas
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Default They all mix together fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RV6_flyer View Post
We are both thinking alike.

snip

Would love to see those using ATF run some tests.
1. Can ATF and 5606 or Mil-PRF-83282 be mixed together?
2. How well do O-Ring seals & Viton seals hold up long term with ATF?
3. What changes to the properties of seals with long term exposure to ATF?

Inquiring minds want to know.
I've been using the stuff for years (since 1990?) in many different types of aviation applications. It is also available in any city you might find yourself stranded in - even at any auto fuel station that might be nearby. Mixing the different fluids poses no operational problems - they are all 'mineral' type fluids.

Also - you do know that Home Depot (and most hardware stores) carries emergency use O-rings for your brake calipers? Just in case! Grab the ruined ones and get a set to match.

I can't see any difference in O-ring life, using any std material O-rings. Elec over Hyd pumps (boat trim systems, EXP aircraft R/G systems, etc) also use ATF with no issues.

Auto brake systems use a different seal material, so mineral fluids cannot be used there..

Carry on!
Mark
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  #15  
Old 03-27-2017, 03:29 PM
Tram Tram is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt View Post
PS: I use the 83282 (Royco 782) exclusively, I won't personally service an airplane with ATF.
Outside of "I won't use it.." would you be willing to explain why you see it as an issue?
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  #16  
Old 03-27-2017, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tram View Post
Outside of "I won't use it.." would you be willing to explain why you see it as an issue?
You bet, because it's not an approved fluid by any of the brake or airframe manufactures that I'm aware of (please correct me if I'm wrong).
And I freely admit to not being as smart as the manufactureres of these systems so I tend to go with their recommendations.

I'm not one to be overly concerned about lawsuits and such, but if it ever came up it would be awfully hard to explain why you elected to use transmission fluid in a brake system rather than the recommended fluid or an approved substitute.
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EXP Aircraft Services LLC
Specializing in RV Condition Inspections, Maintenance, Avionics Upgrades
Dynamic Prop Balancing, Pitot-Static Altmeter/Transponder Certification
FAA Certified Repair Station, AP/IA/FCC GROL, EAA Technical Counselor
Authorized Garmin G3X Dealer/Installer
Website: ExpAircraft.com, Email: walt@expaircraft.com, Cell: 972-746-5154

Last edited by Walt : 03-27-2017 at 04:54 PM.
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  #17  
Old 03-27-2017, 05:01 PM
Tram Tram is offline
 
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Fair enough. I can't say that I'd use it in a customers aircraft if I were an A&P, actually but m fairly certain there'd be zero chance of me using anything but what the manufacturer called for, especially in our sue happy society.

Just called my local airport, anything I need is going to have to be ordered. Zero brake fluid, and we are a fairly "large" non-towered field.
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  #18  
Old 03-27-2017, 05:04 PM
F1R F1R is offline
 
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Default Flame Suit On ?

I like the higher flash point protection. Along with the Mobil 1 ATF, I use viton o rings in the calipers for increased temperature protection. Neither one should be required, HOWEVER there have been a few Cirrus SR 22 wheel fire incidents where and extended long taxi in very strong X winds required extended brake application that compromised the buna N orings with a wheel pant fire resulting when the 5606 leaked onto the hot disks.

Do your own research carefully but as an experimental you can decide accordingly.

YMMV
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  #19  
Old 03-27-2017, 05:07 PM
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RV7A Flyer RV7A Flyer is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt View Post
You bet, because it's not an approved fluid by any of the brake or airframe manufactures that I'm aware of (please correct me if I'm wrong).
And I freely admit to not being as smart as the manufactureres of these systems so I tend to go with their recommendations.

I'm not one to be overly concerned about lawsuits and such, but if it ever came up it would be awfully hard to explain why you elected to use transmission fluid in a brake system rather than the recommended fluid or an approved substitute.
I believe BMW recommends ATF in some of their power steering systems...

I wouldn't put so much stock in "approved fluid" lists from manufacturers as to *never* stray from them, albeit normally I'll abide by their recommendations for reasons as stated above.

But really...for brakes, as long as the fluid is compatible with the seals, what else is there? Aluminum lines, flared tube fittings, and such?
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  #20  
Old 03-27-2017, 07:01 PM
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Walt Walt is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F1R View Post
I like the higher flash point protection. Along with the Mobil 1 ATF, I use viton o rings in the calipers for increased temperature protection. Neither one should be required, HOWEVER there have been a few Cirrus SR 22 wheel fire incidents where and extended long taxi in very strong X winds required extended brake application that compromised the buna N orings with a wheel pant fire resulting when the 5606 leaked onto the hot disks.

Do your own research carefully but as an experimental you can decide accordingly.

YMMV
Just an FYI, Flash point of Royco 782 and Mobil 1 ATF appear to be about the same 445F/220C.

http://www.qclubricants.com/royco/royco_782.htm
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Walt Aronow, Dallas, TX (52F) RV7A, IO360, C/S, 1500+hrs

EXP Aircraft Services LLC
Specializing in RV Condition Inspections, Maintenance, Avionics Upgrades
Dynamic Prop Balancing, Pitot-Static Altmeter/Transponder Certification
FAA Certified Repair Station, AP/IA/FCC GROL, EAA Technical Counselor
Authorized Garmin G3X Dealer/Installer
Website: ExpAircraft.com, Email: walt@expaircraft.com, Cell: 972-746-5154
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