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  #11  
Old 11-29-2016, 07:35 PM
AviatorJ AviatorJ is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Oklahoma City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ERushing View Post
I noticed that you don't have a transponder on your equipment list. Check out the Garmin GTX45R.
Hey Eric, yah the 45R was on my list, just didn't make it to the drawing. Will swap that out now with the 20a since I'm removing that. Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTurner View Post
May I kindly suggest that this approach is backwards? e.g., I would suggest determining what you need, what you want, and then determining how (or if!) you hook them together.
That's sort of what my approach to this exercise is. By doing the drawing and later the schematic I hope to educate myself on the particulars of equipment and then determine if it's something I want or need.

I really appreciate all the input. Already have revised the drawing three times.
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  #12  
Old 11-30-2016, 08:00 PM
DRMA DRMA is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Sugar Land, TX
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Justin,

I'm at about the same stage as you are, defining my avionics and antenna locations in order to install the antennas prior to closing up the cabin top and forward tailcone top skin.

A couple of observations regarding your layout drawing:

You show the magnetometer located just behind the baggage bulkhead, but also show an air conditioner evaporator and I presume the fan that goes with it in the same area. This is likely not a good strategy, as the fan motor will create significant electromagnetic interference (EMI). I am also installing the Airflow Systems A/C, and after some research and communications with the G3X support have decided to install the magnetometer in the wing tip rather than the tail cone.

You show your roll trim servo in the left wing, but the roll AP servo in the right wing. Since you are using Garmin AP servos, they need to be connected to the trim servos, as the Garmin servo drives the trim servos. You might want to consider installing the trim servo in the right wing instead, in order to keep the wiring short and simpler.

I have placed my Nav antenna into the top of the vertical stabilizer, using a RAMI cat whiskers antenna. It fits nicely there without some of the issues others have reported with a wingtip nav antenna.

I don't see your GPS antennas shown on the diagram. You will need 2, and they need to be mounted on the top of the plane. Also, in checking with Van's builder support, they do not recommend mounting antennas to the fiberglass cabin top, nor adding any holes to the cabin top that are not shown on the plans. However, you should be able to place both GPS antennas on the tail cone top skins, and offset them on opposite sides of the centerline.

I'm also placing a Com antenna on the tail cone top, and the ELT antenna, as I believe there is room with adequate spacing between each antenna. My second Com antenna will be located on the bottom of the tail cone, a couple feet behind the A/C condenser scoop. I'm also planning the Transponder and ADS-B antennas on the bottom about where you show them, under the front seats on opposite sides of the aircraft.

Hope this is of some help. If you would like to "discuss" the A/C installation (I'm running the hoses down the sides, not in the center tunnel, and am in the process of installing the system components), or other ideas since you and I seem to be outfitting our 10s in similar ways, I suggest you send me an email.

Cheers,
Dave Macdonald

RV-10 Finishing Kit received Nov. 23, 2016
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  #13  
Old 11-30-2016, 08:41 PM
AviatorJ AviatorJ is offline
 
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Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 520
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Dave-

Thanks for the plethora of information, very helpful! I had that same concern about the magnometer. Since you've done the footwork I will now install it in the left wingtip since I have an antenna in the right.

I've been talking to Bill about the AC. Saw Someone's pictures where they ran the hoses down the starboard side bulkhead. What's I'm not 100% on is how they go from the tunnel to the bulkhead... maybe inbetween the wing spars?

Wasn't aware that the Autopilot and trim servos connected to each other. That's an easy fix since the aileron trim assembly is just on an access panel.

On the GPS antennas I know I need one for the GTN 650 but what is the other for? Don't know the spacing requirements but if they both fit back there then I'll do the same as you.

On a side note what's the best practice on power wire separation? The way I understand it is audio and lighting should use shielded wire/cable and that power wires though have some distance from audio or antenna cables/wires. So do most people run their power and grounds down say the left side conduit and any signal based wiring down the right side?
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  #14  
Old 11-30-2016, 10:36 PM
DRMA DRMA is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Sugar Land, TX
Posts: 145
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Justin,

The second GPS antenna is for the G3X, as it needs it's own antenna. It also provides for XM reception by the G3X if you decide to subscribe. The G5 antenna is built in and so shouldn't require a separate antenna.

Separating high current power wires from communication and avionics wires is best practice. The more separation the better, but you should be able to run them down the same side so long as they are run in separate holes rather than bundled together with the other wires. Running them on opposite sides would be ideal, but may not be easily done and shouldn't be required.

As for the A/C hoses, I am keeping them entirely out of the tunnel. I've been working with Bill to replace the Z fittings with 90 deg. fittings to allow the condenser connections to come directly up into the space on each side of the tunnel under the rear seats. From there the right side hose runs back thru the lightening holes to the evaporator/dryer, and the left side hose runs under the seat to the left side wall and from there forward to the firewall bulkhead. There is another hose from the evaporator that runs up the right side wall to the bulkhead. I've just finished fabricating and installing access plates in the rear seat floors to allow future access to the fittings without having to drill out all the rivets and remove the seat floors.

Dave
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  #15  
Old 12-21-2016, 04:57 PM
AviatorJ AviatorJ is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 520
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Thanks for those who have sent me or made available their schematics to download. It's interesting to see everyone's approach and I find one thing for certain is there's no one right way to wire up a plane.

I've moved away from using both the VPX pro and a Garmin GAD 27. I've decided to go with the VPX only since there are some duplicating functions and I want the electronic circuit breakers. I know the benefits are all debatable but there are a number of core functions to the VPX that I want... and I learned the one feature on the GAD 27 I really wanted were the discrete inputs which apparently you can do with the G3X alone, just 4 inputs vs 10.

Now I'm working on my initial set of diagrams to include my panel layout. As I go through this process I write down questions I have and then research for the answers. Some of these are still opened and wanted to reach out to see what others have done.

Discrete Inputs - For those using a Garmin product, or something similar that allows customized alarms what have people used? I can select 4 items and I'm thinking these; Doors & fuel pump... not sure what else I would be interested in seeing on the screen.. maybe the status of the cowl flaps or ram air (Putting a Rod Bower ram air system in)... but I'll have switches below that to see if those are opened or closed, so may be over complicating things with that.

Battery Bus - Was thinking about putting in a battery bus (Fuse block) right off of the battery contactor where the battery connects. I could use this for anything I either wanted redundancy on if the VPX or something like the contactor goes south, or something I might want to turn on and off regardless of the Master position. An example maybe the dome lights.

On the 10 the battery and it's contactor is in the rear. So I believe if I wanted to mount the fuse block up front I would need another 4 awg wire to run up front. Or inversely mount the block in the back but then I would have to run multiple small wires up front for the devices.

Is this how must people with battery buses handled it? Wasn't sure if you could add a diode or resister or something to reduce the voltage and run a smaller say 18 awg wire from the contactor to the block. Might be over thinking it.

I might end up just hanging accessory fuse blocks off a VPX power output having it always on (When master on) and putting the devices off that. That's already sort of my plane for a lot of the extra servos for things like cowl flaps, oil damper, ect.
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RV-10 Quickbuild 'Engine, Avionics and Interior'
http://operationrv10.blogspot.com/
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  #16  
Old 12-21-2016, 11:29 PM
Evolution10 Evolution10 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: oregon
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In may -10, I Have my AC in the tail aft of bulkhead and the magnetometer in the tail (in the the rear of Aircraft). All Garmin (dual G3x,750, etc...) no interference from the AC. All work fine. Solid, stable, fantastic!
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  #17  
Old 12-22-2016, 12:04 PM
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NovaBandit NovaBandit is offline
 
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Location: Hastings, MN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AviatorJ View Post
Discrete Inputs - For those using a Garmin product, or something similar that allows customized alarms what have people used? I can select 4 items and I'm thinking these; Doors & fuel pump... not sure what else I would be interested in seeing on the screen.. maybe the status of the cowl flaps or ram air (Putting a Rod Bower ram air system in)... but I'll have switches below that to see if those are opened or closed, so may be over complicating things with that.
My 4 discrete inputs are:
Fuel Pump
Door switches
Heated Pitot annunciation
TOGA

You can also use one of the voltage sense pins as a "discrete". That's what I did for my cowl flaps. If that pin has over 6 volts, it "warns" that the cowl flaps are open. Below 6 volts, no warning. The only draw back is that on my electrical page, there is a cowl flaps gauge... but I just ignore that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AviatorJ View Post
Battery Bus - Was thinking about putting in a battery bus (Fuse block) right off of the battery contactor where the battery connects. I could use this for anything I either wanted redundancy on if the VPX or something like the contactor goes south, or something I might want to turn on and off regardless of the Master position. An example maybe the dome lights.


I might end up just hanging accessory fuse blocks off a VPX power output having it always on (When master on) and putting the devices off that. That's already sort of my plane for a lot of the extra servos for things like cowl flaps, oil damper, ect.
That's what I did. I hung an 8 circuit accessory fuse block off one of the VPX circuits. I have it come on with my avionics master switch. I put things of lower importance on that block (like cabin lighting, lemo power, etc)
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  #18  
Old 12-22-2016, 12:30 PM
AviatorJ AviatorJ is offline
 
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Location: Oklahoma City
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Thanks for the feedback Ed. I would of assumed that Pitot Heat on would of been a default input already. Either way I'll make sure I have it.

Was there any particular reason you tied your fuse block to the Avionics vs the Master switch? My thought it I would want power to the cowl flaps, oil damper ect before I start the engine... assuming I wait until after I start the plane to turn on avionics.
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  #19  
Old 12-28-2016, 06:42 PM
AviatorJ AviatorJ is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Oklahoma City
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Almost a month to the day since I started this thread I have my first power distribution schematic draft and thought I would share it. Drawing it out in Visio really enhanced the learning process, forcing me to research components and wiring practices. I did a lot of reading, reached out to a number of folks and made countless revisions to get to this point.

Having it in an electronic format makes it easy to change, add or remove things as my ideas change or new products are released. Then obviously having it updated will help in the inevitable event that I will need to troubleshoot something after I'm flying.

There are a lot of devices on this project but I feel I have good balance between features, simplicity and redundancy. My only real mission requirement is enough power to get me out of IMC if something goes wonky.

I'm also going traditional magnetos with the hope of one day seeing the 6 cylinder P/Emags... but until then I'm most comfortable with traditional ignition systems. This makes complete electrical failure even less of a concern.

The centralized distribution method I'm going with is a VPX Pro. Their handy online planner tool was the first thing I started messing with. Easy to get in there, dump some equipment on it and tweak it around. I actually went back and forth between the planner and my drawing quite a bit. I think this is a dynamic link so will probably stay the same throughout my build.
Vertical Power Planner

Keep in mind the schematic is a work in progress so missing some details as I work through them. The bulk of it is there to a point if I was ordering avionics today this is the route I would go.



Happy New Years!
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RV-10 Quickbuild 'Engine, Avionics and Interior'
http://operationrv10.blogspot.com/
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Last edited by AviatorJ : 01-13-2017 at 08:03 AM.
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  #20  
Old 12-28-2016, 09:31 PM
Mich48041 Mich48041 is offline
 
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Location: Riley TWP MI
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The alternator field and air conditioner wire sizes could be much smaller.
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