VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

  #11  
Old 10-05-2017, 10:43 AM
rleffler's Avatar
rleffler rleffler is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Delaware, OH (KDLZ)
Posts: 3,637
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by logansc View Post
Maybe I don't understand how this is supposed to work at all, so pardon me if this question proves it!

1. I can generate a flight plan including an approach procedure on my 530W and xfer it to my 5600. On the 5600 it shows up as an alphanumeric list showing all the waypoints but I cannot get it to display on the Map on the 5600. What am I doing wrong and what don't I understand?

2. I cannot find anywhere a comprehensive tutorial either in writing or in a video that shows in detail the 5600 "buttonology" associated with generating and flying a complex flight plan (departure procedures, en route, approach plate usage, and LPV or similar final approach. Can all of that only be done on my 530? As above, I can't even "follow along" on my 5600 except in a general way, without routing, distances, bearing, etc. Any help there?


Lee...
1. It's hard to provide advice without understand more about your installation. Do you have both ARINC and RS232 lines going from your 530 to your 5600? You'll need the ARINC module to make this work.

If you're not seeing the magenta line on your map, it sounds like the ARINC data isn't getting to your EFIS. I'm assuming that the 530 is defined as GNAV1 and you have the map src set to GNAV1, correct?

While you may be able to transfer your 530 flight plan to your internal 5600 flight plan, you really don't want to do that. It will contain your enroute data, but won't have the approach data. You will want to use your 530 as source for the entire flight to save have to switch batch just to fly the approach.

2. I have a 650, which from an interface perspective to the EFIS functions similarly as the 530. Assuming that you have the 530w, it has the capability to do all you want. You just need to figure out that the installation is correct and configured appropriately.

I don't recall on the 530, but on the 650 there is an ARINC option in the diagnostic mode. This will allow you to monitor the flags and data being sent on the ARINC bus. If you are seeing all 0's, something is wrong.

There are some basic procedures in the operating manual. Rob also has quite a few YouTube video that shows him flying approaches. They are a good place to start.

Since you aren't seeing the magenta lines on you map, my assumption is that you have an installation/configuration issue. Once you identify that issue, then start on the process/buttonology learning.
__________________
Bob Leffler
N410BL - RV10 Flying
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-05-2017, 03:26 PM
logansc's Avatar
logansc logansc is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 541
Default

Bob: Thanks so much for checking in---I greatly appreciate your input. I just came back from a quick test flight wherein I queued up a flight, including an approach, to a nearby airfield. I did not xfer the fpl over to the 5600 (on purpose). I took off and then shut down the 5600 (wanted engine info for t/o). My autopilot is a Gemini (not one of the ones the manual for the 5600 says is supported). The 530 would not drive the Gemini; indeed, it would not go to GPSS mode at all. Suggests to me that we wired the 530 ARINC output directly to the 5600 as I understood we thought we were supposed to. I don't know if I have RS 232 data also---I will check.

I then turned on the 5600 and transferred the same 530 fpl to it. The 5600 FPL page displayed the entire 530 flight plan including the approach. Up until then, I had never been able to get any FPL page to be drawn graphically though, even though (I believe) I tried every possible combination of button sequencing. I had never, however, turned on the AP controller (since I understood the Gemini is not supported via the 5600 AP controller). The 5600 will drive the Gemini just fine (using the controls on the Gemini itself) on "direct" flights generated in the 5600 itself (not transferred over). Anyway, something I pushed after bringing up the 5600 internal AP controller suddenly generated a beautiful graphic display of my entire flight plan. However (wouldn't you know), the autopilot would not track it. Still don't know if I'm supposed to control the Gemini from its control knob or from the AP controller in the 5600. Whatever it is and whatever the buttonology, today wasn't the day.

If any of this helps, please let me know what you think!


Lee...
__________________
Lee Logan
Ridgeland, SC (3J1)
F1 Rocket #160 flying

Last edited by logansc : 10-05-2017 at 03:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-05-2017, 04:30 PM
Raymo's Avatar
Raymo Raymo is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Richmond Hill, GA (KLHW)
Posts: 1,302
Default

Lee has the ARINC module, which is def by the 530 and split out to the 5600 and Gemini AP (if my memory serves). Most of this was prewired by SteinAir. The connection to the 530W was done by me to an available RS232 out.

The AFS manuals are not quite as clear as the Dynon manuals when it comes to this type of setup.
__________________
Ray
RV-7A - Slider - N495KL - First flt 27 Jan 17
O-360-A4M w/ AFP FM-150 FI, 1 PMag, Vetterman Trombone Exh, SkyTech starter,
PlanePower Alt, Catto 3 blade NLE, FlightLines Interior, James cowl & plenum
All lines by TSFlightLines (AKA Hoser)
NSDQ

"The object of the game, gentlemen, is not to cheat death: the object is not to let him play."
Patrick Poteen, Sgt. U.S. Army


- - 2016/17 donation compliant - -
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-05-2017, 07:28 PM
rleffler's Avatar
rleffler rleffler is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Delaware, OH (KDLZ)
Posts: 3,637
Default

I have a AFS 5500, Gtn650, Vizion AP, and a Gemini PFD.

First, I would ask both AFS and Trutrak if they have specific sample schematics for the Gemini AP. My assumption from taking a quick look at the Gemini AP manual is that you would wire it just like you would a Vizion or AFS Pilot. Those sample schematics used to be on The AFS website. If they arenít on the new dynon site, I can email it to you.

The ARINC in/ out and one rs232 circuit from the 530 goes direct to the 5600. Then the Gemini is wired to the 5600via Arinc and a Rs232. Then the AP is controlled from the AP button on the 5600.

If you want to email the schematic you wired your panel, Iíd be more than happy to review it.

It sounds like Arinc data isnít getting to the EFIS, which in turn isnít getting to the AP. It could be due to a bad installation (wrong pins wired), an open circuit, or an Arinc module not working.
__________________
Bob Leffler
N410BL - RV10 Flying
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-05-2017, 07:33 PM
rleffler's Avatar
rleffler rleffler is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Delaware, OH (KDLZ)
Posts: 3,637
Default

I have a AFS 5500, Gtn650, Vizion AP, and a Gemini PFD.

First, I would ask both AFS and Trutrak if they have specific sample schematics for the Gemini AP. My assumption from taking a quick look at the Gemini AP manual is that you would wire it just like you would a Vizion or AFS Pilot. Those sample schematics used to be on The AFS website. If they arenít on the new dynon site, I can email it to you.

The ARINC in/ out and one rs232 circuit from the 530 goes direct to the 5600. Then the Gemini is wired to the 5600via Arinc and a Rs232. Then the AP is controlled from the AP button on the 5600.

If you want to email the schematic you wired your panel, Iíd be more than happy to review it.

It sounds like Arinc data isnít getting to the EFIS, which in turn isnít getting to the AP. It could be due to a bad installation (wrong pins wired), an open circuit, or an Arinc module not working.
__________________
Bob Leffler
N410BL - RV10 Flying
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-06-2017, 03:07 PM
logansc's Avatar
logansc logansc is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 541
Default

Bob: Again, thanks for the helpful information. I'll get my schematic to you as soon as I can get it back from another who is checking on it. I think you may be right. My avionics buddy and I are going over it again this weekend. Maybe we'll have a better picture of where we are after that.


Lee...
__________________
Lee Logan
Ridgeland, SC (3J1)
F1 Rocket #160 flying
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-06-2017, 04:09 PM
N402RH's Avatar
N402RH N402RH is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 594
Default

Give me a call to go over how it works, I am confused about you saying you are or are not transferring the flight plan from the 530W?

Your EFIS CDI source should be GNAV1 (GPS Navigator). When you have selected GNAV1 there is no transferring required, the active flight plan in the 530W should just appear in the AF-5600 FPL page. Things to remember:

1. The 530W will not accept a change in the flight plan from the EFIS, all changes must be done on the 530W.

2. You cannot edit the flight plan on the EFIS since it is coming from the 530W and it has the master copy.

3. The Autopilot control has nothing to do with flight plan drawing.

4. The AF-5600 can control the Gemini, including engage and disengage.

5. if your CDI source has the option of GPS1 it is wired and/or configured wrong.

To avoid a lot of confusion send me the schematics and call me from your plane.
(503) 263-0037 ext 202

Rob@Advanced-Flight-Systems.com

Rob Hickman
Advanced Flight Systems Inc.

Last edited by N402RH : 10-06-2017 at 04:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-06-2017, 04:38 PM
N402RH's Avatar
N402RH N402RH is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 594
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymo View Post
Lee has the ARINC module, which is def by the 530 and split out to the 5600 and Gemini AP (if my memory serves). Most of this was prewired by SteinAir. The connection to the 530W was done by me to an available RS232 out.

The AFS manuals are not quite as clear as the Dynon manuals when it comes to this type of setup.
http://dynonavionics.com/includes/guides/advanced/AF-5000%20Install%20Manual%20V5.4.pdf

Page 95 has the 430W/530W settings

Page 237-238 show how it should be wired if you are using the AF-ARINC module. These drawings are for the Trutrak AF-Pilot, the Gemini has the same pin numbers and should wire the same.

Rob Hickman
Advanced Flight Systems Inc.

Last edited by N402RH : 10-06-2017 at 04:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-06-2017, 07:22 PM
logansc's Avatar
logansc logansc is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 541
Default

Way cool, Rob. I'm quite certain most if not all of the confusion here is of my own doing, so I really appreciate the help.

I'll get back with you...


Lee...
__________________
Lee Logan
Ridgeland, SC (3J1)
F1 Rocket #160 flying
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-08-2017, 10:37 AM
logansc's Avatar
logansc logansc is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 541
Default

Okay: Hope this doesn't bore anyone who already understands all this, but for those like me who don't, Raymo and I finally got out on a good navigation test flight yesterday.

The point of sharing all of this is that there may be others who have kludged up systems like mine (I only did this to get ADSB-out; the 5600 EFIS is over and above). Unlike me, probably most people are buying fully integrated systems in the first place, whether AFS, Dynon, or Garmin, etc. and not trying to make a home-spun setup like mine behave correctly. A second problem is that I don’t know all the terms properly yet. Rob: As a result, I misnamed my Course CDI source, it is GNAV1, not GPS1. Another was that I was not aware of how the relationship between the GPS navigator, the 5600, and the two different autopilot controllers is supposed to work in my non-standard setup. Regardless, we made some progress on this flight.

Basically, as I now realize and as my airplane appears to be wired, the TSO'd nav box (430/530/etc) is the normal source for all complex flight plans. That is all except the 5600 direct-to option (excepting the ForeFlight option for the moment). The 530 can provide fltplans to the 5600 and through the 5600 to the TruTrak Gemini. The 5600 can drive the Gemini itself on a direct-to flight but not on plans transferred from the 530. The 530 must drive any fltplan transferred to the 5600 from the 530 itself. If I've got any of this wrong, someone please say so because this is for sure how it seems to work on my system. Note: I understand the 5600 AP will also drive the Gemini on any fltplan loaded directly into INTFP through ForeFlight, including complex flt plans. I haven’t tried that yet.

And finally, I discovered that I had missed the requirement in the 5600 Pilot's Guide to select Course [CRS] in order to complete the process of transferring the 530 fltplan to the 5600 Map view. After that, my displays seemed to be working as in the Pilot Manual.

So...yesterday with a flight to a nearby airport and its approach firmly in the 530, we set sail. Sure enough, no amount of fiddling with the internal 5600 autopilot would get the system to fly the fltplan (we were still learning at this point). This attempt was with the Gemini “on” but not “engaged”. Then we engaged the Gemini with the 5600 AP “off”, and just as if it were connected directly to the 530, it came up in GPSS. Voila! For the first time ever, the airplane turned to intercept the course to the first fix in the approach. It wandered about it bit in altitude though, but then on a hunch we adjusted the upper altitude setting on the 5600 AP and engaged it (“altitude” on the 5600AP) and the Gemini settled right down and tracked the approach plate required altitude smoothly. So?…It takes the lateral input from the 530 (flight plan) AND the 5600 (altitude setting and controller) for the Gemini to properly function in my configuration? I would not have thought that---primarily because I understood that the 5600 AP was out of the loop in my configuration. Maybe I could have used the VS and altitude settings on the Gemini to do the same thing, but it is certainly easier to do on the 5600 and appears to work well.

The big test came when we hit the first fix. For the first time ever, the autopilot turned the airplane in accordance with the fltplan. Hoorah! I did not detect an “early” turn but it wasn’t much of a turn. Next turn was 60+ degrees however, and sure enough the autopilot early-turned it. Things were getting better all the time. This put us on course for the FAF. Throughout (so far) the airplane was locked onto to the approach plate altitude (1,900’). All was going smoothly, with the Gemini (as usual) “demanding” trim changes as I adjusted the Rocket’s speed slowly downwards. The 530 provided all the correct warnings, switched to LPV, and displayed the glide slope bug on the 5600, but the Gemini never lowered the nose at the FAF. Huh? It overflew the airport right down the runway at 1,900’. Darn! Re-engaged the fltplan back direct to the middle fix (to save time). The Gemini flew direct to the selected fix, made in interestingly tight left reversal (which we were warned of in advance by the 530) and re-intercepted the approach plate course back toward the FAF again. This time when we hit the FAF, the Gemini commanded the nose down and with a modest power reduction, we slide down the glide slope like we were on rails! Hands off to minimums (set on the EFIS) and called out by the 5600 audio. The Gemini then leveled us off (right on minimums). Success!

We ran it a third time, again with no problems, so we’re calling that a win. Still don’t know why it didn’t work on the first try. Weather is shaky today, but I’ll be off tomorrow to try holding, VOR/ILS, etc. And, even though it’s the reason for this system upgrade in the first place, we still have problems with traffic and ADSB weather. We think that is likely a “box” problem with our new hardware. Time will tell.

Someone tell me if any of this doesn’t sound right. It looks like the 530 to Gemini connection is functioning properly, but additional functionality is available through 5600 EFIS/AP options (altitude hold, level off at minimums, etc) which are provided to the Gemini not by the 530 but by the 5600’s EFIS and AP controller. These functions are apparently “layered” on top of traditional 530/Gemini functionality. Which ones that I haven’t tried yet will work and which won’t, I’m nowhere near through checking out. I’ll need a secretary to keep up with that I expect! Nevertheless, yesterdays flight seemed like a real breakthrough to me.

Thanks to everyone for the help provided!


Lee…
__________________
Lee Logan
Ridgeland, SC (3J1)
F1 Rocket #160 flying

Last edited by logansc : 10-08-2017 at 10:52 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:52 PM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.