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  #11  
Old 12-18-2009, 05:50 PM
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MartySantic MartySantic is offline
 
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Location: Davenport, IA
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Default Taking the Milkhouse Heater One More Step

Added a thermostat. Am very happy with the way the pre-heater turned out. About $150 in parts. The change to the SCAT tubing from the furnace flex-duct was very worthwhile. (Much more flexible). A bit pricey at $20 for 2 feet but it works very well. See my blogpost. All parts were available locally, with the exception of the 6" SCAT tubing which I ordered from Wicks.

Takes about 2 hours to bring EVERYTHING in the cowling up to 75 degF, including the oil in the reservoir. (even at 20 degF ambient).

http://martysrv12.blogspot.com/2009/...-hope-for.html
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Last edited by MartySantic : 12-18-2009 at 06:04 PM.
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  #12  
Old 12-18-2009, 05:52 PM
Kyle Boatright Kyle Boatright is online now
 
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Location: Atlanta, GA
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Default

On cold days (cold is relative, I consider 35F cold), I use 2 blowdriers and a Reiff Hotstrip. The blowdriers go into the cowl inlets, which are fitted with foam plugs (with holes in 'em for the blowdriers)...

With 20-30 minutes of this, the engine comes right to life when I crank it and the oil temp is usually 70+F so pressure comes right up. The CHT's are usually off the peg too.

And I do tend to hang around, just in case. One thing I do to mitigate the blow drier melt-down possibility is I don't put them on the highest heat or fan setting. I figure I'm running 'em at 1000 or 1200 watts, instead of 1500 or 1750.
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  #13  
Old 12-18-2009, 06:48 PM
the_other_dougreeves the_other_dougreeves is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pierre smith View Post
...is to ensure quick starts and good cam lobe/lifter/cylinder splash lubrication at startup. The hair dryer system does not address this problem...you still have thick/non-splash oil, only easy starting because of the warm cylinders.
My understanding of the Rotax is that the bigger issue is making sure that the cylinders are warmish to get quick starts and eliminate kickback during starting, which is really bad on the gearbox and can cause very early failure. Getting the oil warm is good and important, but less so under mild conditions. More preheat is better, I agree, but I don't think the 912 is like a Formula1 engine where all the fluids need to be close to operating temperature before starting.

The whole point of this was to see if it worked enough to preheat under mild conditions (~35F), and I think the answer is yes. For colder temps, I'd want something more effective.

TODR
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  #14  
Old 12-18-2009, 08:18 PM
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David-aviator David-aviator is offline
 
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Location: Chesterfield, Missouri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reiff Preheat Systems View Post
If you don't mind a suggestion... I know there are a lot of ways people preheat their airplanes but I'd suggest that consideration be given to the intended use of the device. In the case of a hair dyer, the designers intended it would be used for maybe a couple of minutes at a time, once per day, and last maybe 5 yrs. That's a design lifespan of perhaps 50 hrs. If you run it continuously for hours at a time as an engine preheater it probably won't hold up well, and when it fails I'd want to be there, especially if it's hanging on the airplane. I'm not saying don't use it... just stick around and keep an eye on it. Don't leave it run unattended all night or anything like that. If that's what you want to do I suggest it would be safer to get a heater that's designed for continuous use, like a space heater or an industrial grade heat gun.

Also, anything you can do to seal and insulate the engine compartment to prevent leakage of the warm air will improve the effectiveness of whatever heater you use. A moving blanket over the nose helps a lot.

As far as what works better in harsh conditions, that's a matter of watts and heating time, not name and price.
Bob,

I did not know about your product until today. Sure looks like it is the cat's meow for preheat.

It would appear a "standard" system would work just fine on the 0360, or would the 100 watt rings without the sump heater be just as effective?

Not sure what I am reading with regard to heating times and temp rises on the chart. Are the 100 watt ring times with or without a sump heater with regard to oil temp rise?

Thanks. I have a BD coming up and my wife always wants to know what I need.
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  #15  
Old 12-18-2009, 08:47 PM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
 
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Location: Gloversville, NY
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Default Reiff Systems

I've been using a Reiff preheat system on my Arrow for years. Put it on a timer to go on 2 or 3 hours before flight, throw an old bedspread over the cowl, and it starts easily in the coldest of temps.

I'll be ordering a Reiff system for the RV-12 before the first winter. Why play around with Rube Goldberg arrangements on a $25K engine?

BTW, it was a brisk -13F here in the Adirondacks this morning, so this is a subject near and dear to my heart!
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  #16  
Old 12-19-2009, 08:04 AM
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pierre smith pierre smith is offline
 
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Default There's another benefit....

Quote:
Originally Posted by David-aviator View Post
Bob,

I did not know about your product until today. Sure looks like it is the cat's meow for preheat.


Thanks. I have a BD coming up and my wife always wants to know what I need.

....and that is that after an overnight heating, the case and the cylinders are warm to the touch since all that aluminum is bolted together and heated by the warm oil. Makes for really easy starting and an instant 100 degree oil temp. Just buy the sump pad heating system unless you live in the north or Canada where it gets around zero, or less

Best,
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  #17  
Old 12-19-2009, 09:55 AM
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David-aviator David-aviator is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pierre smith View Post
....and that is that after an overnight heating, the case and the cylinders are warm to the touch since all that aluminum is bolted together and heated by the warm oil. Makes for really easy starting and an instant 100 degree oil temp. Just buy the sump pad heating system unless you live in the north or Canada where it gets around zero, or less

Best,
Thanks. What you say makes good sense. I called Bob and the temp rise for the sump heater alone was measured with a 6 cylinder and it may be better with the 4 as there is less oil to heat.

I ordered the 200 watt HotStrip System. I'm sure Mr. Lycoming will like it very much as opposed to a 25F OAT cold start which I have been doing lately. The HOTSTRIP can be hooked up to a timer to come on at mid night and by dawn you're ready to blast off with a happy engine.

For $169, it is a very good deal.
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  #18  
Old 12-19-2009, 10:16 AM
Steve Steve is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Roy, Utah
Posts: 1,063
Default milkhouse heater revisited

I added a timer to my system thinking 24/7 heater operation would be too costly. I set the timer the day before to come on 2-3 hours before the ETD.
I use the same gray colored 1500W heater and 6 inch duct and "cowl adapter" as pictured in a previous post.
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  #19  
Old 12-19-2009, 12:56 PM
avi8tor50 avi8tor50 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 231
Default

For those of you who are not in the frigid north but still need some preheat
for a few months out of the year and want an alternative to the hairdryer
technique you might consider this:

Got a Stanley Utility heater at Lowe's (model 675900) for $49. It is angled up
just perfectly so that you can make an adapter shroud out of several layers of aluminum foil that tapers down from the heater outlet to Van's standard
scat tubing (which I had laying around). Taped the scat tubing to the shroud, put the other end up into the engine compartment by the exhaust
pipes. Run continuously for 45 min to 1 hr with cowl plugs and blanket over
the cowl. Just enough time to get some coffee, check weather, preflight, and chat with whomever is around. In 35 deg F outside temps got the oil up to 59 deg. Engine starts first time.

Peter K
9A 102 hrs
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  #20  
Old 12-19-2009, 01:02 PM
Mich48041 Mich48041 is online now
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Riley TWP MI
Posts: 2,510
Default Automotive Pad Heaters?

I know a guy who connected a pager to a relay that turned on a timer that controlled the pre-heater. From home he called his pager and everything was warm when he arrived at the airport.
Heaters located outside of the cowling are ok for occasional use even though they are not very efficient. They must continuously heat the cold outside air. And heated air inside of the cowling is exhausted. I admire the ingenuity of others who have adapted cheap off-the-shelf heaters. Permanently mounted heaters have the advantages of being more efficient and of always being available, even away from the home airport. It is too bad that heaters made specifically for aircraft engines are so expensive. Has anyone tried pad heaters designed for truck or automotive use? Below are links to examples.
Joe
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000I8TQD6/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lp o-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000I8YPQ4&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX 0DER&pf_rd_r=0S49THE47T3MS2SZJRXQ

http://www.dieselproducts.com/cgi-bi...e/storepro.php

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...9139_200339139
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