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View Poll Results: Rudder it out!
Build it sleek and sexy the way the almighty Vans intended! 9 60.00%
Go big or go home! Think about all the extra aluminum you’ll have down the road! 6 40.00%
Build both and sell me one! 0 0%
Voters: 15. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11  
Old 10-09-2017, 11:25 AM
jay bell jay bell is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Olds, AB
Posts: 78
Default

Congrats on the new project

I have both a 9 and 8 rudder for my 7A. The 9 rudder has more power, but felt heavy in comparison to the light aileron and elevator forces so I tried the 8 version. The 8 feels lighter, more in tune with the other controls. The 8 rudder takes a little bit longer to initiate or recover from a spin, not as long as a basic trainer, just not as instantaneous as the 9 rudder. Lastly, the 9 rudder provides better yaw stability while cruising in turbulent air. With the 8 rudder, I do a light dance on the pedals during turbulence to improve passenger comfort, the 9 rudder only requires even pressure on both pedals to stiffen the tail. Both rudders work well for crosswind landings.

My plane has light nose due to fixed pitch composite prop, lightweight starter and alternator. I am saving up for a CS prop, and once I add that weight to the nose and HP to the takeoff roll, I think the 9 rudder will work better

Cheers,
Jay
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  #12  
Old 10-09-2017, 03:33 PM
grubbat's Avatar
grubbat grubbat is offline
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Ga
Posts: 508
Default Agree

I tend to agree that there isn't any known evidence with the zipper trailing edge rudder. However, data does indicate the folded edge rudder tends to stay with the AC more often than the zippered trailing edge rudder. Once its unzipped, well, its over.
Stay within design limits, and it should be ok.

Seems like the choice is either going with the zipper for a slightly faster spin recovery or go with the folded for more margin. Zipper head or folded head.

Good luck with your new project and hope you have lots of fun!

cj


Quote:
Originally Posted by JonJay View Post
A few pilots grossly exceeded VNE. They happen to have been in 7's. Thus far, there is no evidence of any problem with the 7's rudder.
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Craig

RV-3 Sold
RV-6a Sold
RV-9 Built & Flying
Twin Comanche Flying
RV-10 Thinking about it...
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  #13  
Old 10-09-2017, 03:54 PM
Ryano Ryano is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Seattle
Posts: 32
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jay bell View Post
Congrats on the new project

I have both a 9 and 8 rudder for my 7A. The 9 rudder has more power, but felt heavy in comparison to the light aileron and elevator forces so I tried the 8 version. The 8 feels lighter, more in tune with the other controls. The 8 rudder takes a little bit longer to initiate or recover from a spin, not as long as a basic trainer, just not as instantaneous as the 9 rudder. Lastly, the 9 rudder provides better yaw stability while cruising in turbulent air. With the 8 rudder, I do a light dance on the pedals during turbulence to improve passenger comfort, the 9 rudder only requires even pressure on both pedals to stiffen the tail. Both rudders work well for crosswind landings.

My plane has light nose due to fixed pitch composite prop, lightweight starter and alternator. I am saving up for a CS prop, and once I add that weight to the nose and HP to the takeoff roll, I think the 9 rudder will work better

Cheers,
Jay
Thank you! This was exactly the insight I was looking for.
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Orphaned -7 empennage kit purchased! 9/15/2017
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  #14  
Old 10-09-2017, 09:20 PM
griffg griffg is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 11
Default RV-9 Rudder

If you go with the RV-9 Rudder make your F-792 Rudder Stops as per my drawing below. I originally made my stops as per the Van's drawing but had to redesign them to achieve the correct rudder maximum deflection.

Remember to leave an additional 1/16" material on the contact face as you can trim it later to achieve the correct deflection, but you can't put it back on.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/141779426@N07/25775267443

https://www.flickr.com/photos/141779426@N07/26105124980

Welcome to the RV family and enjoy the building process.
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  #15  
Old 10-10-2017, 10:16 PM
Ryano Ryano is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Seattle
Posts: 32
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by griffg View Post
If you go with the RV-9 Rudder make your F-792 Rudder Stops as per my drawing below. I originally made my stops as per the Van's drawing but had to redesign them to achieve the correct rudder maximum deflection.

Remember to leave an additional 1/16" material on the contact face as you can trim it later to achieve the correct deflection, but you can't put it back on.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/141779426@N07/25775267443

https://www.flickr.com/photos/141779426@N07/26105124980

Welcome to the RV family and enjoy the building process.
Thanks for the info.... I'm likely going to buildup a internal rudder stop, so I'm wondering if there is also a difference there as well.
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Orphaned -7 empennage kit purchased! 9/15/2017
2017 Donation paid...
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  #16  
Old 10-10-2017, 10:36 PM
Ryano Ryano is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Seattle
Posts: 32
Default

Thank you all for the great information! After giving it some thought, I'm going to build both rudders and keep them all for #100.

At a minimum I'll have some awesome wall art.

Plan is to build the -7/8 rudder I have on hand now and get around to -9 when/if I have a dead spot and time to kill in my build.

Next set of questions are.....

1) Is the SB'd -9 rudder replacement a complete standalone build kit, or does it scavenge parts from the -7/8 rudder kit? If "Yes" what do I need to order to make the two complete rudders of -7/8 and -9 variety?

2)What issues might I face switching out rudders during, and/or after, phase 1 testing? I would assume at a minimum a separate W&B would be needed for each configuration, but could I log/POH it as such that a "Hot Swap" would be a nonevent in the eyes of the FSDO?

(yes I'm aware that swapping a rudder is not an easy thing...)
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Practice Kit completed 2/19/2017
Tooling up for -7 empennage build.(99.8% tooled 9/16/2017)
Orphaned -7 empennage kit purchased! 9/15/2017
2017 Donation paid...
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  #17  
Old 10-10-2017, 10:53 PM
Ryano Ryano is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Seattle
Posts: 32
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_John View Post
I will let you know if I am ever in your town and take you for a ride in my 7. I get around pretty good in the summer months!

CJ
Please do! I show you the local sights and supply a place to stay if you don't mind sleeping under a uncompleted wing!
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Practice Kit completed 2/19/2017
Tooling up for -7 empennage build.(99.8% tooled 9/16/2017)
Orphaned -7 empennage kit purchased! 9/15/2017
2017 Donation paid...
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  #18  
Old 10-11-2017, 07:15 AM
BillL BillL is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
Posts: 4,006
Default

Swapping rudders should not be trouble after you have the experience. The rudder stop (external) might be the most trouble as the aft two rivets will be close to the VS spar. The 9/7 rudder kit is almost complete but will need counterweight, and pivot helm/lock nut. They can be removed from the original but I just purchased extra for easier comparison. Be sure you get the VS tip, rudder tip and lower fairing with the kit as well. A call to Vans will confirm.

Oh - just weight them and determine CG (hang from a string from two different points) to log the W&B difference.

Now go get that thing built!!
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Op Lims in hand 12-7-17
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