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  #11  
Old 09-25-2017, 04:01 PM
krw5927 krw5927 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Wichita, KS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gasman View Post
Do some thread searching.... I converted my 6A for under $200. I used Rapco discs, and made my own spacer from ACE hardware 1/4" alum bar stock. I did need a shim to move the wheel away from the pant bracket. It also requires you to install 1/4 inch longer pad plate bolts.

How well does it work? The brakes work great.... I have not had any fade. The disc at the bell shows no sign of heat. And the brake pads look like they are going to last at least twice as long.
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Originally Posted by scard View Post
This is the way to go...
Having just performed this myself before Oshkosh, I agree also!
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  #12  
Old 09-25-2017, 06:58 PM
whd721 whd721 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Beaverton, OR
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Found the Rapco site.
It is not apparent what the Rapco advantage is. The disc appears to a replacement for the Cleveland disc. The caliper is the existing Cleveland 30-9. I am interested in any improvement. Am I looking at the wrong disc?
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  #13  
Old 09-25-2017, 10:09 PM
krw5927 krw5927 is offline
 
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Location: Wichita, KS
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Originally Posted by whd721 View Post
Found the Rapco site.
It is not apparent what the Rapco advantage is. The disc appears to a replacement for the Cleveland disc. The caliper is the existing Cleveland 30-9. I am interested in any improvement. Am I looking at the wrong disc?
Upgrade kit 199-93 comes with thicker discs, part number 164-09900. These are thicker than stock and provide the benefits DanH mentioned above, not necessarily any advantage of one brand over another.

Following the lead of others, I purchased just the discs, made a new or additional spacer for the pads at the caliper to accommodate the thicker disc, bought longer caliper bolts to accommodate the spacer, and shimmed the wheel out on the axle slightly as required to get clearance between the thicker disc and the wheel pant.
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Last edited by krw5927 : 09-25-2017 at 10:11 PM.
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  #14  
Old 09-25-2017, 10:39 PM
gasman gasman is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sonoma County
Posts: 3,341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whd721 View Post
Found the Rapco site.
It is not apparent what the Rapco advantage is. The disc appears to a replacement for the Cleveland disc. The caliper is the existing Cleveland 30-9. I am interested in any improvement. Am I looking at the wrong disc?
The advantage is price..... Find and compare in A/C spruce catalog.

I will get the numbers of all the things that you need to make the change. I am out of town till the first. Maybe SCARD can jump in with some part numbers.

All part numbers are in past posts if you can find them.
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  #15  
Old 09-30-2017, 09:53 AM
blaplante blaplante is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 59
Default I did install the 199-93 upgrade

When I made my decision, I found that the FAR part 23 for certified planes explains how to calculate the minimum braking, specifically the Kinetic Energy absorption. The stock brakes (at Van's specified gross weight) meet the requirement easily. The spec is at 23.735.

So why did I upgrade? Because in my opinion, with a full castering nose wheel the guideline from the FAA isn't good enough. Their figuring is that braking will start at stall speed. What happens if you reject a takeoff at 70 mph? It exceeds the brake energy absorption capabilities by 16%. How about high altitude ops? What ground speed are you at when the airspeed is 70? Significantly more. The 199-93 kit gives a 32% improvement in absorption for a weight of about a pound. I've been happy with my brakes.

-Bryan
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  #16  
Old 10-01-2017, 02:31 PM
whd721 whd721 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 205
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I must not have the “Magic decoder ring”.

I have spent several hours searching the forum and have not found a thread that shows issues found with the installation. I have found the Rapco disc is a 164—09900, I think this disc is the same as the original Van’s disc except approximately 1/8” thicker. The shim required looks to be approximately the size of the machined face with two matching holes. However, note that ACS wants ~ $460 for a pair of these shims from Cleveland???? Why?

My concern is starting the process and then finding an issue with wheel spacing or some other interference that will take weeks to resolve. Photos could help.

For those that care;

The Van’s Cleveland disc is a 164-01700 0.182” thick new and 0.167” min.
The upgrade Rapco disc is a 164-09900 0.295” thick new and 0.275” min.

The difference between the Cleveland disc and the Rapco disc is 0.295- 0.182= 0.113 ~/+ to 0.125 for the shim.

Matco Brake liners are 0.186 thick new and 0.100 thick min.

Use Dow Corning #55 o-ring lube for the piston o-ring.

Use locktite C5A anti seize for the anchor bolts.
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As Bill Stout (designer of the Ford Trimotor) used to say, “Simplicate and add Lightness”
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  #17  
Old 10-02-2017, 12:36 AM
gasman gasman is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sonoma County
Posts: 3,341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whd721 View Post
I must not have the “Magic decoder ring”.

I have spent several hours searching the forum and have not found a thread that shows issues found with the installation. I have found the Rapco disc is a 164—09900, I think this disc is the same as the original Van’s disc except approximately 1/8” thicker. The shim required looks to be approximately the size of the machined face with two matching holes. However, note that ACS wants ~ $460 for a pair of these shims from Cleveland???? Why?

My concern is starting the process and then finding an issue with wheel spacing or some other interference that will take weeks to resolve. Photos could help.

For those that care;

The Van’s Cleveland disc is a 164-01700 0.182” thick new and 0.167” min.
The upgrade Rapco disc is a 164-09900 0.295” thick new and 0.275” min.

The difference between the Cleveland disc and the Rapco disc is 0.295- 0.182= 0.113 ~/+ to 0.125 for the shim.

Matco Brake liners are 0.186 thick new and 0.100 thick min.

Use Dow Corning #55 o-ring lube for the piston o-ring.

Use locktite C5A anti seize for the anchor bolts.
The shim needed is here..... It's an Arbor Shim https://www.grainger.com/product/PRE...rchQuery=5GA99

This should help also..... http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...3&postcount=18
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  #18  
Old 10-04-2017, 12:03 AM
whd721 whd721 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Beaverton, OR
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Gasman,

I think I have assembled my upgrade kit, discs are in hand, bolts here and I have Al 1/8" stock is waiting fabrication. The Arbor Shims arrive tomorrow.

One last question how did you adjust to insert the cotter key back, trim the VA-106 or re-drill the hole?
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As Bill Stout (designer of the Ford Trimotor) used to say, “Simplicate and add Lightness”
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  #19  
Old 10-04-2017, 01:02 AM
Larco Larco is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: DVT Phoenix
Posts: 916
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I carefully removed the shim thickness from the nut with the belt sander so everything fit including the cotter pin. IIRC it was .062
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  #20  
Old 10-04-2017, 06:51 AM
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scard scard is online now
 
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Location: Cedar Park, TX
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Originally Posted by Larco View Post
I carefully removed the shim thickness from the nut with the belt sander so everything fit including the cotter pin. IIRC it was .062
Yep. That. I did it with a lathe, but basic care with hand tools should work just fine.
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