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  #1  
Old 09-24-2017, 11:11 AM
whd721 whd721 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Beaverton, OR
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Default Cleveland upgrade kit 199-93

I just experienced the thrill of loss of braking on the right brake. Red 5606 dribbling everywhere. Cutting donuts at the hold short line WOO HOO!

Does anyone have experience/ opinions about the advertised Cleveland upgrade kit pn# 100-93?

It apparently improves braking capacity with new rotors and brake assemblies.

Thanks for input.
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Old 09-24-2017, 11:17 AM
whd721 whd721 is offline
 
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Default Cleveland upgrade kit 199-93

typeing error the kit is 199-93 not 100-93.
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As Bill Stout (designer of the Ford Trimotor) used to say, “Simplicate and add Lightness”
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  #3  
Old 09-24-2017, 11:58 AM
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DanH DanH is offline
 
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Opinions vary of course, but having flown them both ways, I think the 199 kit is a BIG plus on an A-model.

Brake disks are an energy storage device. The disc in the 199 kit is 0.250" thicker, thus able to store more heat before reaching critical temperature.

There is probably a certification standard, but for our purposes, "critical temperature" can be defined two ways. One might be the point where brake fade is becoming excessive. In this regard the 199 kit just feels good...great brakes to a full stop

The other is when the disk is hot enough to push the inboard pad, piston, and o-ring temperature above 250~300. The standard neoprene o-ring dies a quick death, and leaves you parked in a red puddle, or worse.

Two downsides. The kit makes the caliper assembly 1/4" wider, so it may contact the wheel pant. And the kit adds about 1 lb.
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Old 09-24-2017, 12:47 PM
maus92 maus92 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Annapolis MD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whd721 View Post
I just experienced the thrill of loss of braking on the right brake. Red 5606 dribbling everywhere. Cutting donuts at the hold short line WOO HOO!

Does anyone have experience/ opinions about the advertised Cleveland upgrade kit pn# 100-93?

It apparently improves braking capacity with new rotors and brake assemblies.

Thanks for input.
I don't know anything about the kit - how much is it anyway?

I did have a seal blowout, although not too dramatic - I returned to the hangar one day to a pool of brake fluid. I replaced the standard seals with vitron seals, and have not had a reoccurrence. I'm a heavy user of brakes to make the first taxiway, so that combined with the probable age of the original seal may have contributed to the failure. I am looking for better braking performance, so I considered replacing the wheels and brakes with Grove parts. I didn't realize that their was a Cleveland "upgrade." Something to consider.
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Old 09-24-2017, 04:36 PM
whd721 whd721 is offline
 
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Search "upgrade kit 199-93" on AirCraft Spruce. $674
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  #6  
Old 09-24-2017, 05:56 PM
maus92 maus92 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whd721 View Post
Search "upgrade kit 199-93" on AirCraft Spruce. $674
Which is roughly 1/2 the cost of upgrading with the Grove parts - but with a similar upgrade in performance? Both avenues probably require some modification to the wheel pants, but does anyone know the difference in performance compared to each other and stock?
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  #7  
Old 09-25-2017, 03:52 AM
BMW_X6M BMW_X6M is offline
 
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I have had the Grove upgrade installed for several years. It is a dual piston caliper with longer pads, and a thicker rotor. I hated my stock brakes, and felt they were woefully inadequate. I am still on the original set of pads. The braking difference is very noticeable, and if you press too hard, you can lock the wheels up, but that has only happened to me once. Of course I was trying to make an early turnout. I released the pressure and did not flat spot the tire. The bleeder fitting does touch the wheelpant at the bottom. The wheel pant bracket needs to be trimmed for clearance. I am very happy with the performance and feel of the brakes now, and I have extra braking I can use if necessary.
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Old 09-25-2017, 10:05 AM
whd721 whd721 is offline
 
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Additional info for those who still care.

Cleveland Wheel and Brake Product Catalog Pub Num is AWBPC0001-20/USA

The Vans stock wheel assembly is listed on page 5-33 - 34. The actual assy. part number is 40-78B. The upgrade kit wheel assy. part number is 40-230 on the same pages.

I guess for now I will stay with the stock Vans Cleveland set up. My normal take off weight is approximately 1500 lbs with landing less fuel burned around 1400 lbs. I apparently have had a draggy right brake as the right linings are at min while the left lining is near new dimensions.

I am going to install the single bolt mod and booster spring on the right master and watch the dragging right brake for a period. Next decision this winter when the clouds are thicker and lower.
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As Bill Stout (designer of the Ford Trimotor) used to say, “Simplicate and add Lightness”
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  #9  
Old 09-25-2017, 11:13 AM
gasman gasman is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whd721 View Post
I just experienced the thrill of loss of braking on the right brake. Red 5606 dribbling everywhere. Cutting donuts at the hold short line WOO HOO!

Does anyone have experience/ opinions about the advertised Cleveland upgrade kit pn# 100-93?

It apparently improves braking capacity with new rotors and brake assemblies.

Thanks for input.
Do some thread searching.... I converted my 6A for under $200. I used Rapco discs, and made my own spacer from ACE hardware 1/4" alum bar stock. I did need a shim to move the wheel away from the pant bracket. It also requires you to install 1/4 inch longer pad plate bolts.

How well does it work? The brakes work great.... I have not had any fade. The disc at the bell shows no sign of heat. And the brake pads look like they are going to last at least twice as long.
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  #10  
Old 09-25-2017, 11:27 AM
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scard scard is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gasman View Post
Do some thread searching.... I converted my 6A for under $200. I used Rapco discs, and made my own spacer from ACE hardware 1/4" alum bar stock. I did need a shim to move the wheel away from the pant bracket. It also requires you to install 1/4 inch longer pad plate bolts.

How well does it work? The brakes work great.... I have not had any fade. The disc at the bell shows no sign of heat. And the brake pads look like they are going to last at least twice as long.
This is the way to go...
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