VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics


Go Back   VAF Forums > Model Specific > RV-12
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-17-2015, 10:49 AM
epaslick's Avatar
epaslick epaslick is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Siloam Springs, Arkansas
Posts: 57
Default Rotax 912 iS Sport instead of the 912 ULS?

I have a question you RV-12 E-AB builders. Has anyone considered installing the Rotax 912 iS Sport instead of the 912 ULS? How much would have to be changed to make the iS Sport fit and how much added difficulty would that cause?
__________________
Eric Paslick
EAA Chapter 732
Siloam Springs, AR
RV-12 #120991
Empennage: Started
N62EP Reserved
2017 Donation Paid
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-17-2015, 11:10 AM
Jetguy's Avatar
Jetguy Jetguy is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Texas, Fort Worth
Posts: 1,221
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by epaslick View Post
I have a question you RV-12 E-AB builders. Has anyone considered installing the Rotax 912 iS Sport instead of the 912 ULS? How much would have to be changed to make the iS Sport fit and how much added difficulty would that cause?
Yes! If you are a first time builder it would be very difficult.
Fuel system would be different.
Weight & balanced would be different.
Empty weight would be higher.
Cost of engine about $4000 more.
Cowl would be different.
Electronics would be different.
Increase build time by about 500 hours.
Etc, etc.
__________________
John
RV12 N1212K
Flying Since June 2010
1020 Hours as of 9/30/2017
Jetguy@att.net
RV14 Wing, arrived and building at Rdog's new Hanger at 16X
S/N 140014
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-17-2015, 12:50 PM
waterboy2110 waterboy2110 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 210
Default

I would also think there may be some wiring and configurations in the Skyview that would need to be taken care of. From what I recall from about reading - the IS has some upgrades available just to get it to the power of the ULS so what's the point unless you just can't stand the idea of a carb(s). I think the turbo Rotax is about 30lb heavier.

From my morning read in KitPlane changing out engines on a designed platform is not for the faint of heart. The article stated that insurance would be an issue and that the fly off would increase (the article eluded to a 25 hour eab if not to many deviations to a 40 if you change the PP - I've read about the FAA being liberal with fly off periods but have no experience with it... yet).
__________________
http://jimsrv.blogspot.com
PP - ASEL
Instrument Rating
A&P / Rotax iRMT 9 Series Maintenance
RV12 Flying.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-17-2015, 01:34 PM
epaslick's Avatar
epaslick epaslick is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Siloam Springs, Arkansas
Posts: 57
Default

My apologies, I didn't phrase my question very well, my fault. I was wondering if anyone else had looked into it and had specific details about what had to be changed and what could be kept from Van's...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetguy View Post
Yes! If you are a first time builder it would be very difficult.
Fuel system would be different.
Weight & balanced would be different.
Empty weight would be higher.
Cost of engine about $4000 more.
Cowl would be different.
Electronics would be different.
Increase build time by about 500 hours.
Etc, etc.
Any more difficult then building a 7 or 8 or 9 and choosing a non-Van's engine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetguy View Post
Fuel system would be different.
Different lines firewall forward for the fuel injection I would expect, but would you need to change anything aft of the firewall? What about fuel pumps?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetguy View Post
Empty weight would be higher.
If the info on the Rotax website is accurate and I did my mental math correctly, the iS Sport would add about 15 lbs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetguy View Post
Weight & balanced would be different.
See above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetguy View Post
Cost of engine about $4000 more.
Van's powerplant kit for the RV-12 is currently $28,738.00 plus s/h. I don't know what they include in the kit though, as I haven't seen a breakdown. So I don't know the cost of any of the extras I'd need. I've seen adverts for the barebones ULS as low as $16,000.00, and as high as $22,000.00. The only price I've seen for the iS Sport so far is $23,918.00.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetguy View Post
Cowl would be different.
Yes, I would expect to have to mod the cowls. I would also expect the baffles to be different as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetguy View Post
Electronics would be different.
I would expect additional wiring for the engine management system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetguy View Post
Increase build time by about 500 hours.
I've read on the forums that there are RV-12s with Vikings and Jabirus. I'm guessing that's the amount of additional time it took those builders to mod their RVs...
__________________
Eric Paslick
EAA Chapter 732
Siloam Springs, AR
RV-12 #120991
Empennage: Started
N62EP Reserved
2017 Donation Paid
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-17-2015, 01:54 PM
epaslick's Avatar
epaslick epaslick is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Siloam Springs, Arkansas
Posts: 57
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by waterboy2110 View Post
I would also think there may be some wiring and configurations in the Skyview that would need to be taken care of.
So I would expect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waterboy2110 View Post
From what I recall from about reading - the IS has some upgrades available just to get it to the power of the ULS so what's the point unless you just can't stand the idea of a carb(s).
That is not my understanding. The difference is both the fuel injection and the engine management system to increase fuel economy. I haven't seen anything that says they had to mod the engine to increase hp.

And it's not so much that I don't like carbs, but I really don't like dual carb setups. I've had bikes with both 2 and 4 carb systems and they have never been anything but trouble for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waterboy2110 View Post
I think the turbo Rotax is about 30lb heavier.
The iS Sport is not a turbo engine. It is approximately 15 lbs heavier than the ULS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waterboy2110 View Post
From my morning read in KitPlane changing out engines on a designed platform is not for the faint of heart. The article stated that insurance would be an issue and that the fly off would increase (the article eluded to a 25 hour eab if not to many deviations to a 40 if you change the PP - I've read about the FAA being liberal with fly off periods but have no experience with it... yet).
I believe 40 is the most common E-AB phase 1 time.
__________________
Eric Paslick
EAA Chapter 732
Siloam Springs, AR
RV-12 #120991
Empennage: Started
N62EP Reserved
2017 Donation Paid
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-17-2015, 03:48 PM
bhassel's Avatar
bhassel bhassel is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 905
Default

I too have been wondering about the 912IS Sport. I think I read somewhere that Cato was developing a prop (the one's I've seen are works of art) that would offset some of that weight difference.

The additional fuel savings would sure stretch that 20 gallon tank!

Bob
__________________
Bob Hassel
Santa Fe, NM

RV-12 - Kit SOLD!
RV-9 - Emp Completed - Back On The Front Burner - well maybe after...?

Glastar Kit #5500 on the way...the 500th produced


Subscription Paid for 2017

Home is where the hanger is...
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-17-2015, 03:55 PM
Mel's Avatar
Mel Mel is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 9,678
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by waterboy2110 View Post
(the article eluded to a 25 hour eab if not to many deviations to a 40 if you change the PP - I've read about the FAA being liberal with fly off periods but have no experience with it... yet).
FAA rules state that the minimum phase I flight test period is 40 hrs. for a non-certificated engine/propeller combination installed on an Experimental Amateur-Built aircraft. If anyone give less, they are violating the rules.
__________________
Mel Asberry..DAR since last century
A&P/EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor
Specializing in Amateur-Built and Light-Sport Aircraft
<n168tx(at)flytx.net>
North Texas (8TA5)
RV-6 Flying since 1993
175hp O-320
3-Blade Catto (since 2003)
FRIEND of the RV-1
Eagle's Nest Mentor

Last edited by Mel : 01-17-2015 at 06:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-17-2015, 05:25 PM
Gagarin737's Avatar
Gagarin737 Gagarin737 is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 613
Default

Nice movie from Rotax-Owner about installation of a 912IS in a CH750 and with that the redesign of the fuel system -> YouTube
__________________
PH-BZT

MyKitlog
Picasa pictures
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-17-2015, 05:25 PM
waterboy2110 waterboy2110 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 210
Default

Ah - my comment about the upgrade was to get the IS to the sport version. New mapping and air box I believe. Sorry about that.

Mel - I'm pretty sure the USL is not a certificated engine. My understanding is that's quite a bit more money. What gives? For ELSA is the rule ignored?
__________________
http://jimsrv.blogspot.com
PP - ASEL
Instrument Rating
A&P / Rotax iRMT 9 Series Maintenance
RV12 Flying.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-17-2015, 05:51 PM
Mel's Avatar
Mel Mel is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 9,678
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by waterboy2110 View Post
Ah - my comment about the upgrade was to get the IS to the sport version. New mapping and air box I believe. Sorry about that.
Mel - I'm pretty sure the USL is not a certificated engine. My understanding is that's quite a bit more money. What gives? For ELSA is the rule ignored?
The 912 ULS is not a certificated engine. Phase I test period should be a minimum of 40 hrs. for EAB.

For ELSA the rule is different. Phase I flight test for ELSA is 5 hrs. min.
__________________
Mel Asberry..DAR since last century
A&P/EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor
Specializing in Amateur-Built and Light-Sport Aircraft
<n168tx(at)flytx.net>
North Texas (8TA5)
RV-6 Flying since 1993
175hp O-320
3-Blade Catto (since 2003)
FRIEND of the RV-1
Eagle's Nest Mentor

Last edited by Mel : 01-17-2015 at 06:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:39 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.