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  #1  
Old 08-03-2019, 05:18 PM
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mach25 mach25 is offline
 
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Default OSH Arrival

I tried to land at OSH on Thursday after the air show. This was a fiasco and I was unable to get in. First, the air show ran nearly 45 minutes late. Second, ATC refused to allow arrivals for 30 minutes to allow backed up departures off. Third, the C5 incident confused ATC and caused more delays. Finally, they closed the field for arrivals at the standard 8 PM despite all the delays in arrivals. Why? It is not dark until 9:30 PM. The delays were caused by ATC and the air show, not the pilots. It would be safer to allow the pilots risking their lives circling Rush Lake in close proximity to dozens of their friends to arrive at OSH instead of forcing them away to find another airport late in the evening. They may be low on fuel, they may be landing at an unfamiliar field at night, and FBOs may be closed. This really needs to be addressed in the future before someone gets hurt. I think the OSH arrival closure time needs to be flexible to reduce risk to arrivals. Your thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 08-03-2019, 05:28 PM
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ChiefPilot ChiefPilot is offline
 
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I arrived Thursday morning, hitting FISK right at 7:00am. Super easy arrival with no holding. But I also had the information out for Fon Du Lac as that was my planned alternate if something prevented me from getting into Osh, and I arrived at FISK with about three hours of fuel on board.

I think it's fine as is, really. The NOTAM is pretty clear that you should monitor your fuel situation and divert if neccesary. Further, someone landing at an unfamiliar airport at night does so by their choice - they could have chosen to divert earlier. I'd also say that if someone is circling Rush Lake and feels like they are risking their life doing so, they are doing so by their own choice and should probably divert immediately.
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  #3  
Old 08-03-2019, 05:48 PM
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Walt Walt is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mach25 View Post
I tried to land at OSH on Thursday after the air show. This was a fiasco and I was unable to get in. First, the air show ran nearly 45 minutes late. Second, ATC refused to allow arrivals for 30 minutes to allow backed up departures off. Third, the C5 incident confused ATC and caused more delays. Finally, they closed the field for arrivals at the standard 8 PM despite all the delays in arrivals. Why? It is not dark until 9:30 PM. The delays were caused by ATC and the air show, not the pilots. It would be safer to allow the pilots risking their lives circling Rush Lake in close proximity to dozens of their friends to arrive at OSH instead of forcing them away to find another airport late in the evening. They may be low on fuel, they may be landing at an unfamiliar field at night, and FBOs may be closed. This really needs to be addressed in the future before someone gets hurt. I think the OSH arrival closure time needs to be flexible to reduce risk to arrivals. Your thoughts?
Totally agree, last year despite the arrival disaster, they shut down the airport at 7:30 leaving tons of folks scrambling to alternates.
Always easy for the folks on the ground to say "you should be a better pilot, not my problem".
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Last edited by Walt : 08-03-2019 at 05:53 PM.
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  #4  
Old 08-03-2019, 07:02 PM
pilotkms pilotkms is offline
 
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I arrived Friday and endured the storms for 2 days. Afterwards, when the skies were clear after 6 pm, I wondered the same thing. Why close the field when it was severe clear until dark, 9:00+, and planes were trying to get in??? Weather impacts everything and adjusting the closing time when the weather is great to get planes in should be considered.
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  #5  
Old 08-03-2019, 07:06 PM
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Ed_Wischmeyer Ed_Wischmeyer is offline
 
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Iíve worked in the past with the folks who were responsible for the NOTAM, and thereís lots of moving parts at Oshkosh. Lots. Your best bet for improving things is to contact EAA directly.

Problem solvers welcome! Whiners not so much.
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  #6  
Old 08-03-2019, 07:13 PM
Kyle Boatright Kyle Boatright is offline
 
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As I posted on the EAA board. The EAA publishes a schedule and needs to live by that schedule. Both arriving and departing aircraft depend on that schedule for planning safe arrivals and departures. If the airshow needs to be truncated at 6:00, so be it.

I would be comfortable moving the field closure to 8:30, but no later, and would not make the timing of the field closure flexible because then you'd have people "planning" around an unpredictable schedule.

Make a plan. Follow the plan. This applies to pilots and the EAA.
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Last edited by Kyle Boatright : 08-04-2019 at 06:59 AM.
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  #7  
Old 08-03-2019, 07:14 PM
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thompsonbr87 thompsonbr87 is offline
 
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Is it too much to ask for the airshow to stick to the NOTAMed times?
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  #8  
Old 08-03-2019, 07:18 PM
ALagonia ALagonia is offline
 
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We arrived Wednesday late morning. No issues at all. What I found most disappointing was other pilots asking ATC the same questions about parking availability. The answer to each question was broadcast on the ATIS but still Pilot after pilot asked the same questions and of course received the same answers. The Same answers that they heard on the ATIS, if they were listening as per the NOTAM.
ATC was courteous and their instructions were clear. This was my first visit to OSH. I canít speak for others but my arrival experience was awesome.
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  #9  
Old 08-03-2019, 07:20 PM
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Fhuber Fhuber is offline
 
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We need to keep in mind that all the people, who work our airplanes from and to the runways, are all volunteers. So when 8 pm arrives, they are off to the camp grounds to relax and enjoy the evening festivities with family and friends. So that is likely why 8 pm is a hard field closing time.






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  #10  
Old 08-03-2019, 07:48 PM
alcladrv alcladrv is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed_Wischmeyer View Post
I’ve worked in the past with the folks who were responsible for the NOTAM, and there’s lots of moving parts at Oshkosh.
I first flew the Fiske arrival in 1985 on Sunday in early evening and landed as expected in enough time to setup camp. The basic design hasn't really changed in those 34 years, but the traffic has grown. It's past time for a rethink. Since ground traffic can only approach the airport from one direction, it's almost like the designers of the procedure are stuck with the same mindset.

One thing that really struck me after flying out of OSH is that once you get 5 miles or so from the airport, you wouldn't know anything that big was taking place nearby. My point is that there is lot of airspace out there. Use it all instead of maybe only 10% of what's available.

+1 on the airshows need to end on time, especially when they start early. Since the airshow takes place along runway 18/36, would it really be that much of a safety issue if departures were allowed on runway 27 for straight out departures with a maximum altitude of 1000 AGL out to 5 miles during the airshow. Restrict taxiing operations only to the North 40 during the airshow. They run the facility as 2 separate airports all day long anyway. Why not continue the philosophy during the airshow?

Last edited by alcladrv : 08-03-2019 at 08:16 PM.
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