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  #1  
Old 03-03-2019, 12:38 PM
TimO TimO is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 478
Default Mag Failure - Check Slick SB 1-15A

I figured this is a good one to post here, because many of us ordered engines and built RV14's with engine from the same era.

I had a complete mag failure on my one and only mag in the RV-14. It was first caught on the ground, during run-up, and it wasn't vague at all as to there being a problem. Once I tore into it, what I found was pretty unexpected, yet based on the parts Slick was using at the time, I believe many of you will fun into the issue if you have affected mags, and it is absolutely a good one to take care of. I hadn't caught this Service Bulletin until now, so now that I'm aware I want to make sure you know about it too.

Here's a link to the SB:

https://www.championaerospace.com/as...A_20181112.pdf

I did do a write-up with pics and a video on my site that can show you how bad the issue was after only 305 hours. If you're interested in that, go here:

https://www.myrv14.com/N14YT/mainten...6_Mag_Failure/

Check your mag serial number and see if you are affected. From what I understand, the copper based part has been used for quite a number of years. The plastic molding/capturing of the part is a more recent issue. So older mags will probably have the copper part, but may not fail as readily. That said, switching to the new Monel part would make it more bulletproof.

One other side note, the 6-cyl slick mags have always been made from Monel, so those would be better already.
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  #2  
Old 03-03-2019, 02:46 PM
Tom023 Tom023 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cypress, TX
Posts: 303
Default

Tim thanks for posting. I was thinking another thing to add to the before first flight list but luckily I’m outside the range.

For a point of reference my IO-390 test cell run was 12/19/17 and my one Slick mag (4345) serial #17110xxxx.
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Last edited by Tom023 : 03-04-2019 at 06:32 PM.
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  #3  
Old 03-03-2019, 03:00 PM
TimO TimO is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 478
Default

For the timeline on mine, I ordered the engine 8/27/2014, and received it somewhere right around 12/30/2014 or just after.
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RV-14 N14YT - Flying 6/2016 - 325+ hours http://www.MyRV14.com
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  #4  
Old 03-03-2019, 06:55 PM
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wjb wjb is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Half Moon Bay, CA
Posts: 900
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Great writeup!

Also, thanks for the pointer on the $25 buzz-box (http://www.magnetotimer.com/ ) I got one on order. I was planning on using my EE degree to make one, but for $25, it's a steal!

(and thankfully the mags on my newish IO-360 are not affected by the SB. yay!)
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Last edited by wjb : 03-03-2019 at 07:05 PM.
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  #5  
Old 03-04-2019, 05:41 AM
Tooch Tooch is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Amelia, Va
Posts: 238
Default internal timing

Yeah, I had the bad mags. I didn't know about the service bulletin either. for 2 years I had the hardest time starting the engine. It wasn't until I was at the Champion booth at SnF asking about their SlickStart magneto booster when the rep asked me the date of my mags. He then determined that I had the ones with the bad points.

He gave me a set of new points. Went home, installed them and my plane has started like a car ever since.

Last edited by Tooch : 03-04-2019 at 06:12 AM.
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  #6  
Old 03-04-2019, 06:23 AM
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uk_figs uk_figs is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 940
Default Great write up

Just got my mags back after a 500 hour overhaul and will check that this SB was incorporated. Interestingly I had the referenced mag drop issue on my -7 a while back (397 hours on mags) which was resolved (I thought) by adjusting the timing on the mag. In going back and reading the old VAF thread the timing was off by three teeth which I think is similar to the 6 degrees you mentioned. looks like I may have had the same problem but it did not manifest itself again (over 100 hours).

For reference, my mags were new in 2008 and included the updated SB kit that replaced the points etc.

Your point about parts pricing is also on the mark as in my case the parts drove the overhaul price per mag (including taxes) to $700 each

Pricing caused me to wrestle with the EI decision again this year but decided to stick with the mags as for me they have basically worked for the last 10 years.
I have both of your articles bookmarked for reference

Figs
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  #7  
Old 03-04-2019, 08:43 AM
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pazmanyflyer pazmanyflyer is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Litchfield Park, AZ
Posts: 911
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Thanks for the notice. I was unaware of this. Just checked my 0 time (new) mags and they both are 1410XXXX. Probably in the same production run as yours. I have never removed / replaced a mag so I guess it's time to learn so I can send these in for repair.
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  #8  
Old 03-04-2019, 10:00 AM
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uk_figs uk_figs is offline
 
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Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 940
Default Removing the mags

Carlos
Having just gone though this the top clamp on the left (impulse) mag was a bugger to get off and put back on as it is right under the oil filter on my 0-360 and I could not reach it with my fingers. I ended up using a long finger clamp and a magnet tool to get it off and back on. There is not a lot of room between the mags and the firewall on the -7.

There is probably some trick to this or a special tool but check before you start or you will be cursing like I was
Figs
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  #9  
Old 03-04-2019, 12:17 PM
TimO TimO is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 478
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Well I'm glad people are finding the information useful. Hopefully it saves someone from a potentially bad situation. When I talked to them, basically it was this one gear part, and the points, that were his main concern. My points looked fine, but I ordered a new set anyway. My gears come UPS tomorrow finally. (Many places were back ordered) So this week I should be able to have my 2 mags (one that's never been used and I may sell some day) all back in working order. If I ever decide to make the jump to another EI on the right side, I'll have a brand new mag to sell.

The part that bothers me the most is the pricing of all of these parts. A mag in itself shouldn't cost more than a few hundred bucks. But once you own the shell and a good set of parts, you should really be able to overhaul one for much less than the ~$679 that the kit would cost, and that doesn't even replace everything in the mag. I wasn't nearly so disappointed in mags back in around 2001 when I was able to buy them for maybe $500-600, but they are pricing themselves out of realism.

If/when I do an E.I. system for the bottom plugs, it's going to be with one requirement: I want to do it with plug wires that are held on not just by friction fit pop on caps. I want something that would use a more aviation style plug that has a nut you can torque on. On my RV-10 after a few years, I started having a plug wire pop off on its own, and that was on top. I don't want to fly an aerobatic plane with plug wires on the bottom of the cylinder than could potentially just pop off due to G forces.

On a side note, I did post that pricing matrix. I can't remember as I write this if I added the slick cam grease on there or not. I ordered 3 packs of it. I'm wondering if there is any spec anyone knows about that would allow us to use some other grease that we can buy in tubes, rather than these tiny capsules. I'm not sure if its petroleum based, moly grease, or what, but I'm sure there would be something that could be safely used that we could stock our hangars with. I'll save these capsule for my travel kit in the airplanes.

To reply to pazmanyflyer's comment, I feel your pain. You now get the mag education. My suggestion is to spend a little money on help from the local A&P for the first one. The first couple times I tore into mags it was watching someone else do it, and if for nothing more than your own comfort, it would be worth spending an hour or two of labor to watch it done. I was warned to make sure to remove my pins from the mags before turning the engine, and some things like those lessons stuck with me. Without having someone say that up front, I don't know that it would have stuck. They're not as horribly complex or scary as it may seem, but still it's something new, and although we are allowed to work on these things ourselves, it's best to do "first time" things under a little guidance from someone who knows better.

Also, everyone should make sure they have the T-118 and T-150 tools on hand. You want to be prepared.

If anyone has a .pdf copy of Champion Slick Service Manual L-1363G (the current rev), I'd love to add it to that write-up so that I'm not behind on it. I only have "F".
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RV-10 N104CD - Flying 2/2006 - 1400+ hours http://www.MyRV10.com
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  #10  
Old 03-04-2019, 03:51 PM
isosceles isosceles is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Fremont
Posts: 47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimO View Post
I don't want to fly an aerobatic plane with plug wires on the bottom of the cylinder than could potentially just pop off due to G forces.
I believe all Yak and Sukhoi drivers switched to automotive plugs and harnesses long time ago (no first hand knowledge though). I have not heard of any problems with the auto harnesses, and they are very much aerobatic airplanes!
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