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Can you tow RV-7A by steps?

DocThrock

Active Member
One of my hangar neighbors has a floor winch and so far no towbar for his nose wheel. He already broke the tail tie down eye bolt wenching the plane into his hangar. He wonders if you can't loop a snatch strap around the steps and then wench the plane into the hangar by that strap. Are those steps and the structure behind them sturdy enough to stand the stress?

Thanks!

Matt
 
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Doubt I'd be willing to subject the steps to any more abuse than they normally receive, given the number of reports on the forums about step cracking. Just forward of the steps on a 7A is the main gear. It's designed to take far more abuse than the steps. Why not use that?

Better yet, a real towbar is useful both at home and away, and only costs $120 at Bogert. (Not affiliated, just an owner of their product)
 
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One of my hangar neighbors has a floor wench and so far no towbar for his nose wheel. He already broke the tail tie down eye bolt wenching the plane into his hangar. He wonders if you can't loop a snatch strap around the steps and then wench the plane into the hangar by that strap. Are those steps and the structure behind them sturdy enough to stand the stress?

Thanks!

Matt

Vans would have the real answer, but mine would be "no". That structure is designed for vertical, not horizontal, loads.
 
Side steps

Internal structure is strong enough, but the tube just below the top weld may not take the twisting load. I have replaced 4 steps on various RVs so far where the tube broke in this location. Although the tube looks robust, it will fatigue with heavy or twisting forces.
I can't think of an alternate pull location off hand either as I really don't like the idea of inflicting side forces on the rear or spar tie downs either. Maybe AntiSplat can investigate a rear tie down/skid plate mod to attach to the bottom fuselage...
 
Absolutely not.

Tell the guy to pry open the wallet for a tow bar. Why would anyone go to the time and expense of building an RV then go all cheap on taking care of it for tasks like moving it in and out of a hangar?
 
Absolutely not.

Tell the guy to pry open the wallet for a tow bar. Why would anyone go to the time and expense of building an RV then go all cheap on taking care of it for tasks like moving it in and out of a hangar?

Exactly the right answer.

Airplanes are not designed for off-design abuse. If you are not going to treat it right it will not treat you right.
 
It's frightening to think about. It would tear your side skin, then your center rib on the bottom fuselage to get out of the small piece of UMHW which is the ONLY strength in the whole operation, then take out the other rib.

There aren't many things that would be more monumentally stupid.

All to save $100 on a tow bar? Wow.
 
I operate an RV-9A and we routinely pull it up a slight incline into the hanger using a small rope winch and a bridle attached to both steps. The bridle loops need to be placed towards the top of the step as close to the fuselage as possible. I use a remote control for the winch and a tow bar on the nose wheel to steer it. This method has worked for 10 years with no issues.
 
...where is this hangar????

One of my hangar neighbors has a floor wench ....
Man, I wish I had a floor wench! :rolleyes: but seriously, is there an incline? I find my ship pretty tough to push/pull by hand up much more than 1% with the resistance of the little 5.00x5's.
- and as others have said before, the bogert and other bars are for STEERing the nosewheel, not towing, but the other options ARE limited!
I push and pull on my airsteps all the time, by hand, because all those people much smarter than I told me not to use the prop.
....but then you see that they moor & tow planes with a prop bridle at Airventure.
hmmmm.
lots of conflicting info out there.
 
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There aren't many things that would be more monumentally stupid.

All to save $100 on a tow bar? Wow.

Ouch. :confused:

Reading between the lines of the original post, especially given the fact that the question was posted second-hand, there may be more than a desire simply to avoid paying for a $50 towbar. Maybe he's an older gentleman who can envision a time when, perhaps due to incline or ice, he may not want to be trying to push-pull with the towbar. I'd at least be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Anyone have any constructive advice about how a winch could be used?
 
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Winch

My hanger neighbor uses a remote controlled winch connected to the tail tie down eye to pull his Diamond DA-40 into his hangar. He steers the nosewheel with a towbar. I am having trouble understanding how you could break off the tail eye bolt on a -7A without really yanking on it or doing damage to the structure.
 
Absolutely not.

Tell the guy to pry open the wallet for a tow bar. Why would anyone go to the time and expense of building an RV then go all cheap on taking care of it for tasks like moving it in and out of a hangar?

First of all the guy didn't build the plane, he BOUGHT it. And it's his first plane. Please cut him (and everyone else) a little slack.

He AND I didn't know there was a towbar available, so that's a bit of good news. I told him to research here when we were having the discussion.

Our T hangar floors have a nasty lip where the sloped asphalt meets the concrete floor. And the concrete is so slick, I have a hard time getting my Rocket in and out. And my hangar has less lip and less grade leading up to it than his does.

His 7A has a composite prop and someone broke one of his blades, perhaps moving the plane around the hangar. So he's also gun shy when it comes to handling his MT, even by the root.

Well, maybe the step idea isn't a good one. Or perhaps he will be "experimental" and try to work with it.

Like someone else said, off the top of my head, other than a towbar on the nose wheel and a friend to help push, maybe there just isn't going to be a good solution.

I'll mention the Bogart bar to him next time I see him. I'm still open to other suggestions if anyone has a good idea, too.

I push my Rocket in by the Horizontal stab. Is the 7A stab sturdy enough to elevate the nose gear and push the plane in that way?


Thanks!
 
There is no problem whatsoever towing the plane backwards using the boarding steps, provided the pulling ropes are all the way up against the fuselage. I did this some years back during icy ramp periods. I had a remote control winch, and manned the towbar for steering. I had a loop of rope perhaps 10' long, with each end attached to the boarding steps using a noose arrangement for easy on/off. I attached the winch to this loop using a pulley, so it could self center as the plane moved. Trivial forces on the steps doing this as compared to a several hundred pound pulse applied at the very end when one steps on it. In my not so humble engineering opinion...:p
 
seems like it would actually be stronger with the rope next to the fuse pulling fore/aft than as designed for a step. the bridle idea sounds solid to me
 
Anyone have any constructive advice about how a winch could be used?

Weld up a "special" tow bar to be installed toward the rear and clear the wheel pant. Attach rope and pull away. No more stress than having my line guy push mine in with a tractor. I sometimes use a small battery powered tug that was donated by a special friend, but many times use the wife and kids. Yes, kids...that is what he needs.
 
Wow, talk about sychronisity!

Just last week I installed a wInch for my wEnch in our hanger. There is an incline at the entrance and a couple of door tracks that are about 1 1/2" high. I bought a couple of 10'X 2" tow straps at Harbor Freight that have loops on both ends. I first tried putting one strap through the tow hook and looping the ends over either step, securing them close to the fuselage with spring clamps. We then controlled the backward direction with the towbar at the nose gear witha wireless remote control. This seems to work fine but I agonized over pulling backwards on the steps so this is what I came up with. I took our towbar and drilled it out at the ends where it goes into the fairing. My plan is to insert a 5" X 5/8" bolt into either side which leaves about 2 1/4" hanging out of the towbar to loop the straps over. If it works well, I will then have it welded if necessary. I will post some photos after the weekend when I complete the project.
 
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