What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Build OR Buy?

SX-ALY

SX-ALY

Active Member
I was wondering about the total cost of an RV kit (7(A) for example).
Van's site has an estimator but real costs may vary significant.


I search the forums a little and i didn't find anything similar thread comparing building cost vs buying , other than few posts here and there that saying that is cheaper to buy one completed airplane than actually build it(!!), and you build just to enjoy the process(and be a proud owner and have the repairmen certificate):)

Your comments please
 
In the past, well built RV's have easily sold for more than they cost to build.
You as a buyer need to decide if that price difference is worth the labor time you would have to invest.
Also consider if you really have an interest in building an airplane.
Some of the articles on this part of the site http://www.vansairforce.net/articles.htm may be of help.
 
BUY!

If you have to ask this question, you should definitely buy.

You should build an airplane because you want to build an airplane. Not because you want an airplane.
 
I agree with Mel. Even with a quickbuild kit, if you don't have a desire to build then you'll never finish. Go out and buy something and accept that it will be what someone else wanted and not exactly to your taste. You may have to pay $10K for all the labor in the project, but that's cheap! Put the word out that you're looking to buy, don't be too picky about the exact spec - if you must have an RV-7 with a slider, 180 hp engine & c/s prop and painted blue then you might be looking for a while. RV-7 & slider (and maybe 180hp) would give you a much wider choice - are you sure an RV-6 is out? The best ones don't get advertised so have the cash ready as good airplanes go quickly. Take some who knows RVs to do the pre-buy.

Pete
 
IMHO, it is less expensive to buy a flying bird, BUT...

SX-ALY said:
I was wondering about the total cost of an RV kit (7(A) for example).
Van's site has an estimator but real costs may vary significant.


I search the forums a little and i didn't find anything similar thread comparing building cost vs buying , other than few posts here and there that saying that is cheaper to buy one completed airplane than actually build it(!!), and you build just to enjoy the process(and be a proud owner and have the repairmen certificate):)

Your comments please
Click to expand...

If you do not enjoy tinkering or just want to fly quick, I think you will do better to buy a flying bird. Remember, your cost of purchase may well be less expensive, but you will not be able to do any of repairs, mods or changes since you will not the builder and will not have the repairman's certificate. This cost of ownership is often where the builder save significantly over the buyer.


rvbuilder2002 said:
In the past, well built RV's have easily sold for more than they cost to build.
Click to expand...

I would disagree with this assumption. In most cases I've seen, the opposite is true.

Mel said:
If you have to ask this question, you should definitely buy.

You should build an airplane because you want to build an airplane. Not because you want an airplane.
Click to expand...

I think we would all agree with this statement.
 
Thank you all for your responses.

I was browsing some RV-7 sales advertisements for weeks lately and i pick-up few interesting ones to evaluate the selling prices against building one with same configuration.
I calculated that this specific aircraft will cost around $90K to build without any labor, tools or other unspecified, unexpected, etc expenses.
Aircraft had less than 100 hours by the time of sale and sold about 95000(asking price, real maybe less).

I was wonder why someone built an airplane that he selling it after flying it for few hours for less than it actually cost him?(many examples like that) I know that everybody has reasons and of course market is down right now, but i guess you build it to keep it at least for a while and have fun with it.


Just few thoughts
 
rvbuilder2002 said:
In the past, well built RV's have easily sold for more than they cost to build.
You as a buyer need to decide if that price difference is worth the labor time you would have to invest.
Also consider if you really have an interest in building an airplane.
Some of the articles on this part of the site http://www.vansairforce.net/articles.htm may be of help.
Click to expand...

Hard Knox said:
I would disagree with this assumption. In most cases I've seen, the opposite is true.
Click to expand...

I've been working with RV's for 20 years...It's not an assumption, but every one is entitled to there own opinion.
I will qualify my statement by being a little more specific.
A well built RV that is built with a typical panel usually sells for more than it cost to build.
A high end RV with a $30K panel, $10K paint job, etc. does not typically sell for more than it cost to build. My contention is that a much larger percentage of RV's up for sale fall into the first category.

I totally agree with the comments that someone shouldn't build just as a means to own an RV. A person needs to enjoy the building process to have any chance of succeeding. The problem is many people learn that they do enjoy it even though when they started out they were not looking fwd to it. That is the reason I referred the thread starter to the articles section of VAF. There are some good articles there that cover this exact subject.
 
Hard Knox said:
........Remember, your cost of purchase may well be less expensive, but you will not be able to do any of repairs, mods or changes since you will not the builder ...........
Click to expand...

That is a incorrect statement. Anyone can perform repairs, maintenance and mods. But requires the holder of the repairman cert or an A&P to do the condition inspection.
 
Last edited:
hydroguy2 said:
That is a incorrect statement. Anyone can perform repairs, maintenance and mods. But requires the holder of the repairman cert or an A&P to do the conditional inspection.
Click to expand...
Brian is correct except that it a condition inspection, not conditional.
 
Hard Knox said:
Remember, your cost of purchase may well be less expensive, but you will not be able to do any of repairs, mods or changes since you will not the builder and will not have the repairman's certificate. This cost of ownership is often where the builder save significantly over the buyer.
Click to expand...


hydroguy2 said:
That is a incorrect statement. Anyone can perform repairs, maintenance and mods. But requires the holder of the repairman cert or an A&P to do the conditional inspection.
Click to expand...

Brian is right.
This is still such a common misunderstanding.

The only thing a non builder can not do is sign of the annul condition inspection.
A new RV buyer can wreck the airplane while flying it home from the purchase, truck it home and totally rebuild it, and as long as the rebuild is completed before the next condition inspection is due, go back to flying it.
This scenario is not necessarily prudent for someone unfamiliar with RV's and aircraft repair, but it is totally legal. He can also do any and all maint. and modifications that they choose to do as long as they meet the requirements of there operating limitations regarding the modifications.
 
In my experience, having now purchased almost everything I need to finish, Van's cost estimator is right on +/- 5% so long as you don't have an extra extravagant panel.

On the larger question of build or buy--you HAVE to be passionate about building. Building the airframe is pretty easy and anybody with a modest amount of patience, perseverance, and good judgement can do it, but you will really be tested when you get to systems and FWF. It would be a big bummer to get that far and realize you wish you had just bought.

Also, although it is probably not yet quantifiable, with the explosion of the number of completions over the past couple years, I'm thinking our days of selling our completed RV's for significantly more than they cost to build are, except in rare circumstances, numbered at best. I think it will just be an issue of supply and demand. The supply is clearly expanding. Is the demand? Not so sure. Only time will tell.
 
Last edited:
Enjoying the build process is only one reason to build

I had never built anything like an RV airplane but after many years of working I could see retirement coming in my future (I was 60 at the time). I had owned a 1981 Piper Archer II for 14 years ( I continued to own it and fly to work daily until I finished the RV-6A) and annual inspections were always an uncontrollable expense. I decided I wanted to build the best airplane I could build, increase the speed at which I could travel at and do all of my own maintenance and annual condition inspections. I achieved that and I am very happy with the result. I felt very good about what I was doing as I built the plane and there was a growing satisfaction with the creation, confidence in my skills and knowledge of the configuration as I did each task. I have no intention to repeat the build process - I wanted a certain thing and I achieved it

When I got back from the Rocket 100 air race this afternoon in Taylor, Texas An owner of a Cessna 182RG and his friend were changing the oil in the friends newly purchased RV-6A. They came over and asked me how to remove the filter and avoid getting oil all over the place. A builder would never ask a question like that. It has also been my experience that buyers do not have a high comfort level with working on purchased experimental aircraft and professional mechanics avoid them because every one of them is unique and some not so good under the pretty paint.

Bob Axsom
 
I bought my 6A and change oil, do much of the prep work for the condition inspection, fix the inspection boo-boos, have removed and reinstalled most of the removable parts to repaint the plane, added an autopilot, removed the engine FWF and reinstalled it after a rebuild, change tires/tubes, changed the nose gear fork assembly, added new fairings//wheel pants, etc.

Yes I did not build it but do know it relatively well. Of course I did have to learn, ask questions and do stupid things along the way.

Thanks to all the builders who eventually sell their airplane. Because of you I have done things unthinkable six years ago and have improved my abilities as a pilot immensely.
 
Im kinda a hybrid... I started this wanting to have an airplane, didnt MIND building but figured I'd suffer my way through it... So far, I have learned to really enjoy building. I look forward to it each day. And I'm learning alot too. So why didn't I just buy one? Couldn't afford it... this way I can spread the cost out over however many years I want!
 
What about the rv-10

Do most builders have as much cost of material in the rv-10's as they are asking, or is because of more $$ in the panel.
...or still a new enough and few enough on the market?

Are Van's #'s on cost to build close, or a very basic model?

Thanks,
 
danielhv said:
Im kinda a hybrid... I started this wanting to have an airplane, didnt MIND building but figured I'd suffer my way through it... So far, I have learned to really enjoy building. I look forward to it each day. And I'm learning alot too. So why didn't I just buy one? Couldn't afford it... this way I can spread the cost out over however many years I want!
Click to expand...

Same here - I'm a certified airplane nut, so owning an airplane was not an option, but I'm not in the check-writing category of ownership, so I had to develop plan B. I've always enjoyed building things and working with metal, so the idea of building an airplane was not so scary at all, though I did have serious reservations about building a composite airplane with my low level of experience working with composites. The RV was a great fit for me - price was acceptable, build time gave me a few years to pay it out, I have something in the garage to tinker with everyday, and when it's all over I'll have the performance that I could only dream about before at about 1/3 the cost of a factory-built aircraft. Once all the factors were weighed in, it was a no-brainer and I booked my airline ticket to go to the Vans factory.

I have to echo Mel (and some others) on this though - do NOT choose to build one as a path to aircraft ownership if ownership is your only goal. You MUST love to build things to be able to push through this long project to the end product. There are a large number of empennage and wing kits partially finished on the market from people who thought they needed to build an aircraft, but really just wanted to have one flying and ran out of steam after getting a good start. Some of us (repeat offenders) take this to an extreme and sell their project soon after flying off Phase I so they can continue building the next one - these folks may be more in love with building than flying. I'm not there yet, but I can see that there is a high likelihood of joining that group - I'm just now sealing my fuel tanks for my 9A and I've already picked out a Harmon Rocket as my next project. Just don't let my wife know! :eek:
 
Buy now! Then start building.

If you have the skill set to maintain the plane & can afford it, go ahead & buy so you can fly. Then build at whatever pace you can afford out of current income.

I always told myself I wouldn't build without something to fly. (I've owned several purchased homebuilts.) I did have a one-year window without a plane in the hangar while I was restoring a house on our airport property. I sold the plane because I literally didn't have time to fly, but I was miserable for the entire year knowing I *couldn't* fly.

I'm not flying a lot right now, but I do fly enough to keep my skills, and I *can* fly when I want to. A lot of friends are heading to Dauphin Island for lunch on Friday after Thanksgiving, & it would kill me to know I couldn't fly with them.

I've seen several emails lately from guys with planes ready for 1st flight, but they haven't flown in years & often have little or no time in type. That's a recipe for disaster. If you own a spam can, sell it & buy an RV. It will be cheaper to keep than the spam can & you can develop the skills for 1st flight when test time rolls around.

Charlie
Flying -4 (purchased)
-7 finish kit
Slobovia Outernational (MS71)
 
bought 2 flying, part build RV10

Per the above, I think I can add something to this discussion. I've bought 2 RV-6s that were flying, and completed an RV-10 emp/tail cone kit before selling it.

Scott McD, others, are right. A well built, but minimal fluff, RV will easily bring the cost of materials and probably then some. A fluffed up, loaded RV, especially one with a high $$$ panel, probably not.

Also, the days of those building RVs for profit, i.e. where their labor is worth little more than min wage, are also likely over for a while, notwithstanding the 51%, and amateur built experimental rules issues that arise.

On starting an airplane building project, consider how much spare time you have now, and do you have a suitable place to build. The money avail goes without saying. Easily add 20% to Van's cost estimator, for unplanned expenses/changes, and especially if you value your time. Airplanes can be built at a few hrs/week pace in a single car garage, but would not recommend it, i.e. like water torture. Unless you have time for a part time job already, kids gone, understanding spouse/other, and a nearby, properly heated/cooled facility that's at least 40' x 40', good luck. And partnerships are problematic as well, except for the experienced RVer/A&P that helps you with a purchase decision.

Without a doubt, the best deals out there are the nearly built planes (not 90% done and 90% to go), or the decent/well built flying planes, with useful/adequate panels/options. I had a very well built RV10 tail cone/emp, was assisted by a fmr warbird restorer and even another longtime builder, yet still sold this far fm finished project for a fraction of cost, labor free. Ditto for quick build wings and fuselage that were yet to be touched. Far more the rule than exception.

And another comment rings home. If you're building to build, then build. If you really just want to fly, me right now, forget the build.

Your results may vary.
 
rv-10 Cost

Pallet said:
Do most builders have as much cost of material in the rv-10's as they are asking, or is because of more $$ in the panel.
...or still a new enough and few enough on the market?

Are Van's #'s on cost to build close, or a very basic model?

Thanks,
Click to expand...

Their estimator is low. I just used it and got the "High" answer of $116,375.....my total cost ~$160,000.


You can do it for a lot less, but.......
 
Estimator

You might want to do a separate area for EFIS and GPS then add accordingly.
These costs can vary wildly. A dual avidyne PFD and MFD runs about 100K
believe it or not ... single pfd and mfd might be closer to 60K...
while a garmin G900 and 600 range in the 30+ K to 90K with installation.

The steam guages cost a whole lot less and in what I have seen, that is pretty accurate.

One mention...now is the time to buy if you have the finances. YOu can get existing projects for good prices.
 
RV-8 costs

The estimator comes pretty close to my actual costs (allowing for a bit of inflation since I finished 3 years ago). I think it assumes a fairly basic panel, which is all you need for VFR flying. If you want a fancier panel or other options the sky is the limit.

Building definitely has its own rewards, and I strongly disagree with the idea that you need a 40x40 workshop, massive amounts of time and money, A&P license, etc. I built my plane in my garage while working a demanding day job, as have many others. This is a great way to go if you enjoy building, and the feeling of leaving the ground for first time in a an airplane that came out of your garage is incomparable.

On the other hand if you just want an airplane soon, buy one.
 
danielhv said:
Im kinda a hybrid... I started this wanting to have an airplane, didnt MIND building but figured I'd suffer my way through it... So far, I have learned to really enjoy building. I look forward to it each day. And I'm learning alot too. So why didn't I just buy one? Couldn't afford it... this way I can spread the cost out over however many years I want!
Click to expand...

I agree with Daniel. I couldn't afford or justify buying an 80-100k airplane.
I was able to pay cash for the kits and sold my spam can when ready for the engine & fwf.
I was never comfortable working on my cherkoee, but with the learning process derived from building, I'm very confident in doing any & all maintenance. My original decision to build was also accelerated when I began experiencing all the shoddy maintenance from my A&P. No offense from the good A&Ps out there.
 
wv4i said:
Per the above, I think I can add something to this discussion.

Unless you have a nearby, properly heated/cooled facility that's at least 40' x 40', good luck.
Click to expand...

I would be willing to bet that over 75% of all of the RV'S ever built were built in a NORMAL two car garage.................
.
.
 
Different perspective

I agree in principle that one shouldn't build unless the idea of building really appeals to them, but someone who decides to build to get the airplane they want is not surely doomed to failure. I know this for sure because that is my case.

I never tinkered with cars and didn't like changing the oil or adjusting the valves. I did build some RC models, but that is because I had to to get the flying model.

I really really like to fly and knew I wanted an RV. I shopped for maybe a year, but was never able to find the airplane that was acceptable to me. Just because I don't like to tinker, doesn't mean that I necessarily can't recognize poor workmanship!

When the quickbuild tipups first became available I put my order in. A little over two years later I was flying my dream airplane that was built in rental space of a television repair shop.

The deal is though that I am not typical in many ways. I am single so could spend the time on the project that I felt necessary without feeling I was neglecting my family. Also, I am pretty stubborn and had made the decision that this is what I was going to do.

I am very happy I made the decision to build an airplane and I still hate working on it.
 
And others.....

gasman said:
I would be willing to bet that over 75% of all of the RV'S ever built were built in a NORMAL two car garage.................
.
.
Click to expand...
........were built in a single car garage with a dirt floor, as in my case, when I built the Cassutt. Po' boy really wanting an airplane to race, badly...1972. Wing built in the living room!
my.php
[/URL][/IMG]


Yes, it can be done,
 
Is definetely the way i (have) to go....

danielhv said:
Im kinda a hybrid... I started this wanting to have an airplane, didnt MIND building but figured I'd suffer my way through it... So far, I have learned to really enjoy building. I look forward to it each day. And I'm learning alot too. So why didn't I just buy one? Couldn't afford it... this way I can spread the cost out over however many years I want!
Click to expand...


I can't afford to buy a plane now. If i start building I know that it's going to take long, ... very long.
I have to take advance of all offers in materials and parts shown up in classifieds here and there and buy them cash only.
I have to apply this : http://www.vansairforce.net/how.htm for many years to go and have a passion and commitment.
And may God help me to go ahead.

thanks
 
Build or Buy?

I?m a ?high time? student pilot about to finally take my PPL check ride and have been trying to get a handle on how I?ll both afford to fly and build a -7A at the same time.

I?ve been telling my wife that once I get the PPL we?ll be able to rent a plane for trips to the relatives, etc. I?ve started looking into buying a Cherokee or Grumman but something tells me I could do a lot of rental flying for what I?ll have to lay out for my own ?spam can?. We?ve started saving a specific amount each month toward buying or building, just to see if our budget can handle the monthly drain. I?d like to save up enough for each kit and build as I go. My wife, though not opposed the the building project, sees making those family trips right now! Either way, I?ll still have to stay current with rentals.

Would appreciate any thoughts on this. :)
 
Seems like there was a discussion on just this within the last year or so. My view is just rent. Ownership can be expensive and you may not be able to sell the plane. If you are going to buy...buy an RV.
 
my 2 cents

There are a lot more experienced people here than me, but I have been an owner (Cherokee 235) and am now a builder (7A), and I rented before buying the Cherokee and after selling it. I am currently a flight club member renting while building the RV.

My advice is if you want a fixed cost every month, renting is the only way to guarantee that. When you're done flying, you don't think about it. The BLANK (fill in piece of equipment) fails on a flight... You call the owner or tell the flight school about it, then go home and relax. As an owner, you will see dollar signs every where you look. The other downside of owning is that the plane costs you X amount every month whether you fly it or not. With renting, if you have some other big expense that month, you can just skip flying and you have $0 out of pocket.

The other advice I would give is as a new pilot, don't buy or build anything right now. Rent for a year, at least, to see how you use your flying. You may find out your wife doesn't like to fly... The airport's too far away from your house... You can't find somebody to watch the dog... or whatever it may be... It's been my experience (and I did the same thing) people just coming off their PPL have a lot of ideas about how and when they'll fly... And a year later, the reality is totally different.

Like I said, just my 2 cents. There are certainly a lot of benefits to owning your own plane, but I like to make sure prospective buyers see all the downsides because people tend to view ownership with rose colored glasses.
 
md9680 said:
I?m a ?high time? student pilot about to finally take my PPL check ride and have been trying to get a handle on how I?ll both afford to fly and build a -7A at the same time.

Would appreciate any thoughts on this. :)
Click to expand...

I am a "mid time" student pilot checking off the boxes so I can take my checkride. I plan to build when I am done and I can't afford to build and fly at the same time either.

My plan to stay current is this: Have "flying friends". I have the fortune of working with someone who was a Navy pilot and flight instructor for the last 8 years. He can't really afford to "fly it alone" either and neither of our wives see the joy in it. So, what we are gonna do is go flying together in a plane rented from a private instructor (cheaper than the FBO by far) and split the cost and time. We both get our flying fix and can get a couple of hours each a month to stay current.

practice positive transfer of controls and always know who is flying the plane (before somebody else says it:rolleyes:)

With any luck he can help me with my "carrier landings" too!

So I would say spend some time hanging around the airport before and after your lessons. No telling who you might find in the same situation as you are.
 
Another perspective on owning

Having owned before I second the previous comments about the costs involved, with one caveat. If you plan a serious amount of travel, renting is really much more of a pain than owning. I think renting for travel will give you a skewed view of the amount of hassle involved in flying.

For example, at many FBOs you would have a hard time renting a plane for a whole weekend, becuase they are booked up with students. Most of them have minimum charges if you take the plane overnight, too. And if you book for a whole weekend and then cancel because of weather, you may get the stink-eye treatment. If you own, the plane will always be waiting for you.

If you own, you can leave the plane set up just the way you like it, with your headsets, charts, fuel sampler, extra quart of oil and rags, etc., and they will be there when you want them.

Also, while you do have to pay for repairs, you don't have to worry about what the previous careless renter has broken in the airplane when you get into it, or what maintenance items the FBO has deferred. No playing "guess which part of the avionics stack is INOP today".

You can buy a Cessna 150/152 for $25K or less, some much less (no more than an extra new car). A Cherokee might be $5 or $8K more. Yes it will be old and slow but it will be simple and safe and might even be IFR equipped. If you don't have kids it will be fine to travel in, and you can get your IFR ticket in it.

That being said, as a data point, you could probably expect to budget $400 to $500 per month to own something like a C150. That counts the loan, insurance, taxes, tiedown rent, and an annual inspection. That would cover a reasonable amount of "little maintenance surprises" that come up. That does not count a maintenance reserve or fuel.
 
JHines said:
That being said, as a data point, you could probably expect to budget $400 to $500 per month to own something like a C150. That counts the loan, insurance, taxes, tiedown rent, and an annual inspection. That would cover a reasonable amount of "little maintenance surprises" that come up. That does not count a maintenance reserve or fuel.
Click to expand...

Budgeting is a good idea, but owning can bite you with a big expense like the engine needing rebuilt because of a major problem or hail damage or an annual from ****. Renting is a much more controllable cost.

I agree with all the positives you pointed out about owning. I wouldn't have it any other way... And I didn't want to be all doom and gloom, but I feel like most people that have never owned tend to see more of the positive things than the negative. Everybody's done it. When you really want something, you tend to favor the positive things. That's why I always try to illuminate all the negatives.
 
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD...BUY!!!!!

I am very happy I made the decision to build an airplane and I still hate working on it.
__________________
Larry Pardue

Larry, fellow RVers

Your comment I cut and paste above describes me to a 'T'. I have previoulsy bought and owned 6 RV type aircraft (3 RV-4s, 1 RV-6, 1 RV-8, 1 Rocket) and finally succumbed to building my own RV-4 because a) I like them best and b) I wanted to build an RV-4 that really fit me (I'm tall) and wanted the mods I liked (Fastback, Sam James Cowl, longer pilot cockpit, O-360, CS, Glass panel). And I thought I could build one cheaper than buying one....IDIOT! And so I've been building for two years and two months and just this week moved my recently painted project to the airport for the last 10% (90%) of the completion. And could have bought a GREAT already-built RV-4/plane for what I have in my project!

While it has been fun to see the almost completed project build before my eyes in the ways I wanted it, in general I have hated the building process and the slavery to the project, with many fine weekends and evenings 'wasted' on my RV-4. However, and again, it is the only way I could get what I wanted in a -4. And hopefully this Spring I will fly my plane and it will not suck....with all the mods, who knows.

I can honestly say I have loved all the planes I bought in the past, especially the -4s and the -6 I fly now. While I did not build them, I 'learned' them and had NO TROUBLE with them and did all the upkeep work myself, with an A & P signing my Condition Inspection every year ($200).

If you have the money available, even if you don't fly enough, buy a plane. The cost of enjoyment can not be over estimated and the fear I have of renting other peoples problems is more expensive than my fixed costs. Lastly, if you are thinking of aviation NEVER, EVER THINK OF COST! It will just depress you!

This post may have just confused you but, again, Larry P, GREAT QUOTE!
 
md9680 said:
I?m a ?high time? student pilot about to finally take my PPL check ride and have been trying to get a handle on how I?ll both afford to fly and build a -7A at the same time.

I?ve been telling my wife that once I get the PPL we?ll be able to rent a plane for trips to the relatives, etc. I?ve started looking into buying a Cherokee or Grumman but something tells me I could do a lot of rental flying for what I?ll have to lay out for my own ?spam can?.

Would appreciate any thoughts on this. :)
Click to expand...

I have a different perspective for the new pilots asking this question. I think you should be putting yourself in a situation where it's easy for you to build up time and experience. Building a plane certainly won't help that right off the bat, and even renting is tough. I've known too many new pilots who faded out of flying because of renter grind, all thinking they could not afford to buy. After all you've invested getting the ticket, just do whatever you can that pushes you to keep flying a lot. Owning will do that quite effectively, and owning brings its own rewards and experience.

From a pure financial view, renting is generally cheaper than owning if you fly less than 100 hours/year in your average cessna or piper. YMMV. (Your math may vary). After that, the money advantage begins to tilt to the owner. And the owner is much more likely to fly more than 100 hours a year, because most of the costs are fixed. So logically, if you want to fly more than 100 hours/year, you should consider owning as a having a financial edge.

If you can afford an RV, great. You'll have the superfecta: speed, economy, aerobatics, and cruise comfort. If not, go browse barnstormer for an aeronca or 150 or ...
 
It would be interesting to see how much the typical owner flies yearly. Around here it is hardly 100 hours. Many planes fly less than 10 hours or so. RVs most likely fly more than the average but I am just guessing.
 
DBone said:
Budgeting is a good idea, but owning can bite you with a big expense like the engine needing rebuilt because of a major problem or hail damage or an annual from ****. Renting is a much more controllable cost.

I agree with all the positives you pointed out about owning. I wouldn't have it any other way... And I didn't want to be all doom and gloom, but I feel like most people that have never owned tend to see more of the positive things than the negative. Everybody's done it. When you really want something, you tend to favor the positive things. That's why I always try to illuminate all the negatives.
Click to expand...

Yes, excellent point on the big-time surprises. I had one or two myself, not the heart-stoppers I've heard stories about, but not pleasant nonetheless.

Personally, that is the number one reason I decided to build - to control the total cost of ownership, through:

(1) drastically reduced labor costs - crack a jug? R&R it yourself. Take 20 hours to do a minor sheetmetal repair? No problem - it's only your time.

(2) drastically reduced parts costs - no $150 "Brand C" panel light dimmers. Oh, and no #@*%&! items like sheet metal screws specified in a proprietary system to make it hard to find AN/MS replacements.

I suppose those same advantages would apply if one were to buy an already-built experimental.
 
Do both Buy and Build

Thanos
Do both. First buy a Cherokee 140 for $25k so you have something to fly now. Just owning versus renting is a big psychological advantage. If you own, you will fly. If you own, you'll learn lots about maintaining it. If you rent you probably wont. Then after you've got your flying habit covered, buy a 7A Kit, some tools and start learning and building and enjoy the process without being in a rush.
 
A quick search of the internet popular sales sites...Trade a Plane, Controller, Barnstormers reveals close to 60 RVs and Rockets for sale with asking prices between $30,000 and $120,000. RVs and Rockets are now regularly popping up on e bay where they did not used to.

If you can afford it in this economy now is the time to buy and there is no better deal out there than an RV.

I am almost certain everyone of these planes cost way more to build than their asking price and I am also fairly sure that if they sell it will be at less than the asking price.

This is truly a buyers market.

Historically e bay usually has about 130-150 aircraft listed for sale. Lately it has regularly exceeded 300. When they do not sell they are relisted at a lower price.

If you are in the market for a light twin they are almost being given away.

If you are not sure about buy vs build buy. You can almost get more for the parts than the current asking prices.
 
What about a partnership?

I'm concidering a partnership with 2 to 4 partners in owning a plane. This should be cheaper since we're splitting costs.
This allow me a couple of things.

1-give me a little time to see if my wife (which has never really flown in a small plane) time to decide if she likes it.

2-allows me as a low time pilot (still working on PPL) to decide what type of flying I like. As in more local low and slow or cross country.(I'm thinking I need two planes, but there is always the $$$)

3-I will keep putting money back to buy or began to build when the time is right.

4-Can still keep current without dealing with the hassle of renting. (sort-of)
At least it seems cheaper than 100-120 per hour.

5- I really do think I would fly more if I owned or had access to a plane almost anytime. There has been days when I would have flown, but the rental not available, after hours, etc.

And the Bad:
1-depends how much the partner/s fly. Is plane available when I want it?

2-What do I do when I want out of the partnership?

Just my thoughts, But I'm still a rookie and open to your thoughts,
 
Last edited:
There is an excellent book called aircraft Partnership by Szurovy that describes how to structure a partnership.

Clearly two important aspects that you need to solidify up front are... (as you mentioned) how do I get out and the other is how do you get someone else out.

You must remember when you or another partner leave it puts a significant financial burden on those who remain so structiure a prolonged buyout for exiting members.

Another critical item to cover up front is that divorce or death triggers an automatic buyout. You do not want your plane tied up in a divorce battle or by a probate judge.
 
JHines said:
...Also, while you do have to pay for repairs, you don't have to worry about what the previous careless renter has broken in the airplane when you get into it, or what maintenance items the FBO has deferred. No playing "guess which part of the avionics stack is INOP today"...
Click to expand...
Good points.

For me another problem with renting was scheduling, you just couldn?t go fly on a whim. I had to reserve a plane weeks in advance, then if the weather crapped out, you had to get back ?in line?.

Years ago an old friend who used to manage a flying club told me about the time he found a badly cracked motor mount on a just returned rental that he was preflighting.
 
Pallet said:
I'm concidering a partnership with 2 to 4 partners in owning a plane. This should be cheaper since we're splitting costs.
Click to expand...

AOPA has some good partnership material, too. I think most people in a partnership go into them concerned about not getting the plane when they want it, but they end up finding that is rarely a problem. I owned a plane with one other person for years and rarely had a conflict. We often used the plane together, and sometimes even gave each other good "twist my arm" excuses to go flying. I've heard the same even with partnerships of three or four.

Partnerships are a great way to get started with ownership. It definitely saves on the costs, but also it's a good learning experience as invariably every pilot will bring unique experience and knowledge into the partnership.

Good luck.
 
buy buy buy. or rent until you can.

Mel said:
If you have to ask this question, you should definitely buy.

You should build an airplane because you want to build an airplane. Not because you want an airplane.
Click to expand...

this thread could have stopped on mels post.:D
 
sglynn said:
Thanos
Do both. First buy a Cherokee 140 for $25k so you have something to fly now. Just owning versus renting is a big psychological advantage. If you own, you will fly. If you own, you'll learn lots about maintaining it. If you rent you probably wont. Then after you've got your flying habit covered, buy a 7A Kit, some tools and start learning and building and enjoy the process without being in a rush.
Click to expand...

Thanks Steve but if i was able to afford to buy right now make sure i will do it.;) I can cover my flying habit by renting as well.

N395V said:
A quick search of the internet popular sales sites...Trade a Plane, Controller, Barnstormers reveals close to 60 RVs and Rockets for sale with asking prices between $30,000 and $120,000. RVs and Rockets are now regularly popping up on e bay where they did not used to.

If you can afford it in this economy now is the time to buy and there is no better deal out there than an RV.

I am almost certain everyone of these planes cost way more to build than their asking price and I am also fairly sure that if they sell it will be at less than the asking price.

This is truly a buyers market.

Historically e bay usually has about 130-150 aircraft listed for sale. Lately it has regularly exceeded 300. When they do not sell they are relisted at a lower price.

If you are in the market for a light twin they are almost being given away.

If you are not sure about buy vs build buy. You can almost get more for the parts than the current asking prices.
Click to expand...

Milt, as I said above i can't afford to buy at least now. Unfortunately economy hits me hard right now and the thread question is if actually building than buying may save you money, but seems is the other way around(for the total cost).
Currently i can only start a very slow building.

Pallet said:
I'm concidering a partnership with 2 to 4 partners in owning a plane. This should be cheaper since we're splitting costs.
This allow me a couple of things.

1-give me a little time to see if my wife (which has never really flown in a small plane) time to decide if she likes it.

2-allows me as a low time pilot (still working on PPL) to decide what type of flying I like. As in more local low and slow or cross country.(I'm thinking I need two planes, but there is always the $$$)

3-I will keep putting money back to buy or began to build when the time is right.

4-Can still keep current without dealing with the hassle of renting. (sort-of)
At least it seems cheaper than 100-120 per hour.

5- I really do think I would fly more if I owned or had access to a plane almost anytime. There has been days when I would have flown, but the rental not available, after hours, etc.

And the Bad:
1-depends how much the partner/s fly. Is plane available when I want it?

2-What do I do when I want out of the partnership?

Just my thoughts, But I'm still a rookie and open to your thoughts,
Click to expand...


Todd, partnership is always in my mind, but sometimes is difficult to achieved, special on areas that RVs are not that "popular". I'm not in Texas or CA.


cytoxin said:
buy buy buy. or rent until you can.

this thread could have stopped on mels post.:D
Click to expand...


William, Mel is a very experienced person, and the Build or Buy question was to determine if building is cheaper or more expensive way of owing an RV.
I think that many people are considering building so they can spread the cost into many years of building.
Of course a large percentage never make it through the hassle of building, working, make a living etc, and finally abandon the project.
I like to build something to fly with it, not for the building itself.:)
I wish i can afford to buy a flying RV and i can learn to do maintenance with a help of somebody.

As TSwezey said:
Some people just like to build! Some like to fly and some like to build and fly!

I would like to be the latter.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top