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the ADS-B rebate program is ON again !

Probably not eligible, but...?

We had the Navworx EXP working for awhile...
Then we had the uAvionix Echo, which worked for us briefly. After difficulties, we removed it, and we do not currently have ADS-B out.

We never applied for the rebate, first time around (EXP didn't qualify, and we tried the Echo after the first rebate program ended), but we had flights with our tail number broadcasting ADS-B out when we had the Navworx and Echo units. I'm guessing we'd be disqualified from the new rebate program for that reason. Any thoughts otherwise?
 
They are having issues with the page. Will try again later to see if it is just overloaded right now.
 
We had the Navworx EXP working for awhile...
Then we had the uAvionix Echo, which worked for us briefly. After difficulties, we removed it, and we do not currently have ADS-B out.

We never applied for the rebate, first time around (EXP didn't qualify, and we tried the Echo after the first rebate program ended), but we had flights with our tail number broadcasting ADS-B out when we had the Navworx and Echo units. I'm guessing we'd be disqualified from the new rebate program for that reason. Any thoughts otherwise?

I was disqualified in the Stearman as I had a Garmin 496 driving the Trig Mode S transponder for a few years. They told me since they already detected OUT from the aircraft, it was ineligible, even though the GPS source did not meet the WAAS requirements. I was not happy! I've already made mine compliant, but I do hope they change that requirement.

Vic
 
Thanks, Vic -

I wrote the FAA an email giving my details (including explaining why there would be past ADS-B out records), and I'll report back here if/when I receive a response. I'm not too optimistic, but it's worth a try.

Cheers,
Doug

I was disqualified in the Stearman as I had a Garmin 496 driving the Trig Mode S transponder for a few years. They told me since they already detected OUT from the aircraft, it was ineligible, even though the GPS source did not meet the WAAS requirements. I was not happy! I've already made mine compliant, but I do hope they change that requirement.

Vic
 
I was not happy! I've already made mine compliant, but I do hope they change that requirement.

Vic

Doesn't appear they have...

"Rebates are not available for aircraft already equipped or for which the FAA has paid or committed to upgrade."
 
Lowest cost

I don't have a WAAS GPS. For me, it looks like the GDL 82 is the lowest cost option available right now at about $1795. Any others that I'm missing?
 
Something to consider. We were looking at the GDL 82 as the best option for an aircraft that we have. Once we realized that we would be using the existing existing KT76a with a pretty old Klystron Tube transmitter we concluded that we may be better off looking at one of the new family of transponders with a solid state transmitter as an option.

We are considering the Stratus ESG 1090ES, Garmin GTX 335 as examples. We also took a look at 978 MHz UAT vs. 1090 MHz in our trade study. At the end of the day updating the transponder, getting rid of the altitude encoder and the KT76a made financial sense in the long run.

There will be many of the older tube based transponders available on the used market at low prices so the GDL 82 may be a good option for many others as well.

-larosta
 
Guess I am going with the GDL 82, there goes my flights above FL 180.

For $500 I will gimp my RV-10 and stay out of the flight levels.
 
A lot depends on what if anything you already have. I already had a working ADSB-in system (SkyRadar D2 displayed on iPad and GRT screen), and a Garmin 420W which was capable of being a position source. So I sold my 327, bought a Trig TT22 (remote controlled thru the GRT HX), got the rebate (last time around), so ended up compliant for under $1K net. (Not counting what I started with!!) As a plus, I gained a bit of useful load and aft cg range by remote-mounting the Trig forward of the panel.
EDIT: So my dreams of trying it out in the flight levels are still alive!
 
I was disqualified in the Stearman as I had a Garmin 496 driving the Trig Mode S transponder for a few years. They told me since they already detected OUT from the aircraft, it was ineligible, even though the GPS source did not meet the WAAS requirements. I was not happy! I've already made mine compliant, but I do hope they change that requirement.

Vic

That?s really disappointing.

Seems like the FAA is talking out of both sides of their mouth. I have a similar setup as Vic described. Mode S Trig transponder with a non-compliant position source. This obviously doesn?t meet the mandate, but yet it?s considered ?compliant enough?? to keep me from receiving a rebate?

Since my system is the same as Vic?s and I fly 3 days a week, I have to assume I?m in the system. Is there a way to check and know for sure short of submitting for the rebate?

I?m talking about my Midget Mustang here(N881MM), not my RV3.
 
I don't have a WAAS GPS. For me, it looks like the GDL 82 is the lowest cost option available right now at about $1795. Any others that I'm missing?

There are cheaper options that will use the existing transponder. As I recall from looking into it about a year and half ago, there were uavionix and Levil Beacon.

There was some chat about the Uavionix here, and maybe other places, too.
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=145489

There was also the L3 Lynx NGT-1000, which required a digital transponder to work, but there are lots of 327 and 330s around for that.

I'm not sure what the current status of those 3 is, as I haven't looked into it since then, and I'm now leaning toward a Garmin 335R if/when I do it.
 
That’s really disappointing.

Seems like the FAA is talking out of both sides of their mouth. I have a similar setup as Vic described. Mode S Trig transponder with a non-compliant position source. This obviously doesn’t meet the mandate, but yet it’s considered “compliant enough?” to keep me from receiving a rebate?

Since my system is the same as Vic’s and I fly 3 days a week, I have to assume I’m in the system. Is there a way to check and know for sure short of submitting for the rebate?

I’m talking about my Midget Mustang here(N881MM), not my RV3.

If the FAA answer is "yes", then the rebate would apply to those of us (I'm sure there are quite a few) that are flying around with Dynon transponder systems but still using the original Dynon SV-GPS-250 non-WASS antenna.

If it does apply then the $500 rebate will cover almost all of the cost ($570) of the newer, certified, drop-in replacement position source Dynon SV-GPS-2020 antenna.
 
What a crock. People who have equipped since the last rebate should be able to apply and retroactively receive the rebate. I?ve lost more money through this ADSB fiasco than anything else in aviation. Between navworx and wrong timing, I?m over it.
 
Avidyne got me

I know how you feel. I purchased a brand new Avidyne 540 and have it in a box unregistered waiting to get it installed in my Comanche by "certified" shop. Avidyne announced a rebate if you wanted to purchase an L3 also. Since all my stuff is still boxed up, I said sure, I'll go with the L3 also. Avidyne rep said too bad, should have waited a month before purchasing. The problem is that with all the avionics shops backed up by months, you have to purchase early. Now that I got the L3 and waiting on getting that installed, it probably appears that I may have missed the new window for ADSB rebate. Can't win for nothing.



What a crock. People who have equipped since the last rebate should be able to apply and retroactively receive the rebate. I?ve lost more money through this ADSB fiasco than anything else in aviation. Between navworx and wrong timing, I?m over it.
 
I know how you feel. I purchased a brand new Avidyne 540 and have it in a box unregistered waiting to get it installed in my Comanche by "certified" shop. Avidyne announced a rebate if you wanted to purchase an L3 also. Since all my stuff is still boxed up, I said sure, I'll go with the L3 also. Avidyne rep said too bad, should have waited a month before purchasing. The problem is that with all the avionics shops backed up by months, you have to purchase early. Now that I got the L3 and waiting on getting that installed, it probably appears that I may have missed the new window for ADSB rebate. Can't win for nothing.

If it isn?t installed yet, you should still qualify for the rebate.
 
What a crock. People who have equipped since the last rebate should be able to apply and retroactively receive the rebate. I?ve lost more money through this ADSB fiasco than anything else in aviation. Between navworx and wrong timing, I?m over it.

This! We have two aircraft we equipped this year, that's $1000 we could be getting back, no small sum of money.
 
I upgraded my RV to a GTX 345 last year and got the rebate for that aircraft. I am now getting ready to put a GTX 345 in my Cessna 150 (along with a full Garmin stack of other stuff).

Will I be able to qualify for the $500 rebate on the Cessna or am I limited to only one rebate reguardles of the number of aircraft I own and upgrade to ADSB-OUT?
 
Is new ADSB rebate available for Experimental?

I found the following FAQ on the FAA web site describing the new rebate program. From this language, it appears that EXP will not be able to take advantage of the new rebate program. Is this interpretation correct, or am I missing something?

Why is only TSO-certified equipment eligible for this program?
Since the rebate program is aimed at this segment of the GA community, only TSO-certified Version 2 equipment is eligible. The cost of TSO-certified equipment is typically higher than similar equipment that isn't certified, making it less affordable for cost-sensitive customers.

https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/rebate/faq/#q2

Wayne
N1179J. 9a.
 
TSO

Appear you are correct. You can still install it in your experimental aircraft, but you must buy TSO version 2 equipment to qualify for the rebate.
 
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Uavionics

Appear you are correct. You can still install it in your experimental aircraft, but you must buy TSO version 2 equipment to qualify for the rebate.

I was excited for the rebate news BUT you're correct, has to be TSO'd. I was planning on going the uavionics /echo uat route which gives me ADS-B in and out but now I wonder if I should spend $1000 more to get a $500 rebate? Is there anything close?
 
?Certified Installer??

I?m a bit confused about who is eligible to install the TSO?d equipment to obtain this latest rebate.

The rebate guidelines state the following:
?Discuss your plans with a certified installer to ensure it will work correctly. Once you schedule your appointment to install the TSO-certified avionics, you are ready to reserve your rebate.?

However, the .PDF rules do not mention a requirement for a certified installer.
As experimental owners, can we install the TSO?d equipment AND be eligible for this latest rebate?

As an aside, the closest ADS-B ?Out? TSO?d system to the uAvionix Echo (non-TSO?d) system, cost-wise, appears to be the Garmin GDL-82. A separate ADS-B ?in? solution would still need to be added to the GDL-82 to be comparable in features.
Regards,
Dale
 
Echo ads b

Looks like non tso?d units are not eligible, just installed my unit Friday . Does not give option for rebate for this unit
 
After thinking on this for a while I think I?ve figured out my answer how to get the rebate for those of us who became compliant between rebates. Change the n number and start over. Should be easy as my n numbers are just vinyl and not painted on.....
 
Renewed rebate hope

This may be good news if you're in our situation....

I emailed the FAA at [email protected], sharing the info from my earlier post (#3) in this thread:

We had the Navworx EXP working for awhile...
Then we had the uAvionix Echo, which worked for us briefly. After difficulties, we removed it, and we do not currently have ADS-B out.

We never applied for the rebate, first time around (EXP didn't qualify, and we tried the Echo after the first rebate program ended), but we had flights with our tail number broadcasting ADS-B out when we had the Navworx and Echo units.

In my email to them, I also wrote:

The FAA records will show that we have had occasional acceptable ADS-B out reports in the past from these two units. We have not previously applied for a rebate on ADS-B installation.

Would we be eligible to apply for a rebate under the reinstated program? (We are considering either the Appareo ESG or Garmin 335.)​

Just got this back:

If you have not previously received a rebate, you will qualify. We will be in touch within a week regarding how you can apply. Thanks.​
 
I upgraded my RV to a GTX 345 last year and got the rebate for that aircraft. I am now getting ready to put a GTX 345 in my Cessna 150 (along with a full Garmin stack of other stuff).

Will I be able to qualify for the $500 rebate on the Cessna or am I limited to only one rebate reguardles of the number of aircraft I own and upgrade to ADSB-OUT?

It is per each aircraft.

Vic

The FAA website FAQ clearly states it is one rebate per aircraft owner. The form I filled out for my rebate (the last period) asked "have you ever received the......rebate?" yes = not eligible to apply.
 
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I heard back from uavionix and they said unless it's a tso'd unit it doesn't qualify but the tso'd tail beacon isn't available yet and that will be $350 more.

Why does it seem like we (experimental owners) help to fast track the certification process but we don't get a very good reward for doing so.
 
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I heard back from uavionix and they said unless it's a tso'd unit it doesn't qualify but the tso'd tail beacon isn't available yet and that will be $350 more.

Why does it seem like we (experimental owners) help to fast track the certification process but we don't get a very good reward for doing so.

Yep. And I don't want to go down the path of "sour grapes" for myself, because that's not a healthy approach, BUT...

This whole rebate program seems off-kilter. One, what difference does it make if it's a certified plane, a TSO'd unit, an experimental, or a solution that "meets the TSO" (a la Dynon Skyview's XPDR+WAAS GPS)? Isn't the idea to get the fleet equipped?

And second, this should have been rolled out *much* earlier...all they've done is encourage the certified fleet to continue putting it off until later, which will likely result in a crush of people trying to equip late in 2019 (and what vendor wouldn't take advantage of a sudden increase in demand to raise prices?). And then ended much earlier, as well. You snooze, you lose sort of thing.

All that said, I don't regret for a moment installing the complete ADS-B in and out package from Dynon as soon as they were available. The traffic and weather capabilities are nothing short of terrific, with more coming all the time (new weather products on the horizon), and I'm 2020-compliant.
 
This whole rebate program seems off-kilter. One, what difference does it make if it's a certified plane, a TSO'd unit, an experimental, or a solution that "meets the TSO" (a la Dynon Skyview's XPDR+WAAS GPS)? Isn't the idea to get the fleet equipped?

Well remember that the FAA can?t do anything unless Congress passes the appropriation bill first. Seems I read recently that FAA was just funded for several years just recently so I expect timing was related.

As they say, ?write your congressman (or woman) but that assumes they can read, :)
 
This from the FAA web site FAQ section:

Why is the rebate program limited to one rebate per owner?

To address the target audience, the FAA is limiting the rebate to one per owner. This helps focus the incentive on the largest group of aircraft owners with the greatest cost concerns. Also, tax regulations would have required additional processing for payments in excess of $600 per individual. This would have imposed an additional administrative burden on the FAA, would have required more information from the applicant, and would have delayed users from receiving their rebates. Owners of multiple eligible aircraft may only apply for one rebate.

SOoooo...although I got the rebate for the RV, I can not receive a rebate for the Cessna 150.
 
So let me know I have the gist of this thread:

This rebate is essentially irrelevant for us in the EAB community unless we want to purchase/install TSO'd equipment for which we will almost certainly pay more for the "TSO" than we would ever get back in the form of the rebate? Sound about right?

If so, I'll continue waiting until 2020 as I have been for the last few years.
 
Agree!

So let me know I have the gist of this thread:

This rebate is essentially irrelevant for us in the EAB community unless we want to purchase/install TSO'd equipment for which we will almost certainly pay more for the "TSO" than we would ever get back in the form of the rebate? Sound about right?

If so, I'll continue waiting until 2020 as I have been for the last few years.

I agree with you, I gave in and just ordered the Echo UAT
 
I contacted the EAA for the first time and requested their help. Below is their reply.

???????????-

Hello Axel,

EAA did contact the FAA to get this requirement changed during the first rebate. Unfortunately, the FAA held their position that non-TSOed equipment already comes at a lower price, and the rebate is intended to reduce the cost imposed on those required to install the more expensive TSOed equipment.

Please let me know if I can answer any other questions.

Best,

Lily Johnson - EAA #1274875
Government Advocacy Specialist
EAA-The Spirit of Aviation
 
Hello Axel,

EAA did contact the FAA to get this requirement changed during the first rebate. Unfortunately, the FAA held their position that non-TSOed equipment already comes at a lower price, and the rebate is intended to reduce the cost imposed on those required to install the more expensive TSOed equipment.

This is so head-slappingly stupid it hurts...
 
Seems like experimentals are just better off taking the already few hundred dollars less for the non-TSOed equipment, and not dealing with the government rebate mess. You have to have a shop install the TSO stuff as well to qualify for the rebate, right? They charge, what, $1,000 to do what, a 4-8 hour installation?

Even if it takes me a day or two, seems like just getting the right equipment is well over half the battle.

I have yet to study it that much, but also thinking about going with the Stratus ESG.
 
If it isn?t installed yet, you should still qualify for the rebate.

Have you confirmed that or is it speculation? I bought a Garmin 23 transponder a couple of months ago for my 10 that should be flying by March.

Larry
 
And second, this should have been rolled out *much* earlier....

Not to defend the FAA, but the timing of this rebate program would lead one to speculate that it was desired some time ago, but couldn't proceed until their funding was re-up'ed. The FAA has had almost 9 months of uncertainty on their 2019 and beyond funding. This rebate program was announced only a month after the funding bill was passed. Mordenization was a center piece of the argument for the long term funding.

Larry
 
Uavionix "Out" EXP (NON-TSO) $100-$150 manufacturer Rebate

"We now offer a manufacturer?s rebate program for ADS-B OUT solutions for experimental aircraft owners. The rebate program offers a limited time $100 rebate on the echoUAT+WAAS GPS bundle, or $150 rebate on tailBeacon EXP"

https://uavionix.com/rebate/
 
As I was doing more research on the Stratus ESG, even though the Experimental version is a few hundred less, was hoping to install myself as an option to save about another $1,000, but seen where that voids your warranty. They want you to go to one of their approved dealers. I guess this is common with all?

Although I didn?t build mine, many people behind their experimental planes have built virtually every aspect of their plane, or most of it, from airframe, engine installation, put in their own instruments panels, possibly did their own paint, controls, etc, and Van?s Aircraft often comes out with exceptional builds in all phases of construction. I don?t see engine manufacturers voiding the warranty if you install it yourself, do they?

But yet the ADS-B manufacturers or least the few I have seen thus far have evidently made a cozy deal with their installers, leaving out the DIY folk, or at least ESG voiding their warranty if they install it themselves, so basically discouraging any, and I truly doubt it?s because they think they are not capable of installing it.

Are there any manufacturers that still work with the DIY crowd?
 
I installed a "certified" Stratus ESG in my RV-6 and recieved the $500 FAA rebate. I paid $2150 for the Stratus which put my out-of-pocket cost in the same neighborhood as the 978mhz solutions.....and got a new transponder and WAAS GPS out of the deal. :)
 
Sam, the places I've been looking at for the certified ESG want it shipped to the Appareo dealers that will be doing the installation. Did you get the warranty by doing it yourself? I want to get this done, if possible with the $500.00 rebate on the certified, but not if the installation is going to be $1,000.00.
 
Aircraft Spruce $2,695
However:
"Appareo just called me and there is an issue at the moment with our stock on the ESG. Since the FAA rebate had previously expired they removed their TSO stamping from experimental models to prevent certified aircraft from installing them. Though the units are TSO’d, the FAA requires the TSO stamp to be present to count for this rebate. They are taking back all of our units and exchanging for stamped units, so anything shipping from us will be stamped and eligible for the rebate, however, it may be several weeks before we are able to ship these depending upon how quickly Appareo ships the replacement units. I apologize for any inconvenience."

Where did you get yours, Sam?
 
Sam, the places I've been looking at for the certified ESG want it shipped to the Appareo dealers that will be doing the installation. Did you get the warranty by doing it yourself? I want to get this done, if possible with the $500.00 rebate on the certified, but not if the installation is going to be $1,000.00.

Call Stark Avionics in Columbus, GA to see what they can ship you.
 
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