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Fiberglass Supplier

steve murray

Well Known Member
Just placed an order with "uscomposites" for epoxy, fiberglass, pigment, etc.

There pricing for gallon of West System epoxy was the best I could find. Gallon of resin was $82 gallon and hardener was $32. The guy on the phone was quite helpful.

Steve
 
Better to just avoid West Systems epoxy altogether and use better epoxy for less money.

We recommend the Jeffco 1307 resin. ACS has it at a good price. A one-gallon 'kit' is $87, includes both resin and medium hardener.

My main issue with West Systems, aside from it being really expensive, is that it cold-inhibits. You can do a lay-up with temps in the 60s F, and then before it cures, the temp drops into the mid 50s in the shop. You will get a rubbery part that no amount of post-curing at any temperature will fix. It is scrap.

This will not happen with either Jeffco or MGS epoxy.
 
Better to just avoid West Systems epoxy altogether and use better epoxy for less money.

We recommend the Jeffco 1307 resin. ACS has it at a good price. A one-gallon 'kit' is $87, includes both resin and medium hardener.

My main issue with West Systems, aside from it being really expensive, is that it cold-inhibits. You can do a lay-up with temps in the 60s F, and then before it cures, the temp drops into the mid 50s in the shop. You will get a rubbery part that no amount of post-curing at any temperature will fix. It is scrap.

This will not happen with either Jeffco or MGS epoxy.

This happened to me on the tip-up plexiglass work. Ugly. 70's when done, but dipped into 60's in the garage overnight and would not set. Ended up with some heat gun damage on the canopy while heating to peel/scrape it off. :mad: Just mind the temps.

Steve Murray: Mike's brother, right? Mike and I had a good visit at the 50th MCHS reunion a few months back. USCOMPOSITES does have good prices - I get lots of glass cloth from them, the best price I have found.
 
Steve Murray: Mike's brother, right? Mike and I had a good visit at the 50th MCHS reunion a few months back.

Yes, I am Mike's brother. (My apologies for whatever he did at the reunion...) Are you from Monroeville? Did you work with Mike at VF? Small world.
 
I strictly use MGS for any/all lay-ups, and then use the West Systems for final fill and sanding because it is so EZ to sand.
 
If you can find it:

Epon 862 and Epicure 3234 are base stocks that other shops use to build their own mixtures. Mix ratio 100/15 resin to curing agent.

I found the stuff on Skygeek - pricing is fair for smaller amounts.

The 862 can 'catch a cold' from low temps (crystalize) - simply heat to 140F and the stuff is usable again. Use qt bottles for the resin (purchased in 5 gal buckets), which fit easily into my microwave for heating.

I learned about this setup from an epoxy engineer - he said it was better than the same product mixed with retarders etc. As an example, JB Weld is made with this base stock.

These products have a no-limit shelf life, but keep an eye on the resin if it gets cold while in storage.

If I recall correctly, West System is non-structural.:eek:
 
Epon 862 and Epicure 3234 are base stocks that other shops use to build their own mixtures. Mix ratio 100/15 resin to curing agent.

The 862 can 'catch a cold' from low temps (crystalize) - simply heat to 140F and the stuff is usable again. Use qt bottles for the resin (purchased in 5 gal buckets), which fit easily into my microwave for heating.

These products have a no-limit shelf life, but keep an eye on the resin if it gets cold while in storage.

Yes it is true that Shell Epon is the base stock that most all formulators use to make their epoxy. I think Epon 828 is the straight base stock. Most of the other Epon numbers are different viscosities, and I'm not sure what other modifiers.
Various additives give epoxy different properties, which are normally improvements to the behavior of the base stock.

There is a very wide variety of hardeners. The toxicity/allergenic properties of the different hardeners varies greatly. I think Epikure 3234 is TETA, which IIRC is one of the nastier hardeners.

Jeffco and MGS have about the highest T_g of any room-temperature curing formulations, and the hardener seems to be relatively benign.

When epoxy crystalizes in the container, just warm it up a little and stir. No harm done. Not sure it would be good to put it in a microwave though.
 
Epon 862 and Epicure 3234 are base stocks that other shops use to build their own mixtures. Mix ratio 100/15 resin to curing agent.

I found the stuff on Skygeek - pricing is fair for smaller amounts.

The 862 can 'catch a cold' from low temps (crystalize) - simply heat to 140F and the stuff is usable again. Use qt bottles for the resin (purchased in 5 gal buckets), which fit easily into my microwave for heating.

I learned about this setup from an epoxy engineer - he said it was better than the same product mixed with retarders etc. As an example, JB Weld is made with this base stock.

These products have a no-limit shelf life, but keep an eye on the resin if it gets cold while in storage.

If I recall correctly, West System is non-structural.:eek:

That is quite a statement regarding West Systems if you are really not sure. In reading about West systems it is stated to be structural. Can you give a reference to your information for clarity? I have used it for years and would hate to think that I will fall out of the sky because of bad information???
 
When epoxy crystalizes in the container, just warm it up a little and stir. No harm done. Not sure it would be good to put it in a microwave though.

I've been using Shell DPL 862 for years and pump it out of a metal can. When it crystallizes I just put the can on a hot plate set on low for an hour or so and that takes care of it. In colder temps I will pump 862 into a paper mixing cup then nuke it for 5 seconds. Thats all it takes to give it water-like consistency.
 
...Epicure 3234...

...Also known as straight TETA, Is hands-down the most sensitizing hardener I have ever used. Back in the bad old days we used a lot of TETA with Epon 815C resin, a mix we came to call "Redeye." Now I just think of it as an epoxy allergy distribution system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triethylenetetramine

As Steve notes above, in our shop we use Jeffco 1307/3176 mix from Aircraft Spruce. Yeah, if you want drum quantities of it you can probably replicate it from 862 or 832, or even 828 (the base resin for those stocks), with standard Epon diluents. But it's probably not cost effective unless you need lots, and some of the diluents are pretty nasty chemicals.

The MGS 285 or 335 system is nice because it carries the EASA/LBA stamp of approval, but the properties are about the same as the Jeffco.

[Edit add: Steve already hit all the high points]

--Bob K.
 
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My main issue with West Systems, aside from it being really expensive, is that it cold-inhibits. You can do a lay-up with temps in the 60s F, and then before it cures, the temp drops into the mid 50s in the shop. You will get a rubbery part that no amount of post-curing at any temperature will fix. It is scrap.

I wish I'd seen this post a year ago...

Fortunately when I ran into that issue it was when I was trying to do a squeegee coat. I was able to sand it all off over the course of 2-3 days with lots of elbow grease:mad:
 
Better to just avoid West Systems epoxy altogether and use better epoxy for less money.

We recommend the Jeffco 1307 resin. ACS has it at a good price. A one-gallon 'kit' is $87, includes both resin and medium hardener.

My main issue with West Systems, aside from it being really expensive, is that it cold-inhibits. You can do a lay-up with temps in the 60s F, and then before it cures, the temp drops into the mid 50s in the shop. You will get a rubbery part that no amount of post-curing at any temperature will fix. It is scrap.

This will not happen with either Jeffco or MGS epoxy.

A one gal Jeffco 1307 medium 'kit' from AS is now $159.85. Almost double from less than five years ago. Wow! :eek:
 
I see epoxy wars coming (e.g. primer wars). West systems is fine, however as many others have said, my opinion as well, over priced. There are other products as good (some say better) for less money. West is the "name brand" and people go to, who don't know of the alternatives including me, until I got educated by others who work with fiberglass all the time.

In the big scheme of things epoxy cost is not a big deal but Quantity and shelf life are. Most of our fiberglass parts are pre-made included in kit. The big consideration is shelf life. Buying larger quantities is cheaper, but not if it goes unused and/or goes bad . Plan on doing all your fiberglass at one time[ within a 6 month period. Don't buy too early or too much. If you can share a larger order with another builder and use it up, great.

We don't have truly structural fiberglass, they are fairings. Early RV's fiberglass did not use epoxy. Van used "hot-tub" esters, which worked. Now Van's has some epoxy parts. The great thing about vinyl or poly ester, it was cheap and available at boat, automotive and hardware stores. Read Van's manual section 5 for guidance. Note epoxy can be used to repair vinyl ester or polyester parts if they are fully cured or uncured material is removed first, but vinyl ester resin will not work to repair epoxy parts or to go over a previous epoxy repair. Epoxy in general even if not for a structural part is better (less shrinkage, higher heat tolerance and yes stronger), so epoxy works albeit with higher cost. Again it's small in the big scheme since we use so little of it. Van's old parts like solid laminate polyester cowls (could have been vinyl ester) were heavy and the gel coat cracked over time due to heat and vibration. So yeah for no gel coat epoxy parts, strong, light, less shrinkage Boo for pin holes, lack of local availability and cost. No free lunch rule as usual.

Gear leg intersection fairings, windshield base molding are scratch built fiberglass parts in "situ" (Latin for "in place" or "on site"). Not much epoxy needed. If you need to or plan on modifications of cowl, wingtips, empennage intersection fairing, plus optional composite cooling plenum dog-house you will need more epoxy. Waste is more costly. Expired epoxy is bad epoxy. Sure you might get away with it past best used date. However trying to use epoxy that has started to cure, making crappy parts is a waste of time and materials.
 
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I've been using the Jeffco epoxy per Steve's recommendation and like it. The 1307/3176 combo gives me an adequate pot life and a faster cure than West Marine's slow hardener does.

Haven't had it at elevated temperatures yet.

Dave
 
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