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Pre-Buy Rear wing spar attach issue

Rvglen

Active Member
Hi I hope for some advice. During a pre-buy the following was noted:

"The RH wing rear spar attach bolt area has a second hole drilled too close to the existing attach point. It would be extremely difficult to repair. This area can be seen under the partial wing/fuse fairing above RH flap."

Is there a simple/inexpensive recommended/safe repair or would it require replacement of the rear spar carry through?

Thanks,

Glen
 
...It would be extremely difficult to repair...

...Is there a simple/inexpensive recommended/safe repair...

It seems like your question boils down to, can you trust whomever did the pre-buy?

They are telling you the repair would be difficult, which is basically saying it is the same as complex and expensive. And you are asking, can the repair be simple and inexpensive?

My bet is that it will be one of the other, but not both. And my money would be on expensive and complex.

Here's the thing: For a variety of perfectly rational reasons, the rear spar carrythrough attachments in the wing and in the fuselage are built pretty solidly into their respective parts of the airplane. And for pretty much the same rational reasons, there is not a huge amount of structural margin to the attachment points, so they are somewhat sensitive to damage, extra holes, or liberties with edge clearance. Your pre-buy inspector has done you a solid by discovering this issue now and not at the first condition inspection.

Digging the attachments out requires removal of a bunch of big rivets in awkward places, and is best done carefully and conscientiously by someone who not only knows but cares what they're doing.

If it were me, I'd buy that airplane only if it was steeply discounted and a rocking deal in all other respects. Otherwise I'd run not walk away.

--Bob K.
 
It would be good to know where exactly the extra hole is. Is it in the carry through structure, in the wing spar, or is it just a close tooling hole?

A photo might show you whether it's in an area that could be repaired by adding a doubler?

Still, the previous points made are valid... With the information you have, it should be cheap.
 
without pictures it hard to tell what the solution is. there are fixes from easy to difficult depending on the problem. if the edge distances are ok, a larger bolt may fix the problem. in some cases the only fix is a new carry through and/or new rear spar.

the bigger question is, what other problems that should have been fixed are hiding in places that cannot be seen?

bob burns
RV-4 N82RB
 
On both my first RV-4 rebuild and my current second hand RV-4 project I had issues with the rear spar carry through. The first one actually looked like Swiss cheese it had so many holes. This is not a difficult repair, but it will require removing the floorboards and probably some other things to get to all the rivets that need to be drilled out. The wings will probably have to come off also. If that?s the only major issue I wouldn?t call it a deal breaker but it is definitely a factor in negotiating the selling price.
 
Is this the sort of issue that should have been expected to be caught in the original airworthiness inspection?
 
Is this the sort of issue that should have been expected to be caught in the original airworthiness inspection?
Yes, and No.
It depends on the DAR back then. Things have come a long way in the familiarity DAR?s have with RV airframe issues.
My DAR, back in the day, didn?t dig too far past control system continuity and security, fuel system integrity, etc.... not much time spent at all on the airframe.
Should have been caught? You would hope so, but obviously many have been signed off with this same issue, and more.
 
Is this the sort of issue that should have been expected to be caught in the original airworthiness inspection?

Like JonJay says; Maybe/Maybe not.

Even though most Amateur-Built DARs do a very through inspection, it is not a requirement. The primary requirement is to certify that the aircraft meets the requirements of the "Major Portion" rule.

A certification that doesn't involve a through inspection is most likely to be done by an FAA inspector who isn't familiar with amateur-built aircraft.
 
Like JonJay says; Maybe/Maybe not.

Even though most Amateur-Built DARs do a very through inspection, it is not a requirement. The primary requirement is to certify that the aircraft meets the requirements of the "Major Portion" rule.

A certification that doesn't involve a through inspection is most likely to be done by an FAA inspector who isn't familiar with amateur-built aircraft.

I even asked my DAR about checking things like this. He told me exactly what Mel said and added " Your butt is going in this thing. I hope you followed the plans but that isn't what I am here for."
 
Like JonJay says; Maybe/Maybe not.

Even though most Amateur-Built DARs do a very through inspection, it is not a requirement. The primary requirement is to certify that the aircraft meets the requirements of the "Major Portion" rule.

A certification that doesn't involve a through inspection is most likely to be done by an FAA inspector who isn't familiar with amateur-built aircraft.

I used the FAA and this was true of my inspector, he didn't even want any panels removed except the cowl. He looked over the engine and airframe exterior, wanted to hear it run up to full power, had me better secure some wire behind the panel and looked at paperwork. It definitely would not have caught an issue like this.
 
Many eyes

I used the FAA and this was true of my inspector, he didn't even want any panels removed except the cowl. He looked over the engine and airframe exterior, wanted to hear it run up to full power, had me better secure some wire behind the panel and looked at paperwork. It definitely would not have caught an issue like this.

A very good reason not to pin your safety on a single inspection whoever does it.

Use the FAA to get the paperwork done (free) and then find/hire/feed as many local builders (RV and non-RV) and A&Ps you can get to inspect all of your plane. Don't have an "EAA party", just have them around one at a time so no group dynamics come into play. :)

Many eyes with different skill sets are a good approach.
 
A very good reason not to pin your safety on a single inspection whoever does it.

Use the FAA to get the paperwork done (free) and then find/hire/feed as many local builders (RV and non-RV) and A&Ps you can get to inspect all of your plane. Don't have an "EAA party", just have them around one at a time so no group dynamics come into play. :)

Many eyes with different skill sets are a good approach.

Lots of good points in this thread. I have been inviting different experienced builders from our EAA chapter to come and look, and I agree that one might more varied and complete advice from individuals than from a group where some might defer to greater experience or avoid differences of opinion with strongly opinionated (and yet, skilled) folks.
 
A very good reason not to pin your safety on a single inspection whoever does it.

Use the FAA to get the paperwork done (free) and then find/hire/feed as many local builders (RV and non-RV) and A&Ps you can get to inspect all of your plane. Don't have an "EAA party", just have them around one at a time so no group dynamics come into play. :)

Many eyes with different skill sets are a good approach.

For sure, I had multiple experienced people give mine a lookover during construction and again before I signed it off before the FAA man came.
 
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