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  #11  
Old 03-04-2018, 10:27 AM
rv6ejguy's Avatar
rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chkaharyer99 View Post
"Simple" for who? The builder/supplier or the operator/pilot?

"Is it wise to add many layers of complexity for events which almost never happen?"

It depends on your prespective.
Unfortunately it's not as simple as it appears from the outside- making things all automatic. We get into much more complex software detecting faults and making the call on when to switch to backups. Can we cover every eventuality when it comes to failures? You may also get into the Airbus dilemma- "what is IT (the computer) doing now?"

We simply don't have the resources of a Garmin or Boeing and if we take 2-3 years to create and test all the hardware and software, quite frankly it would be so expensive and late to market, it simply wouldn't be worth it. Flawless automation is often expensive.

What most people would like is a low cost, perfectly automated system- now. The realities of the market and business won't allow those to happen. In the end, the market is a couple hundred ECUs a year and we have to make money to keep the doors open.
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Ross Farnham, Calgary, Alberta
Turbo Subaru EJ22, SDS EFI, Marcotte M-300, IVO, RV6A C-GVZX flying from CYBW since 2003- 424.4 hrs. on the Hobbs,
RV10 95% built- Sold 2016
http://www.sdsefi.com/aircraft.html
http://sdsefi.com/cpi.htm



Last edited by rv6ejguy : 06-14-2018 at 07:11 PM.
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  #12  
Old 03-04-2018, 10:32 AM
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rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmartingt View Post
I probably won't be ready to buy for at least another year, but...

Some form of closed-loop mode (with a toggle switch to enable?) and selectable AFR would be really neat.

RPM and MP defining an array of fuel and timing values instead of independent lists would maybe give a way to automatically go lean at certain conditions?


Basically, I'd just be looking for a way to avoid having to deal with mixture at all. Not having actually used your system yet I can't really think of anything else.
We did something along these lines back in 2007 and it was flight tested in an RV10. Worked well.
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Ross Farnham, Calgary, Alberta
Turbo Subaru EJ22, SDS EFI, Marcotte M-300, IVO, RV6A C-GVZX flying from CYBW since 2003- 424.4 hrs. on the Hobbs,
RV10 95% built- Sold 2016
http://www.sdsefi.com/aircraft.html
http://sdsefi.com/cpi.htm


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  #13  
Old 03-05-2018, 01:04 AM
Patrick14 Patrick14 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Mainz, Germany
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Detonation sensors for alternative/multiple fuel capability,
Provisions for a propeller regulating servo,
Lamda Sensor for exact mixture control in cruise,
Authority over starter relay for automatic startup sequence (priming, mixture according oil temperature and OAT)
Warmup and cool down monitoring and display

Would be nice

Best regards
Patrick
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  #14  
Old 03-05-2018, 07:19 AM
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rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
 
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The Lycoming does not lend itself well to knock sensors due to the individual cylinder layout, high mechanical noise and lack of suitable mounting places for the sensors.

Propeller control would add a lot of cost and at least one more year of development time and validation testing to make happen. Many prefer to leave the prop control manual. I don't see that one in the cards for us.

Lambda feedback of some sort is on the list.

Once properly programmed, starting is usually within 3 blades so we probably won't add complexity there.

Depending on the new display layout, we could incorporate some indications of warmup enrichment although not sure of the general usefulness of this. The ECU just takes care of this behind the scenes.

Appreciate the input. If we get a number of similar suggestions, we'll take a look at those ideas.
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Ross Farnham, Calgary, Alberta
Turbo Subaru EJ22, SDS EFI, Marcotte M-300, IVO, RV6A C-GVZX flying from CYBW since 2003- 424.4 hrs. on the Hobbs,
RV10 95% built- Sold 2016
http://www.sdsefi.com/aircraft.html
http://sdsefi.com/cpi.htm


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  #15  
Old 03-06-2018, 06:54 AM
svyolo svyolo is offline
 
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Location: bellingham, wa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick14 View Post
Detonation sensors for alternative/multiple fuel capability,
Provisions for a propeller regulating servo,
Lamda Sensor for exact mixture control in cruise,
Authority over starter relay for automatic startup sequence (priming, mixture according oil temperature and OAT)
Warmup and cool down monitoring and display

Would be nice

Best regards
Patrick
Does not exist, on planet earth. Automotive, aviation, anywhere. Way beyond FADEC. It does not exist.
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  #16  
Old 03-06-2018, 07:02 AM
svyolo svyolo is offline
 
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The more automatic SDS becomes, the more it becomes like an ECu from a car, which works great on a car. Cutting power back to idle because of a suspected minor fault doesn't work very well on an airplane. SDS doesn't use auto ECU's because the failure modes that work on a car, don't work on an airplane. "Limp home" mode on a car means "crash" for an airplane.

"Closed Loop" for an O2 sensor works great on a car going 70 mph down a highway. At that point, the car engine is putting out 20-50 hp, which is 10-20% of available engine power. When you go much above that level, the engine goes open loop. An airplane engine runs 50-75% Power most of the time. A car engine is running Open Loop at that setting, as is an airplane.

Different environment.
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  #17  
Old 03-06-2018, 07:38 AM
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rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
 
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The biggest issue with closed loop operation in aircraft is the leaded fuel interacting with the O2 sensor. We can target a different AFR than automotive does but we need to be able to detect sensor failures and jump back into open loop for safety if that happens.
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Ross Farnham, Calgary, Alberta
Turbo Subaru EJ22, SDS EFI, Marcotte M-300, IVO, RV6A C-GVZX flying from CYBW since 2003- 424.4 hrs. on the Hobbs,
RV10 95% built- Sold 2016
http://www.sdsefi.com/aircraft.html
http://sdsefi.com/cpi.htm


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  #18  
Old 03-06-2018, 03:01 PM
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majuro15 majuro15 is offline
 
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Ross, I'm sure you're cooking up some great stuff for the ECU update. I'd also like to see an updated install and operation manual. I'm working on my schematic and there are quite a few blanks to fill in and flipping between three different documents. I know that's not as easy as it appears to write the manual, but I think it'd help.
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  #19  
Old 03-06-2018, 03:52 PM
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rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majuro15 View Post
Ross, I'm sure you're cooking up some great stuff for the ECU update. I'd also like to see an updated install and operation manual. I'm working on my schematic and there are quite a few blanks to fill in and flipping between three different documents. I know that's not as easy as it appears to write the manual, but I think it'd help.
I agree. I believe the documentation can be improved a lot. My partner prefers to have photos for wire hookups whereas I think lots of folks prefer a schematic on the same page so we'll have both as we update more.

Not to make excuses, but we've been so busy for so long now, the manual improvements have suffered a bit while we build, design and ship stuff.

We try to make as much wiring for you as possible so you're mainly just connecting a few power and ground wires plus crimping connectors onto the FWF cables. Certainly when you take a dual system out of the box, I'm sure a lot of people think- wow, lot of wires here.

You're right, writing documentation for the user who's never seen the hardware before is one of the hardest aspects of the whole project.
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Ross Farnham, Calgary, Alberta
Turbo Subaru EJ22, SDS EFI, Marcotte M-300, IVO, RV6A C-GVZX flying from CYBW since 2003- 424.4 hrs. on the Hobbs,
RV10 95% built- Sold 2016
http://www.sdsefi.com/aircraft.html
http://sdsefi.com/cpi.htm


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  #20  
Old 03-15-2018, 12:32 PM
Patrick14 Patrick14 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svyolo View Post
The more automatic SDS becomes, the more it becomes like an ECu from a car, which works great on a car. Cutting power back to idle because of a suspected minor fault doesn't work very well on an airplane. SDS doesn't use auto ECU's because the failure modes that work on a car, don't work on an airplane. "Limp home" mode on a car means "crash" for an airplane.
The FADECs/ECUs i worked with over the last 20 years (CFM, RR, PW, IAE) were working pretty stable and helped a lot against mishandling of the engine. The backup modes for a minor failure (sensor fault or similar) do not neccessarily cause a thrust reduction to idle. If a modern intelligent ignition and fuel management helps to keep the pre WWII technology lycoming and continentals within their healthy envelopes, it may also save us from mechanical failures later on.
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