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Drag Racing on the Runway at an Airport Community

swaltner

Active Member
I live at an airpark that is privately owned, but Airport Use is "Open to the public".

At big events (the yearly fly-in among other days), it gets kind of crazy. At the town party today, people were doing drag racing down the runway most of the day. The runway was never NOTAM'd closed. Tonight, after dark, people were doing donuts and drag racing on the runway without their headlights on.

The police were called, but the airport owner was upset that they responded to a call from someone else. The airport owner's position is, "I own the runway."

What are the rules in this situation? Does the runway need to be NOTAM'd closed in this situation? Who has jurisdiction?
 
What are the "rules" concerning deer on a runway? Would that be more or less of a hazard than cars running up and down? Was there anyone on the ground with a radio to coordinate the mixed traffic?

It's a private Airpark... Public or not, I think "land at your own risk" applies.
 
Our Airpark is marked Private and is not public-use.

The FAA cannot issue a NOTAM for it, which becomes a problem when the runway is completely closed for work.

Seems like a defect in the FAA NOTAM system to me...:)
 
What are the "rules" concerning deer on a runway? Would that be more or less of a hazard than cars running up and down? Was there anyone on the ground with a radio to coordinate the mixed traffic?

It's a private Airpark... Public or not, I think "land at your own risk" applies.

I think as aviators we all accept that landings (and flight, for that matter) are all at "our own risk". However just because hazards exist which we can't control (wildlife) doesn't mean to me that we should give up on attempting to control the ones we can.

I think Gil hit the nail on the head regarding a void in the system. It may go further than just the NOTAM system, though. If someone wants to hold an airport out as "open to the public" in federal publications to airmen, shouldn't that airport then be subject to a similar expectation of aviation safety as other airports which are open to the public?

Is the owner free to publish an approach which may or may not meet minimum FAR requirements for obstacle clearance? If he chooses to put glideslope lighting on the field, is he free to place whatever non-standard system he likes on the ground? If there's a rotating beacon, does he have to have white/green lighting or can he choose other colors?

I'm not suggesting any of these things exist. But where is the line?
 
Public use or not, it's still private property and the owner can do with it as he chooses. Plenty of airparks have RC models operating off the runway, cars, golf carts and scooters running all over...

I think we as aviators need to get in our heads is that if we're landing at a private airport we are guests, and NOT necessarily the most important thing going on at the moment. I live at a private airport and I try to keep this in mind when I visit another.
 
Well, sure, but....

Public use or not, it's still private property and the owner can do with it as he chooses. Plenty of airparks have RC models operating off the runway, cars, golf carts and scooters running all over...

I think we as aviators need to get in our heads is that if we're landing at a private airport we are guests, and NOT necessarily the most important thing going on at the moment. I live at a private airport and I try to keep this in mind when I visit another.

A Camaro with no headlights tearing down the runway +100 mph, AFTER dark, with a couple hundred people around all over the airport?

I love the airport, and the freedom and liberties it brings. But some acts are VERY contrary to safety. Legalities aside, THOSE acts are what needs fixin'.
 
A Camaro with no headlights tearing down the runway +100 mph, AFTER dark, with a couple hundred people around all over the airport?

I love the airport, and the freedom and liberties it brings. But some acts are VERY contrary to safety. Legalities aside, THOSE acts are what needs fixin'.
Really??? OMG, you'd positively fall off that chair if you knew what happened before and after dark at the old private strip where I used to hangar. And to the best of my recollection, no accidents in 30+ years of existence (from mixed use activities).
 
What is the VAF collective going to do about it?

Well, the OP asked if anyone knew what, if any, regulations applied. And who, if anyone, had authority. If the answer is none, great. But for all the constructive banter, those questions remain unanswered.

I wish I knew.
 
Your insurance company, and the owners liability, has more to do with it that the FAA regulations.

Our airpark got sued after a fatal accident - last words on the radio "watch this" - because our runway was too narrow (44 ft) and did not meet the FAA minimum standards (60 ft).

The insurance company paid out a large amount rather than fight it in court.

If it's a common runway, all of the airpark owners may be held liable.
 
MY last words on the matter....

After reading some of these replies, it is obvious that private airparks participate in a 'variety of activities'. That's fine by me, provided that a little common sense and regard for safety is used. It is equally obvious, that a lot of folks don't mind these activities.

In this case, the 'owner's' responses included "I own the runway" and "The taxiway isn't a walking path". Ok....cool. With that logic, the runway isn't a drag strip either. The very word "Airpark" infers airplanes to me....

I bet if a drag car ran off the side of the runway and harvested a dozen runway lights, Mr. "I own the runway" would turn into "We own the runway" to include everyone who has a financial stake in the runway, (I don't) to pay for repairs.

That said, I love it here. I just don't want anyone getting hurt, and to operate safely.

Gregg Out.
 
There is a precedent...of sorts

There is a history of drag racing on a municipal airport. When I first moved to this area, the airport here would be closed to air traffic every Sunday so a local group could hold drag races on the runway. The races were a commercial event, open to the public, and they continued for an entire decade. The decade was the 1950s, the local group was the Orange County Timing Association, and the airport was at that time called Santa Ana Airport, which is known today as John Wayne Airport (KSNA).
 
probably not a bad idea to "clear" the runway with a low pass to ensure there is no activity. especially if it is dark and you cannot see the runway. *be safe. we are learning all the time. good post. ;)
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There is a history of drag racing on a municipal airport. When I first moved to this area, the airport here would be closed to air traffic every Sunday so a local group could hold drag races on the runway. The races were a commercial event, open to the public, and they continued for an entire decade. The decade was the 1950s, the local group was the Orange County Timing Association, and the airport was at that time called Santa Ana Airport, which is known today as John Wayne Airport (KSNA).

"Closed to air traffic" is the catch. The OP stated that this wasn't the case, and the airport wasn't closed by NOTAM. This is a field that sees an average of 29 operations per day according to Airnav - probably quite a bit busier than your typical "private" field. Most of these operations are on the weekends, and with midwest weather being what it is, the good weekends get extremely busy. Lots of traffic, both local and transient.

There is another airport in the area with regular radio-controlled aircraft activities on the field, and this activity is clearly spelled out in NOTAMs. Everyone is made aware, and the two seem to coexist nicely.

I don't disagree with a private owner closing his runway, or with activities other than general aviation occurring on a field, as long as everyone has an opportunity to be made aware. Due to regular high transient traffic volumes it would be wise (required?) to NOTAM the runway closed when drag racing, and to mark an "X" at each end of the closed runway.

It's becoming clear that the regulations that many of us have come to expect at airports must not apply to privately-owned runways of any sort or size. This is good to know, and will most definitely change how I view private fields, my choices to fly to one, and my procedures when doing so.
 
I think we as aviators need to get in our heads is that if we're landing at a private airport we are guests, and NOT necessarily the most important thing going on at the moment. I live at a private airport and I try to keep this in mind when I visit another.

This is a polite way of putting it. All I'd add is on several occasions here in Virginia (and I doubt that we're unique) I've seen public airports allowing activities involving RC aircraft (including drone testing) and automotive demonstrations (for lack of a better description) without any NOTAM. It wasn't just one airport and it wasn't just one time.

My take away is similar to Michael's except I'd expand it to all airports. When I'm setting up for a landing, I'm watching for traffic in the air (and not just full size planes) and I'm watching for all sorts of traffic on the runway and around the runway.
 
Last week the city owned public airport I base my -10 at had orange coned off the taxi ways and ramp tie down area and fueling pad for EVO (Emergency Vehicle Operations) training. Local law enforcement agencies participate and set up a training course. I did this yearly as a Police Officer prior to retiring and it was a lot of fun and very good stuff to practice. I was surprised though that no NOTAM was issued. I worked on my plane for a couple hours but wanted to do some flying so I finally called the airport manager and asked if the airport was closed. "NO" was the reply. "We just listen for incoming traffic and move the cones when needed". So they moved the cones for me to taxi to the runway and again when I returned a couple hours later and they lost my fuel sale to a neighboring airport. There should have been a NOTAM issued IMHO for this activity.
 
It is his property

The property owner should have complete and total say in what does or does not happen on his property. He paid for it and is responsible for it and therefore his word is final. Thank him for allowing you to use it or go somewhere else. As you can tell, I don't like HOAs either.
 
The property owner should have complete and total say in what does or does not happen on his property. He paid for it and is responsible for it and therefore his word is final. Thank him for allowing you to use it or go somewhere else. As you can tell, I don't like HOAs either.

Generally, yes. However in most states it is illegal to drink and drive, or for that matter to operate a vehicle in an unsafe manner, even on private property. There are plenty of activities which are regulated on private property.
 
Generally, yes. However in most states it is illegal to drink and drive, or for that matter to operate a vehicle in an unsafe manner, even on private property. There are plenty of activities which are regulated on private property.

Too many! The government is way too big. Plus I wasn't talking about illegal activities.
 
Generally, yes. However in most states it is illegal to drink and drive, or for that matter to operate a vehicle in an unsafe manner, even on private property. There are plenty of activities which are regulated on private property.

If I had a nickel for every golf cart I've seen (and been in) with a half lit driver holding on to the steering wheel with one hand and an open drink in the other...

...Well, I'd have enough money to retire and hang around the airport more...

(and buy a golf cart with a built in cooler!)
 
Clear the runway

Whatever your belief is on this subject, I just hope that you fly over the field before landing at uncontrolled airports. Especially at night you should make a low pass and clear wild life or wild people :D
 
There are good reasons to make a low pass at times, some of them mentioned here. Of course, to best accomplish the goals of the pass (looking for obstacles, letting people know you're planning on landing there), a low speed pass is more effective than a buzz job.... just not as fun, right?
 
Op, were any monies taken from the FAA for construction, paving, maintenance, or building hangars? If so, the contractual requirements they agreed to when they took the money (private airport, public use) could need to be returned if they are knowingly using the airport for purposes other than aviation. The money comes with many strings attached.

Also, there are zoning laws that might help you get the owner to curtail drag racing such as car notice, crowds, commercial ventures (if the owner is charging for racing) etc. The local zoning board should be made aware of the drag racing on a runway.
 
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Low Pass

At our airport we have so much wild life from Deer to Turkey that are on the runway especially at night. Making a low pass is really important to chase them away and also seeing if there is anything on the runway or not.
 
Last week the city owned public airport I base my -10 at had orange coned off the taxi ways and ramp tie down area and fueling pad for EVO (Emergency Vehicle Operations) training. Local law enforcement agencies participate and set up a training course. I did this yearly as a Police Officer prior to retiring and it was a lot of fun and very good stuff to practice. I was surprised though that no NOTAM was issued. I worked on my plane for a couple hours but wanted to do some flying so I finally called the airport manager and asked if the airport was closed. "NO" was the reply. "We just listen for incoming traffic and move the cones when needed". So they moved the cones for me to taxi to the runway and again when I returned a couple hours later and they lost my fuel sale to a neighboring airport. There should have been a NOTAM issued IMHO for this activity.

How is the fuel sale and the NOTAM related?

Tim
 
My father built the airport and airpark where Mike S lives. O61, Cameron Park Airport and Airpark was built in the early 60's.

They do a pretty good job of working with the public for air -car shows and planes getting along with cars. You can look for all kinds of technical and legal ways to try and keep things like the drag racing or car shows off the airport - but all you do is **** off the public. I don't really think that is what we want as pilots. At Cameron Park, the runway is closed to cars by fences so it isn't an issue and the streets are 100' wide so there is plenty of room to do about whatever you want.

I think a day or two now and then that brings people to the airport can be a real good thing. Just make sure the proper notifications are done and things are cleaned up after. Showing off your plane to non aviation people can be a great chance to get more of us!
 
My father built the airport and airpark where Mike S lives. O61, Cameron Park Airport and Airpark was built in the early 60's.

They do a pretty good job of working with the public for air -car shows and planes getting along with cars. You can look for all kinds of technical and legal ways to try and keep things like the drag racing or car shows off the airport - but all you do is **** off the public. I don't really think that is what we want as pilots. At Cameron Park, the runway is closed to cars by fences so it isn't an issue and the streets are 100' wide so there is plenty of room to do about whatever you want.

I think a day or two now and then that brings people to the airport can be a real good thing. Just make sure the proper notifications are done and things are cleaned up after. Showing off your plane to non aviation people can be a great chance to get more of us!

Agreed 100%.....

Multi use of an airport will give it ALOT better chance of survival and expose it's benefits to the general population...
 
Generally, yes. However in most states it is illegal to drink and drive, or for that matter to operate a vehicle in an unsafe manner, even on private property. There are plenty of activities which are regulated on private property.

I am not sure of that......

In about 2 dozen states there are NASCAR racing tracks and in all the other states there are tracks that have racing activities.....
I am REAL sure those cars are operated is a UNSAFE MANNER....:cool:
 
I am not sure of that......

In about 2 dozen states there are NASCAR racing tracks and in all the other states there are tracks that have racing activities.....
I am REAL sure those cars are operated is a UNSAFE MANNER....:cool:

Was thinking along the same lines....

I'm not sure what the scope of activity was actually going on in the first post (i.e. was it a sanctioned "drag race" with timing equipment, or was it just a couple guys going fast?). At any rate, I'll bet that statistically, the "drag racing" - done on the wide open space of an airport- was safer than jumping into a Homebuilt airplane and flying formation or acro for an hour.

It always strikes me as funny when we as operators of Homebuilt aircraft point to other activities as "unsafe".
 
I am not sure of that......

In about 2 dozen states there are NASCAR racing tracks and in all the other states there are tracks that have racing activities.....
I am REAL sure those cars are operated is a UNSAFE MANNER....:cool:

Actually it's spelled out in black and white, in almost exactly those words, in the state statutes. This was not a sanctioned event at a closed track, with standards and safety devices in place to protect the spectating public like NASCAR tracks have.

It always strikes me as funny when we as operators of Homebuilt aircraft point to other activities as "unsafe".

Please post the data that shows flying a homebuilt aircraft is more dangerous to the public than amateur drivers racing their cars down a piece of pavement at night, in front of a crowd of people, without headlights, after possibly consuming alcoholic beverages. Insurance actuaries certainly don't agree with your statement. We can all get liability insurance to fly our homebuilt aircraft. Tell your auto insurer that you're going to drink and drag race your car at night without headlights on a runway, and see if they return with a liability quote.
 
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Actually it's spelled out in black and white, in almost exactly those words, in the state statutes. This was not a sanctioned event at a closed track, with standards and safety devices in place to protect the spectating public like NASCAR tracks have.



Please post the data that shows flying a homebuilt aircraft is more dangerous to the public than amateur drivers racing their cars down a piece of pavement at night, in front of a crowd of people, without headlights, after possibly consuming alcoholic beverages. Insurance actuaries certainly don't agree with your statement. We can all get insurance to fly our homebuilt aircraft. Tell your auto insurer that you're going to drink and drag race your car at night without headlights on a runway, and see if they return with a quote.



Easy fix..... Do what I did and built my own PRIVATE airport. 2WY3...That way you can run it how you like... Just like I do...

Ps.. I am not saying the driving drunk and racing down a runway with crowds lining it are even remotely safe.... but... The fact "someone" called the cops before talking the landowner of that airport, is not the right thing to do..
 
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How is the fuel sale and the NOTAM related?

Tim

If you were on a cross country and had planned on using the airport for a fuel stop, not being able to get fuel could be an issue. If a NOTAM had been issued for the airport you could plan accordingly when you do your pre-flight briefing. They were only opening up the taxi way, not the ramp.
 
...Please post the data that shows flying a homebuilt aircraft is more dangerous to the public than amateur drivers racing their cars down a piece of pavement at night, in front of a crowd of people, without headlights, after possibly consuming alcoholic beverages...

To even begin to calculate this, We'd need to know how many cars were involved, how many guests were watching, what distance they were from the cars, how fast they were going and the big one: were they actually intoxicated?... "Drag racing on the runway" can be safe and benign or reckless and dangerous. In other words, the devil is in the details.


Also, just wondering how much carnage this activity caused? Any property damage or injuries? The police were called out. Were there any citations?
 
Another take on this is public airports.. Can you drive on the runway according to the FAR's?

My county owns the public airport BUT has no ordinance against driving vehicles on it. Consequently, we have cars, trucks, tractors, 4 wheelers, etc. driving on our runway randomly.

I've called the FAA and was told if it's not against the LAW, it's not against FAR's.

Our county government refuses to pass a law, hence, nothing for law enforcement folks to cite, hence, it's legal to drive on our runway.

Not Smart, NOT safe, NOT good for liability, but LEGAL..

If you fly into here, runway clearing passes are SMART.
 
If you were on a cross country and had planned on using the airport for a fuel stop, not being able to get fuel could be an issue. If a NOTAM had been issued for the airport you could plan accordingly when you do your pre-flight briefing. They were only opening up the taxi way, not the ramp.

I am still not following. Unless you requested getting fuel and they declined.

I have landed at airports where the ramp area was closed via cones with no NOTAM. When I requested fuel, because that was why I landed, they opened the cones and actually towed me to the fuel tanks. Helped me top off and towed me back.
Maybe added five minutes to the stop and I got watch some go kart racing while they fueled my plane. It is amazing how fast those little machines can go!

Tim
 
If you were on a cross country and had planned on using the airport for a fuel stop, not being able to get fuel could be an issue. If a NOTAM had been issued for the airport you could plan accordingly when you do your pre-flight briefing. They were only opening up the taxi way, not the ramp.

What would you do if you were on a cross country, and had planned to get fuel at an airport, and found the runway had just been blocked with a disabled aircraft?

The lack of a NOTAM is no guarantee that the airport will be open when you get there. You should always have a Plan B - i.e. enough fuel reserve to get to another suitable airport.

I agree that a NOTAM should be issued if a runway at a public airport is not usable, but we shouldn't expect that the NOTAM system is a completely reliable indication of airport status.
 
This thread is like a car wreck about to happen. I know the result but I just can't stop looking. FWIW if we think the FAA regulations, NOTAMS, or more strict enforcement of same is going to make us safer I would suggest we are placing our faith in the wrong place.

Should a private airport owner allow anything goes at his airport? Well I have an opinion but the only one that matters in that hypothetical case is the owner as he's the one who can do something about it.

Hoping Uncle Sugar steps in and brings about our desired result will likely result in more non-desired results as well, IMHO.

But I've been hoping for the moderator police to shut this one down so I stop watching it.
 
I am still not following. Unless you requested getting fuel and they declined.

I have landed at airports where the ramp area was closed via cones with no NOTAM. When I requested fuel, because that was why I landed, they opened the cones and actually towed me to the fuel tanks. Helped me top off and towed me back.
Maybe added five minutes to the stop and I got watch some go kart racing while they fueled my plane. It is amazing how fast those little machines can go!

Tim

Maybe I was not clear. They would only open the taxiway from the hangers to the runway for planes coming and going. Once at the runway you had to back taxi to the other end for take-off. The parallel taxiway was closed. The fueling area is in front of the terminal building and that area was closed off also for parking and fuel. Like I said,,,I had to go to another airport for fuel so that was a missed sale for them.
 
What would you do if you were on a cross country, and had planned to get fuel at an airport, and found the runway had just been blocked with a disabled aircraft?

The lack of a NOTAM is no guarantee that the airport will be open when you get there. You should always have a Plan B - i.e. enough fuel reserve to get to another suitable airport.

I agree that a NOTAM should be issued if a runway at a public airport is not usable, but we shouldn't expect that the NOTAM system is a completely reliable indication of airport status.

This was a pre-planned training event and not an emergency so the airport manager had ample time to issue the NOTAM. Its just common sense and courtesy.
 
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