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  #11  
Old 04-01-2020, 04:06 PM
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Walt Walt is offline
 
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Or... just spend a few extra dollars, get a B&C, and fugget about it .
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  #12  
Old 04-02-2020, 04:47 AM
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FORANE FORANE is offline
 
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Location: East TN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Buchanan View Post
The alternator doesn't care electrically which way it rotates and it is doubtful the presence of the correct fan or even a fan at all is a big deal in our application. The 35a alternator Vans sold for years was delivered without a fan and overheating wasn't a problem. Many of us back in the day installed a blast tube aimed at the rear of the alternator.
Agree with Sam's comment here. I have no fan, with a blast tube to a molded composite shroud around the rear of the alternator.
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  #13  
Old 04-02-2020, 05:49 AM
WingsOnWheels WingsOnWheels is offline
 
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Location: Plano, TX
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I assume you want OV protection, that is the reason for external regulation. What I did was to add a contactor (80amp) in the alternator B-Lead. The contactor is normally open and powered directly from what would be the field breaker. I have a crowbar OV module connected to that breaker. In the event of a OV condition, the crowbar grounds, breaker trips, b-lead is disconnected from the buss.

There were two reasons I went with an auto alternator:
1) cost
2) field service availability

If you have to modify the alternator to make it work, then you loose one of the main advantages, unless you bring a soldering iron with you.

With the contactor solution, you get to keep both advantages and have OV protection. I can swap alternators with no modifications.
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Last edited by WingsOnWheels : 04-02-2020 at 12:58 PM.
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  #14  
Old 04-02-2020, 06:54 AM
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Hmmm. This is the age of 3D printing. Sure seems like some enterprising person could design and print brush holders to replace the VR/brush module in ND alternators.....
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  #15  
Old 04-02-2020, 07:02 AM
pecanflyboy pecanflyboy is offline
 
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Location: Granbury, Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrskygod View Post
pecanflyboy - I wrote an article for Kitplanes magazine early last year that explains how to modify the alternator for external regulation. You might check the article out and see if you wish to take on the task of modifying the alternator.
I've read both the Kitplanes articles. Thank you!:

https://www.kitplanes.com/alternator...major-surgery/

Once I decided to modify my internally regulated 14824, I used the method described in the article below:

https://www.kitplanes.com/rewiring-a...so-alternator/

This technique turns all of the alternator terminals into the Field input from the external voltage regulator, and removes the internal voltage regulator. The pictures could be a lot better.

The goal is to route the Field to the aft/top brush, and ground the fwd/bottom brush. You remove the guts of the internal VR, and jumper the plug terminal pins to the aft/top brush pin.

The fwd/bottom brush is removed, and an insulated hole drilled in the back of the brush holder. You then install a new brush with a long lead. The lead from this brush is routed through the hole and to a grounding point on the alternator (or to the VR if you like). The grounding point on the alternator is located under one of the long screws that secures the rear cover.........do not take it to the B post!

The only part you need to purchase is a new brush with a long lead. I found these at O'Reilly Auto Parts as Part# 32-0123. I called in the morning and they had the parts in the store by early afternoon.

The article doesn't explain the details of what you are doing. I suggest that you use a voltmeter to understand the process and check continuity along the way.

If you need to change the alternator in the field, you go get your lifetime free replacement at the auto parts store, and then use a screw driver to swap the VR board and the brush holder. 5 minute job with no soldering.

Last edited by pecanflyboy : 04-02-2020 at 07:19 AM. Reason: Added field replacement comment
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  #16  
Old 04-02-2020, 07:13 AM
pecanflyboy pecanflyboy is offline
 
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Location: Granbury, Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WingsOnWheels View Post
I assume you want OV protection, that is the reason for external regulation. What I did was to add a contactor (80amp) in the alternator B-Lead. The contactor is normally open and powered director from what would be the field breaker. I have a crowbar OV module connected to that breaker. In the event of a OV condition, the crowbar grounds, breaker trip, b-lead is disconnected from the buss.

There were two reasons I went with an auto alternator:
1) cost
2) field service availability

If you have to modify the alternator to make it work, then you loose one of the main advantages, unless you bring a soldering iron with you.

With the contactor solution, you get to keep both advantages and have OV protection. I can swap alternators with no modifications.
Once you make the modifications, you only need a screw driver to transfer the modification to a replacement alternator. You swap the VR and the brush holder, and you are done.
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  #17  
Old 04-02-2020, 01:01 PM
WingsOnWheels WingsOnWheels is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pecanflyboy View Post
Once you make the modifications, you only need a screw driver to transfer the modification to a replacement alternator. You swap the VR and the brush holder, and you are done.
An extra trip to the auto store, but sounds pretty simple otherwise.
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Complete 5/10/19
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I donate every year on my B-Day (in Dec), but donated early in Sep'19.
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  #18  
Old 04-08-2020, 10:36 PM
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avrojockey avrojockey is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Appleton, WI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pecanflyboy View Post
I've read both the Kitplanes articles. Thank you!:

https://www.kitplanes.com/alternator...major-surgery/

Once I decided to modify my internally regulated 14824, I used the method described in the article below:

https://www.kitplanes.com/rewiring-a...so-alternator/

This technique turns all of the alternator terminals into the Field input from the external voltage regulator, and removes the internal voltage regulator. The pictures could be a lot better.

The goal is to route the Field to the aft/top brush, and ground the fwd/bottom brush. You remove the guts of the internal VR, and jumper the plug terminal pins to the aft/top brush pin.

The fwd/bottom brush is removed, and an insulated hole drilled in the back of the brush holder. You then install a new brush with a long lead. The lead from this brush is routed through the hole and to a grounding point on the alternator (or to the VR if you like). The grounding point on the alternator is located under one of the long screws that secures the rear cover.........do not take it to the B post!

The only part you need to purchase is a new brush with a long lead. I found these at O'Reilly Auto Parts as Part# 32-0123. I called in the morning and they had the parts in the store by early afternoon.

The article doesn't explain the details of what you are doing. I suggest that you use a voltmeter to understand the process and check continuity along the way.

If you need to change the alternator in the field, you go get your lifetime free replacement at the auto parts store, and then use a screw driver to swap the VR board and the brush holder. 5 minute job with no soldering.
So I just finished up the mod to my ND internal regulated supplied by Vans, but I took a slightly different approach...I only accomplished part of the mod (turning the IG terminal into the sole F (field) supply) and left the alternator internally regulated. Here's why I went this route...
  1. My main concern was OV protection and the ability to positively turn off the field
  2. I didn't want modifications outside of the alternator...this would allow me to locally source an alternator which would be plug-in-play
  3. With proper blast cooling I can mitigate failures of the regulator and rectifier.
  4. The ability to do this with materials I already had...I only needed to purchase a 50 cent diode but I also replaced the brushes for $10 while I had things apart.
  5. I didn't see the need to have an external regulator, nor have a contactor for the B+ output.

I followed the instructions from AeroConnection here:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles...rnator_Mod.pdf

The directions are pretty good and go into explaining why one should make this mod. I only deviated from the directions in that I used my already installed alternator and B&C OV module.

Just reinstalled this afternoon to test, and putting out precisely 14.2V under various loads with positive control from the ALT switch and field breaker. I now feel a little better about dispatching in hard IMC in my all-electric airplane.
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Last edited by avrojockey : 04-09-2020 at 09:58 AM.
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  #19  
Old 04-09-2020, 08:35 AM
pecanflyboy pecanflyboy is offline
 
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Nice article. Better photos, for sure! There are a dozen ways to go about installing and auto alternator, and it's good to share the variations. Each fits our own particular needs. For me, I already have a B&C external VR, so I went this route:

1. I gutted the ND voltage regulator, made the 3 pin plug all field input, connected the bottom/forward brush to ground. Now the alternator is completely controlled by my external VR. I can go to the auto store, swap alternators, and swap the gutted VR and brush holder in 5 minutes, and I'm done.

2. MOUNTING! The distance between the mounting ears on the bracket should be around 2 5/8" with a smaller diameter bolt than the Lycoming alternators. You can either fabricate your own, or find one to buy. The Plane Power boss bracket did not work as the ears were too wide (I could have used washers), bolt diameter too large, and the position wrong. However, the Vans "Bracket kit for generic Nippon Denso Alt" was spot on...go figure. ES ALTERNATOR BKT KIT It's a machined aluminum bracket and tension arm that is very light, fits the alternator perfectly, and positions it correctly. It uses four mounting bolts on the Lycoming boss mounts. Plug and play, and I'm very happy with it.

Jimmy

Last edited by pecanflyboy : 04-09-2020 at 08:37 AM.
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  #20  
Old 04-09-2020, 10:02 AM
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avrojockey avrojockey is offline
 
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Location: Appleton, WI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pecanflyboy View Post
Nice article. Better photos, for sure! There are a dozen ways to go about installing and auto alternator, and it's good to share the variations. Each fits our own particular needs. For me, I already have a B&C external VR, so I went this route:
I think this is a more reliable setup for sure. If I end up changing the alternator in the dead of winter, on the ramp in B-F-E, it will probably motivate me to switch to an external regulator.
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