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Kit shipping damage - dodged a bullet!

Auburntsts

Auburntsts

Well Known Member
Got my wings via ABF yesterday. This crate had the end bashed in. :(

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The damage was minor and limited to bent corners on 4 skins. Luckily, there were no kinks or tears, just bends which I can easily fix. :rolleyes: The pics of this one skin don't show the bends that well, but they are actually sort of S-shaped in cross section as the aluminum compressed when the crate end was caved in.

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Heck no. I can straighten all the corners on the 4 skins back to being more or less flat. Like I said they are just bent, and not kinked (not even scratched) which would have made them a no-go for me. I consider myself to be very lucky as I think getting new skins would have been a royal pain.
 
I would send the pics to the freight company anyway, and let them know they screwed it up.
 
ABF doesn't seem to understand what it is that they're carrying. My RV-12 tail kit was crammed into the truck on its side and had a similar gash in it that bent a couple of the tail skins. The damaged part of the skin bent back into shape ok, albeit with a small crease that will be invisible under the fiberglass tail cone.

I'm hoping that ABF isn't an acronym for Another Busted Fuselage. I won't know until February.
 
I'll say it again...I've had good luck with ABF. Maybe I'm the exception. They've always been very courteous and called me ahead of time to let me know when my kits would be there. Had good experiences with pick-up at their loading docks also. Of course, it would only take one bad experience for me to write them off...as I do with everyone else.

I recently had an experience with Partain and was very impressed with the time and care the driver took with packing and securing everything down. If the price is similar, or not an issue, Partain is DEFINITELY the way to go if possible. Just my opinion.
 
ABF = Arkansas Best Freight

Brantel said:
Another data point that ABF STINKS!

Looks all too familiar!!!
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Years ago when I had my race car trailer manufacturing business, coil-coated aluminum sheet other than white had to be shipped from a supplier in Westchester, PA. Every shipment that went on ABF was damaged. I finally began stating on purchase orders "any freight company EXCEPT ABF." Sure enough some guy failed to read the admonishment, shipped ABF and yet another shipment damaged. I usually got jerked around for 3 - 4 months before the claim got paid. Not much fun for a small mom & pop business.

Larry
 
I'm convinced they're all the same :).

ABF has been fine for all of my kits, but I'm also picking most of them up at the freight yard instead of using the home delivery (saves a small amount of $).

I think that *every* large FedEx, UPS or any other freight that I've ever had delivered, it's like they purposefully do whatever the labels say not to...if it says "This End Up", guess which end is NOT up? If it says "Fragile"...ahahahahaha!!!! Yeah, right.

I think it was the wing kit that came to the house with the box standing *on end* in the truck. We made the guy wait while we opened it to check for bent skins...none, but only by virtues of good packing by Van's.
 
It apears that ABF uses forklifts to push the crates around, and when the crate stops, the forks don't. I've seen multiple crates damaged in the same way. It would be nice if Van's beefed up the ends with plywood or something similar (like NOT using ABF!)
Maybe if they painted "Sony Flat panel TV" on the crate it would not get mis-treated, just stolen...
 
I've had good luck with ABF, except for the -10 tail kit. Even then, they didn't give me any problems. I refused the delivery and they took it back. Van's filed the claim and ABF called me to resolve the billing for the original shipment (referred to Van's, charges dropped, no quibbling from the person who called). The nice thing about them is they deliver to the airport if I ask, and it costs less than the home delivery. By the way, it may not stricly be ABF or Roadway doing the shipping; the bill of lading had another shipping company on it even though it was an ABF truck doing the local delivery.
 
QUOTE: I've seen multiple crates damaged in the same way. It would be nice if Van's beefed up the ends with plywood or something similar (like NOT using ABF!)

Looks like vans does a pretty good job of crating. What is that a 2x10 around the edge? Unless of course you want to pay more for shipping. Give me a call, we'll build you whatever crate you want. As long as you got the $$$:D:D

Being around forklifts a lot in my business, there is not a lot you can do to stop a careless forklift driver in a hurry unless you want to build a steel cage.
 
Pallet said:
Looks like vans does a pretty good job of crating. What is that a 2x10 around the edge? Unless of course you want to pay more for shipping. Give me a call, we'll build you whatever crate you want. As long as you got the $$$:D:D
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It's not a 2x10, it's a 1x?. Well, actually 3/4x? At least on the ones I saw.
 
I'm puzzled

as to why more VAF builders don't use PARTAIN. The driver carries only AIRPLANES or KITS in his trailer - no furniture, machinery, food, whatever - only AIRPLANES or KITS - nothing else.

Your kit is picked up at Van's by the same driver who will deliver it to you - wherever that location is. No off-loading at a terminal - your stuff goes one way to your door and no extra charges. The driver knows how to unload your stuff and will help you get it up your driveway, hanger, business, etc. PARTAIN will give you the cell phone number of YOUR driver.

Haven't ever seen a post complaining how they were treated badly by PARTAIN. I'll use PARTAIN for everything larger than a bread box. Maybe they don't come to your state? For me, it's a no brainer - best service, no worries, and you are supporting a VAF advertiser.

I am just a satisfied PARTAIN customer - never met the man. :cool:
 
fl-mike said:
It's not a 2x10, it's a 1x?. Well, actually 3/4x? At least on the ones I saw.
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Thanks mike.
Please note, that I have never seen a Vans crate in person. But, I can ponder anyway, I guess.

Are these crates to large for one person to move easily?

I'm wondering, does vans put some type of runners underneath the crate so they can be moved with a forklift instead of pushing them around. (Sounds like they are anyway) Probably may have to use thicker plywood or reinforcement on the bottom of the crate for short forks. (the flexing of the bottom may be a problem for parts damage.
You know the lift driver is using the forklift to push it from one truck to another until it catches on a dock plate, trailer, etc.

It is going to cost more, but You can build a nicer work bench after you unpack the crate.:D

Want my rv-10 to arive safely..... as soon as I place the order..
 
Pallet said:
Are these crates to large for one person to move easily?

I'm wondering, does vans put some type of runners underneath the crate so they can be moved with a forklift instead of pushing them around.
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Here's the size of the crates in this shipment (RV-10 Wings):
104" X 32" X 10", 239 lbs (this was the damaged crate and it had runners, it was also loaded on the truck on it's side although this had nothing to do with the damage)
169" X 10" X 11", 253 lbs

One person can move them around on the ground without too much problem, but I'm really glad the driver was there to help me get them out of the truck. For the RV-10 fuse (97" X 49" X 42", 545lbs) and the Finish kit (97" X 49" X 27", 431lbs) I suspect I'd want a pallet jack and lift gate truck to offload. This truck had both, but we did not use either to offload the wing crates.
 
E. D. Eliot said:
as to why more VAF builders don't use PARTAIN.
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I would have been quite happy to do so, but I never even got a reply to my query about delivering my RV-12 tail kit. I'm not the type to chase someone down to give them my business. ABF, while treating my kit somewhat casually, was responsive and pleasant to deal with.

I've heard nothing but good things about Partain and I respect what he does for the RV community, but a "some jobs are too small" business model, while understandable, does not fit my needs.
 
Pallet said:
I'm wondering, does vans put some type of runners underneath the crate so they can be moved with a forklift instead of pushing them around. (Sounds like they are anyway).
Click to expand...

They do but with all my kits that were handled by ABF, they got knocked off somewhere along the line.

Partain is the best! He delivered my finish kit and all was well! I would not use anyone else now that I know better!
 
Thanks for the Info!

airguy said:
False. He brought me my SB wing and fuse kits, and he's scheduled to bring me my SB finishing kit next month.
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I stand corrected. I missed the change in the services Tony offers. Once upon a time, he did not ship SB kits which is why I let Van's ship via ABF. If he has in fact changed his business model, I'll definently look into using him for my fuse and finish kits.
 
Lycoming delivery

on a side note: When I ordered my new 0-360 from Van's it was drop shipped from Lycoming. I mean almost literally "drop" shipped. The cardboard package arrived bolted to a wood pallet.

The cardboard box had two forklift holes in it about 6" above the pallet and about 12" deep into the cardboard box. Luckily, I was there to inspect and had the Fedex Ground driver take it back to Lycoming for inspection (after calls to their factory) Lycoming inspected it and repacked it for long term storage (no charge of course).

Hey, what do you want for only $25K.
 
Partain

For those that have used Partain: Is there a significant cost difference between Partain and ABF? I used ABF a few years ago for delivery of my -10 empennage and wing kits here in Michigan, but with this current thread about damage caused by ABF, I am now worried about delivery of my fuselage and finish kit that I ordered last week. If the cost difference is marginal, I think I would rather go with Partain:(
 
I Set up Partain yesterday to deliver my SB Wings to Florida, He saved me $80 Over Fedex and ABF, Still isnt Cheap but it is cheaper.
-david
 
????

Paul,
When was that? Flyguytki stated above that Tony is shipping his to Florida so I'm wondering if your attempt was recent or not.
 
Ahhh so

Looks likes he's expanded what he'll now ship, which is a very good thing. I'll be giving him a call when I order my fuse and finish kits.
 
I just got off the phone with Tony Partain and am happy to report that he does transport standard build kits. He told me that his pricing is 10% discounted from ABF rates and he will include my -10 fuselage and finish kits in his April delivery schedule. Nice guy to deal with and paying a little less is a bonus I can live with!:)
 
Standard build kits

Partain didn't want to bring my SB wings to FL so I used ABF
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It's not that didn't want to, we didn't have another shipment to match up with yours.

We are shipping standard build kits.

We are not perfect, just small company doing the best we can.
 
CLAIMS

Auburntsts said:
Got my wings via ABF yesterday. This crate had the end bashed in. :(

Picture069.jpg


The damage was minor and limited to bent corners on 4 skins. Luckily, there were no kinks or tears, just bends which I can easily fix. :rolleyes: The pics of this one skin don't show the bends that well, but they are actually sort of S-shaped in cross section as the aluminum compressed when the crate end was caved in.

Picture033.jpg

Picture059.jpg
Click to expand...

I have worked in the past for Freight Companys and I can tell you from experience that the only thing they understand is a claim for damaged freight. That cuts instantly into the bottom line and can't/won't be tolerated.:cool:
 
Does Partain pick up loads "on the road"?

I know it's a question for him but I don't want to waste his time satisfying my curiosity when it doesn't have the potential for revenue generation.

My Dad was in the trucking business so I'm familiar with the term "Dead-Head" when it comes to an empty trailer not producing any revenue. I know Tony's trucks go out loaded but I've always assumed they return empty.

I see kits being advertised on this site (tail, wings, engines, etc....) and I've always wondered if anyone has ever sold a kit to another RV'er and then arranged for Tony's truck to pick up the kit and transport it to the new owner?

Sure seems like Tony has a lot of satisfied customers on this site. I know it wouldn't work in every case but I've always wondered if anyone has ever tried to use him for transportation jobs that originate away from Van's HQ.
 
Last edited:
Should I file?

Well what's the consensus--file or not? My skins are serviceable and don't need to be replaced, however they are not in the same condition as they were when Van's packed them so I did not get what I paid for IMO.

So if I file a claim, should it be for the replacement costs for new skins?
 
I vote that you should file the claim, even if your skins are salvageable. If only so ABF learns their lesson (will they?) and becomes a little more careful.

Maybe I am just hoping the claim will have magically become ultra-careful with Vans' crates for my wing order...
 
Auburntsts said:
Well what's the consensus--file or not? My skins are serviceable and don't need to be replaced, however they are not in the same condition as they were when Van's packed them so I did not get what I paid for IMO.

So if I file a claim, should it be for the replacement costs for new skins?
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Think of it this way; would you have paid full price for their current condition or would you have expected Van's to knock off 15 - 25%? You paid full price; you should expect an undamaged product.
 
Auburntsts said:
Well what's the consensus--file or not? My skins are serviceable and don't need to be replaced, however they are not in the same condition as they were when Van's packed them so I did not get what I paid for IMO.

So if I file a claim, should it be for the replacement costs for new skins?
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What's your time to file a claim worth worth new, hopefully undamaged, skins? I'd fix them and move on. Unless you wrote down on the paperwork that the box was damaged you're already likely out of luck.
 
I did annotate the BOL that I signed that the box was damaged (took photos as well before I opened the crate) and that there was possible unseen damage to the contents.

ABF has an online damage claim submission page so it won't take me 5min to submit it. If I get something out of it, great. Otherwise I plan to press with what I have--at least ABF will know there was a problem. If my skins were damaged beyond repair, that would be a different matter entirely.
 
charger81 said:
I see kits being advertised on this site (tail, wings, engines, etc....) and I've always wondered if anyone has ever sold a kit to another RV'er and then arranged for Tony's truck to pick up the kit and transport it to the new owner?
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Been there, done that.

charger81 said:
Sure seems like Tony has a lot of satisfied customers on this site. I know it wouldn't work in every case but I've always wondered if anyone has ever tried to use him for transportation jobs that originate away from Van's HQ.
Click to expand...

I do know of at least one other kit that was shipped this way also...... http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=17956
 
bought mine from here, had it shipped via Partain

charger81 said:
I see kits being advertised on this site (tail, wings, engines, etc....) and I've always wondered if anyone has ever sold a kit to another RV'er and then arranged for Tony's truck to pick up the kit and transport it to the new owner?
Click to expand...

I bought two separate sub kits from postings on VAF, and one on eBay. Had Partain transport the kit from the sellers location to me. Partain was excellent, and the kits came well packed/protected in the trailer. I will use him again for my finishing kit.
 
Those that are unhappy with ABF, and if Partain is not an option for you, I'd suggest trying Roadway. They delivered my SB wing kit and it arrived in pristine condition. I'm using Tony for my SB fuse kit, but if he was not available, I would definitely use Roadway again.
 
My emp kit came just like your crate looked and from ABF also. I had two skins bent and had ABF replace them.
 
8CW said:
Those that are unhappy with ABF, and if Partain is not an option for you, I'd suggest trying Roadway. They delivered my SB wing kit and it arrived in pristine condition. I'm using Tony for my SB fuse kit, but if he was not available, I would definitely use Roadway again.
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Back in the late 80's when my RV-6 kit was delivered, you could chose between ABF and Roadway. Even back then, I know several people who had problems with ABF. I specified Roadway for all my kits, even when ordering from other kit manufacturers and never had a problem.
 
Sure - file the claim

If you are like me, you will see those little creases every time that you do a pre-flight and ask yourself "why you were so nice to the company that was supposed to ship your kit to you in the same condition as it left Van's?"

If you caused those little creases, would you order new parts from Van's or not? I received my three kits in perfect condition. I bent my rudder skin 'a little crease' and ordered a new skin. Now I have a nice piece of aluminum to practice pulling rivets, dimpling, priming and painting on. And I'll never have to be sorry that I didn't replace the skin - it's only money, right?

Moving on here, the Partain trailer that delivered my first three RV-12 kits to me had several quick builds, several slow builds, and one complete Cub type aircraft inside. The Cub was picked up on the way to my house and was to be delivered somewhere north and east a couple of thousand miles.

This from just another satisfied Partain customer.:cool:
 
Partain didn't want to bring my SB wings to FL so I used ABF
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Occasionally I will turn a customer away. On these instances we may not have another shipment going to that area and can't make the delivery cost effective. I would rather not get the business and keep Vans customers happy than sit on a shipment to wait for another one to that area.
 
Follow-Up

OK, I back on the 7th I went ahead and submitted a damage claim using ABF's online tool (recall I also annotated the BOL that the crate was damaged). I uploaded pics of the damaged crate and bent skins and requested a claim equal to the cost of 3 skins from Van's online parts list. Today I received a check from ABF for the amount I requested. :) No muss or fuss. Although I wish the damage had never happened, I have to give ABF kudos for prompt, no hassle compensation.

However, when I order my fuse I'm going to request Partain shipping as my first choice.
 
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