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New engine mount and nose gear option for RV-7A/9A kits

greghughespdx

Well Known Member
Advertiser
Van's has announced availability of a new option for the RV-7A and RV-9A, which allows builders to choose to install a new engine mount and nose gear leg design based on the RV-14A/RV-10, should they wish. The original design mount and leg remains available to order. More detailed information about this option is available in the announcement on the Van's web site.

For aircraft owners who might wish to retrofit the new mount and gear system to an existing airplane, we have published a document describing the new system and the various potential issues and complexities involved in a retrofit project. That document also includes some details and results related to the change on the factory?s RV-9A demonstrator aircraft, which has been flying with the new mount/gear system in place since earlier this year. This information can be found in Service Letter 19-04-30 on the Van?s Aircraft web site.

People interested in seeing the new mount and gear in-person can come by the Van?s Aircraft booth during the AirVenture in Oshkosh in July. We'll have a QB fuselage there with the new mount and gear attached.
 
Great news!

This modification remedies one of the biggest weaknesses I see in the 7/9A airframe.

Louvers for additional cooling and now an improved nose gear. What are you guys working on and will you bring it to OSH?
 
Excellent!

This remedies a long-term issue with the 9A, whether you want to call it perceived or real. Thanks for listening to the unwashed masses and doing something about it.
 
OK VAF community-

I am at the mounting the cowl phase (engine is hung and mostly plumbed), but this looks very appealing. I am fortunate enough to be less than an hour from Vans so I could run down and grab it in less than an hours drive.

Thinking I should add a little time/money/complexity to the build and do this now.

I know ultimately up to me, but thoughts?
 
Hey All-

Just talked to the fine folks at Vans. Looks like it is $2999 for the kit and they are gearing up for them now so should be available for retro fitting kits soon.

I think for $3K and a month or two of delayed build time I am going to keep my standard Canadian nose wheel/mount at least for now.
 
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Just talked to Vans as well. If you have a recent finish kit and exchange your engine mount and nose leg the price only goes down to $2245. Would love to do this upgrade but I don't think the value added will be worth another 2500 or so with shipping. Also was told the lead time is 1 to 2 months.
 
I still have my mount and gear leg in the box from Vans. Perfect timing if I want to do the upgrade, but that is a lot of money. I?ll really have to think about this one.
 
Very punny

I see what you did there. :D

Hey All-

Just talked to the fine folks at Vans. Looks like it is $2999 for the kit and they are gearing up for them now so should be available for retro fitting kits soon.
 
Excellent timing for me too, as I was just getting ready to pull the trigger on the Finishing Kit. In other news, the Finishing Kit for a -7A is now almost $9500 :eek: Im pretty sure the last order form I had listed it at $7315. I know Vans increases their price once a year but wow!
 
Excellent timing for me too, as I was just getting ready to pull the trigger on the Finishing Kit. In other news, the Finishing Kit for a -7A is now almost $9500 :eek: Im pretty sure the last order form I had listed it at $7315. I know Vans increases their price once a year but wow!

As mentioned in the announcement, the new mount and nose gear is the default standard in the finish kit from this point fwd, and there is a price delta of between the old style and new style of that amount.
 
I’m going to order as soon as I can. Despite assurances from some “experts” to the contrary, the nose gear is a weak point on this airplane. I operate off a somewhat rough grass strip and this redesign will provide additional safety.
 
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I?m going to order as soon as I can. Despite assurances from some ?experts? to the contrary, the nose gear is a weak point on this airplane. I operate off a somewhat rough grass strip and this redesign will provide additional safety margin.

Any idea of the weight increment and moment arm for this new mount/nose gear?

That info is in the Service Letter document that was link to in the first post of this thread.
 
With all due respect to those looking at the cost differences, whats the cost differences of a collapsed gear, a flexed firewall, a prop strike inspection and potential 'other' expenses that could happen? Seems like less expensive insurance to me to do the upgrade.
In my case----I havent bought the mount OR the nose gear---as I'l still on the titerope of taildragger or nosedragger.

Tom
 
I initially was going 9A, but didn't like the delicate nose gear design. So I switched to a tail wheel configuration. Plus I have always wanted to learn the skill.

After Bill Repucci let me taxi, takeoff, and land (with assistance) his 9 ....happy to say I look forward to becoming proficient in the tailwheel 9....and I will save the 3k. It was a lot of fun.
 
I think this announcement just reduced the value of my beautifully made and well equipped RV-14A, but I still wouldn?t sell it for anything less than $50000 
This is a very nice upgrade VANs has done for the 6/7/9 trigear.
 
In light of the snippet below from the new SL ...

"NOTE: Your aircraft will not match these weight and balance figures; this information is taken from a single aircraft and is provided for illustration purposes only. You will need to re-weigh your aircraft and complete a new weight and balance document upon completion of your project.

? Empty weight: Increased from 1088 lbs to 1093 lbs (+5 lbs)

? Nose wheel arm: Moved forward 1.18 inches

? CG in specific typical max-gross-weight loading scenario: Moved forward
from 81.447 inches (21.60%) to 81.174 inches (21.08%)

? Nose wheel weight measured in specific typical max-gross-weight loading scenario: Increased from 318.0 lbs to 333.3 lbs (+15.3 lbs)"


... Folks may want to review the nose gear weight limits as published by Vans:

https://www.vansaircraft.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Nose_gear_service_letter.pdf

Yep, it's not hard to creep up on the nosegear weight limits, especially if you put the larger IO360 up front, and hang a constant speed prop on it. That was a driving factor for me going with a composite prop and moving anything that COULD be moved, aft behind the baggage compartment bulkhead. You have to carry all that stuff, but you can choose where to carry it to a large degree.
 
Tempting, but after reading what a retrofit entails, and considering the cost and added weight, I’d probably elect to convert to tail dragger first. For now I’ll go ahead and install the nose-job #1 I’ve had sitting on the shelf for a while.

I actually think the original nose gear(especially with the nose job) is fine if the GG is kept a bit aft. I’m purposely locating my EWCG during installation of a major series of equipment upgrades so that a 300# crew(my wife and I), reserve fuel, and 80 lbs baggage puts the plane at the aft limit. The result is an an RV with minimal weight on the nose wheel in all loading configurations that is super- nimble flying solo aerobatics, efficient in cruise, and an all-around delight to fly. Well worth the reduced baggage allowance. You can hold the nose wheel off for a looong time and it comes down gently.

Like the previous poster, I also installed a composite Hartzell, and I also eliminated the belt driven alternator and flywheel pulley, and removed the battery and everything else I could from the firewall, all in the interest of reducing polar mass and lightening up on the nose wheel.

I’d definitely welcome this new gear if I were at the pre-finish stage on a new build, though!- Otis
 
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In light of the snippet below from the new SL ...

"By way of illustration, during installation of the new mount and gear system on the Van?s Aircraft RV-9A factory demonstrator aircraft, the following changes were measured before and after the modifications described in this service letter had been completed.

NOTE: Your aircraft will not match these weight and balance figures; this information is taken from a single aircraft and is provided for illustration purposes only. You will need to re-weigh your aircraft and complete a new weight and balance document upon completion of your project.

? Empty weight: Increased from 1088 lbs to 1093 lbs (+5 lbs)

? Nose wheel arm: Moved forward 1.18 inches

? CG in specific typical max-gross-weight loading scenario: Moved forward
from 81.447 inches (21.60%) to 81.174 inches (21.08%)

? Nose wheel weight measured in specific typical max-gross-weight loading scenario: Increased from 318.0 lbs to 333.3 lbs (+15.3 lbs)"


... Folks may want to review the nose gear weight limits as published by Vans:

https://www.vansaircraft.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Nose_gear_service_letter.pdf

Would there not be a revision to these charts or a completely separate chart for the revised nose gear?

I would be surprised if the existing nose gear weight limits apply to the new nose gear design.
 
As mentioned in the announcement, the new mount and nose gear is the default standard in the finish kit from this point fwd, and there is a price delta of between the old style and new style of that amount.

"It might be more expensive, but at least it weighs more"
 
I dont get the price change.

As mentioned in the announcement, the new mount and nose gear is the default standard in the finish kit from this point fwd, and there is a price delta of between the old style and new style of that amount.

The old order form shows 7,575$ for the "A" version. While the Taildragger only increased by about 200$, if you were to choose the original "A" motor mount the price change would be 9,395$ minus 750$ to downgrade to the older style motor mount.

Bottom line: The price for the original "A" increased by 1,070$ and the new style by 1,820$
 
Trip to Vans

Well shoot. I picked up the finish kit a few months back before summer sprung. Looks like I will drive up and pick up the upgrade.

Good thing I didnt drill the firewall for anything yet.
ROAD TRIP. I call shotgun!
 
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With all due respect to those looking at the cost differences, whats the cost differences of a collapsed gear, a flexed firewall, a prop strike inspection and potential 'other' expenses that could happen? Seems like less expensive insurance to me to do the upgrade.
In my case----I havent bought the mount OR the nose gear---as I'l still on the titerope of taildragger or nosedragger.

Tom

The new design doesn't guarantee those things won't happen.

I'm fine with the original design. Treat it with care, taxi slowly, and steer around those chuckholes in the taxiway!
 
OK VAF community-

I am at the mounting the cowl phase (engine is hung and mostly plumbed), but this looks very appealing. I am fortunate enough to be less than an hour from Vans so I could run down and grab it in less than an hours drive.

Thinking I should add a little time/money/complexity to the build and do this now.

I know ultimately up to me, but thoughts?

I would do it n a heartbeat.
 
Halelujah!

I think this is a crucial upgrade. For anyone that has not finished all the accessory mounting FWF, I think the swap is a no-brainer.

For a long time, I expected a third party to come out with a set-up like this. I'm absolutely delighted that Vans got this done.
 
do we all know

Do we all know if the Vettermann exhaust fits with this mod? maybe a tweak to get more cooling airflow out ?

is there anybody out there?
 
Nice

Great to see Vans bringing this improvement to the RV10 and RV14 back to the 6/7/9 models. I wonder what other good ideas they are working on!
 
While there has been some great posts of advantages and disadvantages here I simply don't think the cost difference is particularly reasonable. Now I'm no business man, but as a former engineer I don't see a 2-3k value difference in this design from the original.

Also, look at what Vlad has flow into and out of with the old style. I think I'll invest a little more in how to fly the old version of the -7A.

All that being said... I do GREATLY appreciate the new mentality at Vans to increase product support, upgrades, branding and a general shift in company direction as indicated by this modification that has been asked for for years. Thank you!
 
While there has been some great posts of advantages and disadvantages here I simply don't think the cost difference is particularly reasonable. Now I'm no business man, but as a former engineer I don't see a 2-3k value difference in this design from the original.

The rubber doughnuts alone are pretty expensive.

If I had an airplane under construction, I would definitely consider this. Peace of mind has value to me.
 
Imagine what an upgrade like this would cost on a production/certified aircraft? For those desiring to go this route, 3K is a deal.
 
Figure of Merit

Imagine what an upgrade like this would cost on a production/certified aircraft? For those desiring to go this route, 3K is a deal.
But production airplane guys dont mind dropping close to 5 figures on an annual, so I think it is a different league.
 
what does pivot/shift mean?

From the SL page 2:
... and changes to the gear leg attachment mechanism, which allows the gear leg to pivot/shift differently in a severe gear-overstress scenario
I'm having trouble visualizing what exactly this means - can anyone explain it?
 
Well, I am officially on the order list for retrofits. I'm still not in the air, and while the timing is not ideal, it's still the right time to do it.

Hoping we are closer to the 1 month mark vs. the 2 month mark to get the parts.

Thanks
dan
 
I think this is likely an improvement, but where are the data showing it is? I'm not an engineer, but I can still envision that nose gear folding back and under should the wheel go into a "gopher" hole.

I think AntiSplat needs to take a look at this.
 
Nose Gear Test Video!!

Wow, I hope this thread doesn't degenerate into another cost/benefit argument.

But Vans post a video on their drop testing of the RV14, including a lot of test drops of the new elastomer landing gear!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbFMogBNUa0

I am pretty sure people want to see how high the abuse the nose gear was subjected to before pulling out their credit cards. I want the additional insurance of shock damping feature of the new nose gear if I was to build a 7A or 9A model. I am building an 8 so it doesn't apply to me. :)

Cheers,

Phat Vu
 
James Cowl

I spoke with Vans today and the James Cowls both updraft and foward facing induction versions should not be an issue with fit. The engine will be in roughly the same spot with either engine mount. This would be for new installations. If you decide to retrofit this may be a good time to replace the stock Vans cowl with a James cowl.
 
I think this is likely an improvement, but where are the data showing it is? I'm not an engineer, but I can still envision that nose gear folding back and under should the wheel go into a "gopher" hole

I am an engineer, but haven't run any numbers. This is the same nose gear design that the RV-10 has and it is far more robust than the (relative) noodle on the legacy -A models.

There is no doubt in my mind that this is a real improvement. I guarantee (OK, not really) that we won't see instances with this gear design where a mild bump causes the nose gear to fail. Gopher holes and other horrible forms of abuse? Creative/abusive pilots can fail any nose gear.
 
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$3000, even $2250 seems expensive, how much better is this that the original gear plus the anti splat mod.
Bob Bisbee
1/2 RV14A
 
I'd install this in a minute if I had the time, good for Van's for continuing to make improvements on the older models!
The antisplat is a Band-Aid, this is a real design improvement.
 
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Look What Moves Under Landing Loads

The standard A-model nose gear works by having the gear rod flex at a point up the rod from its transition to the vertical to accommodate the front fork. This flexing motion allows the nose wheel to effectively move aft as a bump is encountered. The "vertical" portion of the gear rod is no longer vertical but rather it is angled aft from vertical. I call this movement "knuckling under". It's easily seen if one watches an A-model without a nose wheel pant taxi over grass.

By contrast, the "new" gear style relies far less on flexion of the nose gear rod; the incorporation of elastomeric suspension donuts and a pivot point near the firewall changes the entire nose wheel suspension dynamic from a stone-simple "bending a rod" suspension to a "compressing elastomers" suspension. The two techniques are vastly different.

While I don't own a Vans aircraft, I have some experience with our Glasair Sportsman. The Sportsman nose gear came into being before the RV10 and I sometimes wonder if Vans used the Sportsman design as a nearly direct copy - yes, they look that similar. This new gear leg for the A-models appears to be a further refinement on a nose gear design which represents a vast improvement in robustness over the original "bending rod" gear.

In short, the new A-model gear looks to be an improvement on an improvement. Knowing what I know about how the Sportsman nose gear works, I would install this new A-model nose gear in a heartbeat. The $2-3K cost wouldn't even be a consideration.

One point to note for those moving to elastomeric donut suspension... In the Sportsman fleet we've seen some deterioration of the donuts in some aircraft when a glowing hot exhaust is routed in close proximity to the donuts. It only takes a very small amount of ingenuity to create a sheet metal heat shield to protect the donuts from the heat of the exhaust. I would highly recommend installing a heat shield to extend the longevity of the elastomeric parts.
 
Regardless of gear design, using proper nose-high landing technique can't be stressed enough. We've got generous elevator area and throw on our planes; let's use it to full advantage by carrying the nose wheel as far into the landing roll as possible. Treat the nose gear as if it were made of balsa wood and let the mains take the brunt of the landing forces. Wait till you're at jogging speed before turning off the runway.

Sorry about the "Captain Obvious" nature of this post, but it's really worth repeating!!
 
Possible less invasive procedure

What is the possibility of getting or possibly making parts to modify my current engine mount. This would potentially eliminate any fit issues with cowl, spinner, baffling, engine mount mounting holes, etc. Strut cover and fairing may be the only items that would need to be replaced. Modifying and welding my mount would be a non issue for me.
 
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Regardless of gear design, using proper nose-high landing technique can't be stressed enough. We've got generous elevator area and throw on our planes; let's use it to full advantage by carrying the nose wheel as far into the landing roll as possible. Treat the nose gear as if it were made of balsa wood and let the mains take the brunt of the landing forces. Wait till you're at jogging speed before turning off the runway.

Sorry about the "Captain Obvious" nature of this post, but it's really worth repeating!!
I watched a gentleman in a tricycle gear certificated plane wheelbarrowing his landing today and was thinking ?that wouldn?t work in a tricycle RV?.
 
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