What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

How do you build in a hangar?

danielhv

danielhv

Well Known Member
So, I am in the middle of a relocation for work, and everything I own was in a storage unit. I HAD a cherokee 180 so I was looking for a hangar. Long wait lists, etc... I decided to sell the 180. 1 week after I sell it, a hangar comes available... imagine that! I went ahead and took the hangar, and eliminated the storage unit. Once I get a house up here, Im going to keep the hangar to build in (possibly). My only concerns are:

1. It only has ONE single 110v outlet. (My compressor is 220v)
2. It only has 1 single light in the hangar

Other than that, its at a nice, new, quiet airport... New hangars, etc... What are the thoughts of those ahead of me or those that have been down a similar road?

Here are a couple of pics of the hangar:

h1.jpg


h2.jpg
 
Looks like rented hangar, so I suspect upgrading the electrical is going to be prohibited.

Get a generator and use it for the lighting and compressor---you will need a big generator for a compressor.

Or get a gas powered compressor. Use the 110v outlet for additional lighting.

You will figure out a way.

Good luck
 
See if the compressor can be wired for 120v.

Daniel, My compressor can run 220 or 120, but it was wired for 120. You will not run it enough that the higher voltage will save you that much money and you will not have to add a 220v circuit. You will probably want to add another 120v circuit, plus add a a few flourescents. They are cheap.

Maybe add heat and a fridge, so you can move in when your other half finds out you ordered an airplane "KIT"!:eek:

Good luck.
David
 
Sublet the hanger out.

Build the bird at HOME. Nothing is warmer or closer than your garage. You will be hard pressed to get in a car and drive to the cold, bare hanger. I like the idea of wandering into my Shop/Cave with 4 seconds of travel time. I've worked in cold, metal hangers; don't like it much. You will be needing lots of light and power you don't have. JMO...YMMV.
 
I build at the hanger, but mine is a super-slow-build project because i'm often money limited. At POC, upgrades to the hangers are 'prohibited' but as long as you do it to CODE, they let you. For instance, my particular 30 year old box hanger has a 20amp 220v circuit as well as the 15 amp 110v lighting circuit it orginally had. It also has a 12x15' office built into it with a wall A/C unit I put in AND insulation.

I use THE craftsman professional oil-lube 30gal horizontal compressor. My old hanger was wired for 110v only, so it worked there, when I got the new one I rewired it for 220v, and it works great in the new one too. All you will ever need for a build.

To avoid cycling the compressor a TON, I suggest buying a 9v makita cordless drill or equivalent. If you are just doing a few holes, it better for setup than the air drill.

I would buy 2 or 3 HIGH OUTPUT 8' florescent light fixtures from home depot (about $30 a piece a couple years ago) those put out good light, and still are cheaper than the other options.
 
T hangars suck for building.

At least it looks like you could heat it.

These work well for heating the type hangar you have. Just crack the door to let some air in....

2258-2m.jpg


As for power, it depends on how far you are from the main service as to what you will be able to get away with. I am in the middle of a row of 10 and I only have 1 115v outlet. I can draw only about 15 amps before I start pulling the voltage down.

I have two built in 1 bulb 8' lights and I added 2 additional 2 bulb 8' lights and that works well. I use a portable dual head halogen worklight where needed.

I have a small compressor, band saw, wide belt sander, 1" belt sander, bench grider, chargers etc. I cannot power them all up at once but I have cords ran to different areas of the hangar.

I connect all the cords to the one outlet with a power strip with a 15amp breaker so that if I overload the strip, the strip trips instead of tripping the outlet breaker.

Anything but a really small compressor is going to be bad. They won't start at higher pressures because of the voltage drop.
 
odlee said:
You will not run it enough that the higher voltage will save you that much money and you will not have to add a 220v circuit.
Click to expand...

HMMM

1/2 amp @ 220V = 110 watts
1 amp @ 110v = 110 watts

We are charged for watts used, not amps.

Power is power no matter what voltage you use.
 
Home Shop

danielhv said:
So, I am in the middle of a relocation for work, and everything I own was in a storage unit. I HAD a cherokee 180 so I was looking for a hangar. Long wait lists, etc... I decided to sell the 180. 1 week after I sell it, a hangar comes available... imagine that! I went ahead and took the hangar, and eliminated the storage unit. Once I get a house up here, Im going to keep the hangar to build in (possibly). My only concerns are:

1. It only has ONE single 110v outlet. (My compressor is 220v)
2. It only has 1 single light in the hangar

Other than that, its at a nice, new, quiet airport... New hangars, etc... What are the thoughts of those ahead of me or those that have been down a similar road?

Here are a couple of pics of the hangar:

h1.jpg


h2.jpg
Click to expand...

Pretty darn hard to beat the shop at home. Closer, warmer, and the cook and fridge are close by AND you may need someone to help buck those pesky rivets.:rolleyes:
 
I think heat is probably your biggest problem if you're in a cold climate. Torpedo heaters work great, but the smell is not too healthy. If the hangar is relatively new, they should have 3 circuits - one 220 for the door, one 110v, 20a for the outlet, and one 110v, 20a for the lighting. I'm sure your door is powered by a 220v motor. Tap into that line to a receptacle for your compressor. That's what I did and I have a three position switch so my compressor doesn't come on when the door is going up or down. 220 is kinder to electric motors. You should also be able to branch out from your lighting circuit to add more lights. If you run conduit to receptacles on a ceiling beam, you can just plug in flourescent works lights that are controlled by the light switch by your walk door. The outlet may be on it's own 15 or 20 circuit (mine is) and you can branch off that to add more convenience outlets too. Most metal buildings are required to follow commercial building codes, so you'll probably need to run metal conduit to all of your receptacles/fixtures. The metal conduit used to serve as a ground, but that is no longer the case almost everywhere. You'll need to run a dedicated ground wire (green) along with the hot and neutral. If you are renting, as long as you do it to code, the airport shouldn't mind since it's an improvement and doesn't cost them anything. While building at home is much better, you'll eventually have to move to the airport and you'll still need lights and a compressor.

Good luck. Looks like a nice new hangar.

Scott
 
a minor quibble

Someone above said to use the electric drill if it is only a few holes. Nope. There is a world of difference in rpm's and the air drill is the right way to go. I did build in the hangar, 100%. But:
  • Airport mgt was in favor
  • There was/is a built-in furnace which is needed in MI
  • There is enough AC for lots of light and for the power tools and computer
    • Computer is for making and changing plans and lists, lots of them
  • I have carpet on the floor.
    • Good: for laying on it and for warmth
    • Bad: very hard to find small parts when you drop them
You can do it. If I can, almost anyone can. Really.
 
jferraro16 said:
What airport is that?

Joe
Click to expand...

Saline County Regional. KSUZ.

And airport management doesnt mind me building in there... im not the only one on the field building. just havent met any of the others yet. I'll be in an apartment for a while which is why im considering doing this... maybe i can just do it temporarily and then when i get another house, ill move it back to the garage. :)
 
hevansrv7a said:
Someone above said to use the electric drill if it is only a few holes. Nope. There is a world of difference in rpm's and the air drill is the right way to go.
Click to expand...



I would agree that a high speed air drill would be optimal, but what difference does it really make? (seriously, I'm not trying to be a smart a$$)
I use an electric drill for everything. I don't own an air drill. 99% of the holes are pre-punched and they're only being enlarged to the correct size. Production speed means nothing to me, and I'd rather not listen to the compressor if I don't have too. The electric is a lot heaver, but I'm also not doing this for a living.






Sorry for the thread drift.
 
air drill difference

I also apologize for the drift, but I think this is a good point for the newbies. The higher rev's make the hole rounder and smoother. And yes, many holes are pre-punched but there are also quite a few ( much more than 1%) that are match drilled or even drilled from measurements. Either way, the quality of the hole is observably better with the correct rpm's. That means that the rivet fits better in the hole and makes a better assembled unit. I don't think that the airplane will fall out of the sky without air-drilling, but it does, IMHO, make an important difference in the quality.

For reference, the correct rpm depends on the material being drilled and the surface speed of the bit which is slower as the size of the bit gets smaller or greater as the size increases (C = Pi *D). An example of this can often be found inside the cover of a drill press. Another example: http://www.ibiblio.org/twa/info/drillSpeedChart.pdf

jcaplins said:
I would agree that a high speed air drill would be optimal, but what difference does it really make? (seriously, I'm not trying to be a smart a$$)
I use an electric drill for everything. I don't own an air drill. 99% of the holes are pre-punched and they're only being enlarged to the correct size. Production speed means nothing to me, and I'd rather not listen to the compressor if I don't have too. The electric is a lot heaver, but I'm also not doing this for a living.
Sorry for the thread drift.
Click to expand...
 
I agree with you Jeff...

During the day, I use the air-drill. If I'am going 'late night' and have to drill some holes I switch to the big Makita to keep the compressor off and the noise of torturing animals down. About 10 PM is a good time for quiet mode.
And actually the Makita cuts that hole very fast.
 
Flying Scotsman said:
Don't forget the "geezer factor" of working on a new plane at the airport. :)
Click to expand...

I actually find that to be a plus. Sure, I spend a little more time talking (but I like to talk about my project). In return, I get more eyes on the airplane and it keeps me focused on doing a good job.

Dragging the thread back onto topic, it can be done if you maintain a good and honest relationship with the airport and vice versa. You can't do much if the airport won't work with you. But at my airport, KFLG, we are lucky enough to have management that works with us. It was not always that way.
 
Outlets.. Get 4 foot wall plug in strips and daisy chain from the first wall outlet. Each strips comes with a small cord/plug. So hook up four or five and i don't think you'll use a bunch of machines all at once so you'll be ok. As far as maintance in your hangar there shouldn't be a problem because the landlords insurance is looking at certified plane maintence ( gas/oil/fuilds) ( possible fire) and the airport is looking at THROUGH THE FENCE OPERATIONS as a A&P or I&A issue. Assembly shouldn't be a problem since a airplane is being made and the parts aren't a RV yet.. Vans recommends in your garage with sub assemblies and I agree with the other guy home is a very WARM place. I'am only 2 miles from the airport in my hangar is all my tools and QB9A. I have the SEARS BLACK (QUIET)compressor 25 gal. 110 v and does a beauitful job for all my rivet needs. I would say don't order a 2X rivet gun. Stay with the 3X and just lower your PSI. SEARS is having BLACK FRIDAY ever saturday till XMAS. Thats when I have bought most garage items and Cleavland and Avery tools. I also recommend A class where you'll build the tail in a week. I did1. Learned so MUCH!!! Ron
 
That hanger looks a lot like the one my plane is in right now. I did all my final assembly while in the hanger. One of the first things I did was install a couple of "high bay" lights which provided pretty decent lighting - at least enough that I could work with the hanger door down in cold weather.

I also only have 1, 110v junction box, which had been the biggest annoyance. I had an electrician that does other work for the owner's of my hanger install the lights - just to make sure it was OK with the owners. If I were doing a lot of building, I would have had him put in at least 1 or 2 more outlets and more lights over my work benchs.
 
Thanks for that grear webpage on DRILL SPEEDS CHARTs ( 2 Pages ) Been looking for one like that! As for the slow drilled hole I can attest to a lower speed with a #30 drill bit the hole looks more trianglar as it wobbles in the hole compared to the HIGH speed DRILLED hole. And the guy is right about keeping that hole ROUND for the rivet, it actually fits more snug in the hole. Thanks guys Ron
 
A friend rented a similar hangar for 15 years. He put his PA-20 Pacer kitty-corner in the front (similar to an RV in length and span) and walled off the box for his shop. He framed it up, used an old patio sliding door for access, insulated the walls and ceiling, added floor-to-ceiling shelves all around, and put a pool table "upstairs". He was permitted to upgrade the electric service for additional capacity. He used propane for heat in the shop only. It was a large vertical tank with 4 radiant burners on top. Had spare wings and fuses hung off the roof beams. It took him a month and a half to move everything when he eventually bought a larger square hangar.
It was quite the lash-up.
 
Um, yes... you should use a air drill for most repetitive tasks. But the Makita works GREAT for a lot of the little stuff you have to do. Ideally, everyone would have a factory, lacking that, this is a hint of what works fine. Trust me, I'm a tool freak, I have all the stuff necessary to build, modify, and maintain metal and fiberglass airplanes.

It's a great idea to use a piloted ream and a drill press for round holes... but again, the makita works great, with very little noticeable difference, that is IF you have sharp bits.... remember, let the bit do the work, IE don't use pressure, let it cut.
 
Hangar/Drill

After building three RV's and restoring two Pipers I have had the opportunity to experience what works well and what doesn't.

First if you can build at home, "build at home". Your project will go much faster and the wife will be more supportive (usually).

Drills, the quality of the hole has never been an issue with a good cordless with dual speed settings. The compressed air option is a hassle and the hose is always in the way. My process is two have three identical 18V cordless drills and chargers with two battery packs per drill. Keep a #30 in one, a #40 in the second and use the third for everything else. Also make sure you keep a good supply of #30 and #40 bits and always use a good sharp bit. On rare occasion the air drill does come in handy.

Use the air for grinders, sanding disc, debur tools.

My 2 cents.

Pat
 
it's all about power...

my whole build has been in rented space. after getting most of the way through the fuselage i moved to a hangar and can say that there is a definite loss of productivity from the lack of heat, light, power, services, etc. on the bright side there are lots of people with knowledge that are willing to lend a hand. many rental hangars are very light on available power; as little as 5 amps which will not do. make sure that your compressor will run, or any usable compressor... then focus on lights and go with florescent to save on the power, halogens are nice but they will burn out with power surges and they gobble up way too much when you are forced to spider from a single duplex receptacle.

you will likely have to reset the breaker once in a while so make sure that you know where it is and have access to it...

daniel, good luck... now get back to pounding rivets (and update your website)
 
I just work with what is available

I have a 110 VAC compressor that I built the plane with. I bought it at one of the warehouse department stores. It will easily pop small circuit breakers so when I use it everything else is off. That may not work for you if your C/B is is a low current unit. It is there to protect the wiring which may be too small for what you would like to do - see what you can draw and buy a compressor to match (in airplane terms they are cheap).

I have an air drill but seldom use it at the hangar and an electric drill works fine. Don't use dull drills and debur the holes ( I had no prepunched holes). You are looking for what works not utopia.

For riveting, I hand squeeze the rivets whenever possible but you often must use a gun and bucking bar so the compressor is essential.

You need a good large workbench - I built mine out of 3/4" plywood and 2"x4"s. The top is 4'x8' and a decent vise is mounted on one corner.

Two power tools that I found to be almost essential are a drill press and a grinder. Both were bought at Sears along with floor stands. They can just stand along the wall somewhere.

For lights I bought some floor standing lights and a shop light at Walmart and they work fine. The best light is natural light so when possible I open the door slightly which gives great general light and says "yes I'm in here working but I don't want to be disturbed." Spectators are a hinderance to progress.

For heat in the winter time I wear warm clothes and use an electric heater. In the summer time no heat is needed and you sweat a little.

Cleanliness is very important so I bought a shop vac to pick up all the drill chips and sanding dust.

I personally would never make changes to a rental hangar because it does not belong to me. The one you have looks very nice.

Bob Axsom
 
danielhv said:
So, I am in the middle of a relocation for work, and everything I own was in a storage unit. I HAD a cherokee 180 so I was looking for a hangar. Long wait lists, etc... I decided to sell the 180. 1 week after I sell it, a hangar comes available... imagine that! I went ahead and took the hangar, and eliminated the storage unit. Once I get a house up here, Im going to keep the hangar to build in (possibly). My only concerns are:

1. It only has ONE single 110v outlet. (My compressor is 220v)
2. It only has 1 single light in the hangar

Other than that, its at a nice, new, quiet airport... New hangars, etc... What are the thoughts of those ahead of me or those that have been down a similar road?

Here are a couple of pics of the hangar:

... photos snipped for brevity ...
Click to expand...

I hope that you can stand yet another piece of advice ...

When I started my RV this one fellow told me not to build at an airport because it will be hard to get any work done. Pilots will walk by and want to talk to you and you will wind up wasting a great deal of time; and in my limited experience, I have found that to be quite valid.

As for me, I rented some warehouse space and do my building there. It is big, cheap, private, secure, close to my home, and it has plenty of electric and water.

Therefore, what may work for you is to sublet your hanger until you get your RV on-line, and in the meantime rent some warehouse space to do your building (just do a check of commerical properties in your area and you may be pleasantly surprised at the bargins you can find).

I hope this helps!
 
Thanks for all the replys... I dont know if the airport mgmt will LET me sublease the hangar... so i may just end up having to let it go (which I hate to do since they seem so rare).
 
danielhv said:
Thanks for all the replys... I dont know if the airport mgmt will LET me sublease the hangar... so i may just end up having to let it go (which I hate to do since they seem so rare).
Click to expand...

Letting the hanger go may be an option, but my advice is to make it your last option.

Can you ask around if there is someone willing to trade workshop space for hanger space?

If the management will not allow you to sub-let, then perhaps you can just say that the new user is simply "borrowing" your hanger space for a while.

Also, before you give up your hanger, check around about commercial property because it may turn out that the hanger is a good deal after all even if it means that you will need a generator, some extra lights, heat, outlets, and so on.

Good luck in any case!
 
Last edited:
If no sublet to the lease, you can always engage in a partnership.

Got a buddy that needs a hangar, who is willing to sell you 1% of his plane???
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top