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ECI heads/cylinders AD

meyer228

Active Member
Just curious.... anyone still running ECI cylinders/heads that are subject to the AD...? And require the 50-hour compression check? Hour many hours??
 
Thanks for sharing...

Cool..

Okay follow up questions - Do you find yourself doing anything a little more cautiously? Making sure you don't shock cool? Make sure you've get the CHT's in the "green" before take off??

Also, from what I understand the failure mechanism (if there is one) isn't necessarily catastrophic engine failure but, separation of the head from the cylinder and subsequent partial loss of power. Right?

As you could likely guess, I have purchase a 9a with the ECI Group B cylinders/heads. < Correction - I have Group A >

Thanks for sharing your info...
 
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Best cylinders I ever took off a plane. Wish I had kept them, but resale and all that. New ones burn more oil and have lower compression. Go figure.
 
My eci cylinders were a constant pain. I replace rings three times in 950 hours. The rings would delaminates and eventually I had to rebuild the whole engine due to the ring metal in the system. New lycoming jugs were installed and all is well.
 
Do you find yourself doing anything a little more cautiously? Making sure you don't shock cool? Make sure you've get the CHT's in the "green" before take off??

No. I make sure my oil is at or above 100F before takeoff but dont worry about shock cooling any more than I worry about shock heating. I havent heard of any data suggesting that failure rates are any higher on Group A cylinders than non-AD cylinders. I do look over the engine every time the cowl is off, but I would do that anyway.

erich
 
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I installed a new set of ECI cylinders with 10:1 pistons 4 years ago. I have a few hundred hours on them, run them hard, dual EI's, cold air induction, no problems. Injected 360 parallel valve. Rumor has it that shock cooling is a myth. Consider what happens when you fly in the rain, instant cooling with no damage.
 
Rumor has it that shock cooling is a myth. Consider what happens when you fly in the rain, instant cooling with no damage.

Yeah, I've thought the same thing... although it still makes me think twice when it's super cold outside and I'm up high and I just chop and drop...
 
Yeah, I've thought the same thing... although it still makes me think twice when it's super cold outside and I'm up high and I just chop and drop...

Oh, you mean like the glider towplanes, or the skydiver planes? Over and over again, all day long every day... :cool:
 
Yowza, i mixed up Group A and Group B, and have now gone back and corrected my earlier posts. Maybe the original poster mixed up A and B as well?

Im comfortable with my Group A cylinders. Not so much if I had Group B

erich
 
Oh, you mean like the glider towplanes, or the skydiver planes? Over and over again, all day long every day... :cool:

I was just thinking about flying from Lake Tahoe to Sacramento when you have to loose about 10K ft over about 60-70 miles...
 
Yowza, i mixed up Group A and Group B, and have now gone back and corrected my earlier posts. Maybe the original poster mixed up A and B as well?

Im comfortable with my Group A cylinders. Not so much if I had Group B

erich

Yeah, I did... Group B are the replace ASAP (before 300 hours?) Group A are the 50 hour compression check.
 
I was just thinking about flying from Lake Tahoe to Sacramento when you have to loose about 10K ft over about 60-70 miles...

Why would you pull off power for that descent? Just keep the throttle in, trim nose down, keep it lean, reduce throttle as you hit 75% and enjoy the speed!

At least that?s how I fly long descents..... ;)
 
Why would you pull off power for that descent? Just keep the throttle in, trim nose down, keep it lean, reduce throttle as you hit 75% and enjoy the speed!

At least that’s how I fly long descents..... ;)

At least with my old 6A, If I kept the power in (and even if I wouldn't...lol) I would run right through VNE (210 MPH) easily.
 
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One of our group A cylinders separated at the threaded joint, just as described with the AD. ECI could not have cared less, basically **** happens. Well you will not see this puppy purchase another, not because of the failure but because of their attitude.
 
Why would you pull off power for that descent? Just keep the throttle in, trim nose down, keep it lean, reduce throttle as you hit 75% and enjoy the speed!

At least that?s how I fly long descents..... ;)

Ditto - we pay enough for the climb, why not enjoy the need for speed on the way back down ?

And we are now frugal Seniors - eh Paul ;)

It is dismaying that once a lot of guys and gals finish their license, they don't get ongoing mentoring in the finesse and performance enhancements of airplane operation.

I was lucky to be tutored well, both by a couple of great pilots, but also and as importantly, by a great Engineer. When you balance the both, you begin to establish some personal SOP's that will stand you in good stead to operate efficiently and wisely.

I operated 3 piston singles for skydiving for nearly 10 years - stuck to good SOP's, never blew a cylinder, all 3 went beyond TBO.
 
With Van's redefining Vne in terms of TAS, my RV-8 with a YIO-360-M1B will exceed its Vne of 230 MPH TAS if I don't bring back the power in a descent. Van's (possibly conservative) redefinition of Vne in terms of a constant TAS value at all altitudes, limits the RV-8's downhill performance.


Sorry for the thread drift!

Yeah, that's kind of what I experienced. TAS VNE really easy to bust... No complaints. Just need to manage it...and descend earlier...
 
Cool..

Okay follow up questions - Do you find yourself doing anything a little more cautiously? Making sure you don't shock cool? Make sure you've get the CHT's in the "green" before take off??

Also, from what I understand the failure mechanism (if there is one) isn't necessarily catastrophic engine failure but, separation of the head from the cylinder and subsequent partial loss of power. Right?

As you could likely guess, I have purchase a 9a with the ECI Group B cylinders/heads. < Correction - I have Group A >

Thanks for sharing your info...

Wrong..... it will still produce enough power to keep the aircraft in the air. BUT the aircraft will shake violently enough that you will want to get on the ground ASAP. You will need to reduce power to avoid tearing then motor from it's mounts.
 
With Van's redefining Vne in terms of TAS, my RV-8 with a YIO-360-M1B will exceed its Vne of 230 MPH TAS if I don't bring back the power in a descent. Van's (possibly conservative) redefinition of Vne in terms of a constant TAS value at all altitudes, limits the RV-8's downhill performance.

Note where Redline is (in terms of MPH IAS) in the screenshots below, at much less than 75% power.

400 FPM descent at 9800':

i-Nq7JcgK-M.png


600 FPM descent at 16,120':

i-5csHKL5-M.png


Sorry for the thread drift!

Of course you have to observe all operating limits -but you descend at speed, throttling back just enough to observe Those limits, and get a nice fast ride downhill - you don?t have to pull all the power off to where you?re worried about cooling in order to lose 10,000? in 60 miles....
 
Prop driving engine

Lycoming rep advised me to keep manifold pressure at 18" or above to prevent prop from driving engine. I used to think it was around 15" min but not so. Prop driving engine is not good. Constant speed prop really helps with the need to loose altitude while maintaining proper manifold pressure.
 
Lycoming rep advised me to keep manifold pressure at 18" or above to prevent prop from driving engine. I used to think it was around 15" min but not so. Prop driving engine is not good.

Why not? Isn’t this essentially what happens every time we descend with a constant speed prop?

Erich
 
ECI Titans Group A

I have ECI Titans, Group A on the front and Lycomings (nitrided) on the rear of my O-360 A1A in my Comanche. 850 hours on the ECI's and 1230 hours on the Lycomings. No cylinder has been off the airplane since original installation and compressions in the 70's, although the ECI's are in the low 70's and the Lycomings in the mid 70's.
 
ECI group A cylinders

You should read the AD carefully. IMSC, group A cylinders have to be pulled if their compression is 70/80 or below. If they’ve separated at the head to barrel interface ( via the soap bubble test ) they go in the dumpster but if it’s a valve or rings they can be repaired and put back in service until their service life of 2000 hrs This is different than Lycoming’s SI 1191 : “ If the pressure reading for all cylinders is equal and above 70 psi; the engine is satisfactory; less then 65 psi indicates wear has occurred and subsequent compression checks should be made at 100 hour intervals to determine rate and amount of wear. If the pressure reading is below 60 psi or if the wear rate increases rapidly, as indicated by appreciable decrease in cylinder pressure, removal and overhaul of the cylinders should be considered.” I’ve run group A cylinders and considered their potential for cracking no different than late ECI cylinders ( 60,000 serial numbers and above) . I had a recent experience with a Repair Station who didn’t want to hone and re-ring a set of group A cylinders with 1200 hrs snew. They felt once they came off the engine the next stop should be the dumpster. I guess I understand but that’s not what the AD says. As a data point these 1200 hr cylinders had exhaust guides worn beyond service limits and 3 of the exhaust valves were as well.
Just my thoughts and as they say “ Your mileage may vary.”
 
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cylinders

Flying since 2009 with the group A. Almost 1300 hours, never a hick up, burns about 1 quart in 50 hours.
 
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