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Dropped tempest plugs

R

rv4bill

Well Known Member
Had the plugs out of my plane today to clean them and had them in a 12 spark plug holder that my A&P had loaned me. My hanger door was open and in walks a gent claiming to be a 30 year A&P that noticed my rocket and wanted to take a look. My new uninvited friend walks under my prop and kicks over all my spark plugs that were neatly held in the holder and in the proper order. They ended up all over the floor on the concrete. He proceeded to apologize and while picking them up asked that if I get them tested and if one fails he would pay for it.
These are tempest plugs but not the fine wire ones. I asked two other reputable A&P's on the field and they both said they throw them all away and have the guy buy you new ones. I approached the perp and asked that he replace my plugs and he said they would be fine if I simply tested them. He then asked how many hours I had on them and he would pay the value of "life" that they had left. My plugs only have 130 hours on them. What say you VAF friends??

I know he didn't purposely kick them over, but now I'm out 300$$


On another note and since I'm buying new plugs... Which ones are best for an IO540 that has 9-1 pistons?
 
Well, you are asking so:
Let it go. Accept his apology. Thank him for his offer but decline. It was an accident and it could have happened to anyone.....including you or I. I've kicked over things more than once and realized afterward that I should have put the item in a safer place.
Lesson learned is be more careful where we place things :).
Good Luck and enjoy your new friend :).
 
Post 2 is the classy way. A real PITA, but the best way nevertheless.

Test the plugs and if some don't seem outwardly ruined, carry a couple as spares in case you should need one sometime far from home.

Dan
 
If he kicked them over vs. dropping them, I would test them all.....clean them up and put them back in if ok.....many or all may be fine.....cursing and beer always seems to work pretty well also.
 
G5Driver said:
If he kicked them over vs. dropping them, I would test them all.....clean them up and put them back in if ok.....many or all may be fine.....cursing and beer always seems to work pretty well also.
Click to expand...

I agree.
You said kicked, so I assume you mean they were on the floor and he dumped them out with an accidental kick?
If so, then they didn't actually have much of a drop impact onto the floor, my opinion is they will all test fine.
 
Bad for magnetos

I had a coil go bad in one of my magetoes and was told by a mag repair shop that a bad plug can cause the coil to go bad. I remember dropping a plug during the first installed, it looked fine and performed fine. I checked the resistance of my plugs at much later date and found one that failed the test. I explained this to the mag shop tech and he said that that is most likely what caused the coil to fail.

I'd pitch them. I know it sucks but beats replacing a mag coil.
 
Thanks for the replies. I'll keep a few as spares just in case and order myself some new ones on Monday.

Still need to know which plug works best for IO540 with 9-1 pistons?
 
Drop John Herman an email.. he will be glad to help I'm sure..

"My name is John Herman and I am President of Tempest Plus Marketing Group, LLC. I noticed you have had an issue with corrosion on your Tempest plugs. When we acquired the product line from GE (Unison), our goal was to improve on a product we felt was already of very high quality. One of the areas we felt we could improve was the plating material and process due to some reports of corrosion. We have since made the necessary improvements and are happy to report very good results in reducing corrosion. I will be honest, the only way to totally eliminate corrosion is to go to a stainless steel and that is cost prohibitive. However, I believe you will be vary satisfied with the improvements.

If you will please email me your contact information I will be happy to resolve the issue you are having to your satisfaction. My email address is [email protected].

Thank you for your business and support. Look forward to hearing from you soon."
 
WOW! I've always been impressed with Tempest but much more so now. I buy all their stuff but no more vacuum pumps!!!
 
Bill,

A friend of mine, Brian Kilby forwarded your message to me. Unfortunately, there is no test that can reveal a cracked insulator, which is typically what occurs when plugs are dropped, or in your case kicked over. The problem is that as the plug is used the crack will continue to grow due to the thermal cycles of engine operation. At some point, the crack will be large enough to allow the spark to ground through the crack and to the spark plug shell, shorting out the plug. Even though it may seem unreasonable, replacing the plugs is the only recommendation I am comfortable making as the manufacturer.

Considering your unfortunate situation, I will be happy to work with you directly to insure you get replacement plugs at as little financial impact on you as possible. It is more important to me and my company that you have good safe plugs in your airplane, than us making a profit on the sale of plugs to you. So, please contact me directly at [email protected] and we will work out an arrangement. I will also need the specific dash number on your engine as well as the harness size to determine the best plug for your engine. I am currently in Croatia at the Red Bull Air Race, so if there is a delay in my response it is due to the time difference.

I look forward to hearing from you and thank you for your support and business!

John Herman
 
Wow! I use Tempest plugs and filters because I like them. After having read the post above, I have a whole new reason to buy them. Well done John and Tempest.
 
Yes!

I agree. A couple of years ago I changed over to Tempest everything on my airplane (plugs, filters, gaskets, etc.) and couldn't be happier.

Vic
 
jcherman said:
Considering your unfortunate situation, I will be happy to work with you directly to insure you get replacement plugs at as little financial impact on you as possible. It is more important to me and my company that you have good safe plugs in your airplane, than us making a profit on the sale of plugs to you. So, please contact me directly at [email protected] and we will work out an arrangement. I will also need the specific dash number on your engine as well as the harness size to determine the best plug for your engine. I am currently in Croatia at the Red Bull Air Race, so if there is a delay in my response it is due to the time difference.

I look forward to hearing from you and thank you for your support and business!

John Herman
Click to expand...

Wow! Just Wow!
 
It goes to prove that a great customer service is good for business.

Most if not all aviation shop that I have dealt with, have had great customer service but some just go a few notches above
 
Thanks John

John,

I will get the dash number and harness size to you this week.
I appreciate your offer to help with cost but it is not necessary. After surfing your site I noticed that you make a plug specifically for the Electroair system as I will be adding that unit this summer.

I didn't expect to hear from the president of tempest over an minor incident that shouldn't have been posted to begin with. I am just a pilot and not an A&P and had heard a rumor about dropped plugs. The reason I posted earlier was because I was a little miffed that a 30 year A&P who had accidentally knocked over my plugs had NO problem having me reinstalling these plugs and fly my kids around.

One of the A&P mechanics had mentioned that being I was getting new plugs that I should make sure I get a "colder" plug being I had a little higher compression piston. I'm not sure that I didn't have the proper Tempest plugs to begin with.

Tempest plugs, Tempest oil filters will always have my business.
 
Tempest

Great company, good products, excellent and responsive customer focused, what more can you ask for? How about a tray for plugs that can't get kicked over? Just kidding. Seriously, it's great to see this type of response from someone in a true Leadership position. Thanks for providing a great lead-in story for my next speaking engagement.
Cj
74ga
 
I agree, Tempest folks provide great customer service, I have had a number of good experiences with them :D
 
Consequences

He walked into your shop uninvited and caused damage? Yes you had them laying on the floor, but you can do that, its your shop. Nothing wrong with Americans learning to take responsibility for their own actions - its seems there is too little of that left already.
 
N941WR said:
What he said!

Way to go Tempest!
Click to expand...

I agree with what both of you said.

I switched to Tempest a couple years ago after reading about the oil filter compared to the other major brand, with Tempest having more pleats and the magnetic component, and about $4 cheaper.
And, I switch my plugs to Tempest last year.

After reading the mfgr post, I will definitely communicate it to other aviators.
 
Fastwind67 said:
He walked into your shop uninvited and caused damage? Yes you had them laying on the floor, but you can do that, its your shop. Nothing wrong with Americans learning to take responsibility for their own actions - its seems there is too little of that left already.
Click to expand...

Amen to this post and apologies for disagreeing with post #2! Regardless of the outcome (did the plugs survive, didn't they, how much life was left on them, etc), the bottom line is that the persons inattention or accident caused you a problem. Shouldn't he be responsible for whatever resolution you see fit? I know I would feel very guilty for causing another person heartache (even though it was not intentional) and I would do what it takes to make it right for the person. I would realize that I'm not in a position to negotiate! It bothers me when people don't take responsibility for their actions.
 
Bill,

Thanks for getting back to me. I will wait to hear from you regarding the proper plug for your application. We do make the special 'HE' (high energy) plug for the Electroair ignition. We have recently received PMA and can now sell the spark plugs to the aftermarket through our distribution network. Contact me when you are ready for the HE plug and I will be sure you get the correct plug for your application.

Although, I understand your intent was not get any special treatment, I do monitor various blogs to try and help our customers whenever it is needed. It is important to me that our customers are satisfied. One pet peeve of mine is companies that feel the sale is over once they have received your payment. We believe once a customer upgrades to our products we become partners and work together to assure you have a good experience. The more you fly, the more spark plugs, oil filters, vac pumps, etc., I sell....we all win.

Therefore, my offer still stands. So email me when you have the information and I will be sure you are taken care of.

Thank you again for your business!
 
Mr Herman has made a business choice that will carry them forward as a leader in the industry. Now I am going to go warm up my RV and my Tempest plugs.
 
rv4bill said:
John,

I will get the dash number and harness size to you this week.
I appreciate your offer to help with cost but it is not necessary. After surfing your site I noticed that you make a plug specifically for the Electroair system as I will be adding that unit this summer.

I didn't expect to hear from the president of tempest over an minor incident that shouldn't have been posted to begin with. I am just a pilot and not an A&P and had heard a rumor about dropped plugs. The reason I posted earlier was because I was a little miffed that a 30 year A&P who had accidentally knocked over my plugs had NO problem having me reinstalling these plugs and fly my kids around.

One of the A&P mechanics had mentioned that being I was getting new plugs that I should make sure I get a "colder" plug being I had a little higher compression piston. I'm not sure that I didn't have the proper Tempest plugs to begin with.

Tempest plugs, Tempest oil filters will always have my business.
Click to expand...

Can't say enough about Tempest, their improved procucts, etc.
I teach a class for pilots on how to do preventive maintenance on their aircraft. I pass around a fine wire plug that had been dropped, with the cracks in the ceramic very visible. I point out you cannot always see the cracks, that the plug needs to be replaced.
As to the higher compression, the Lycoming angle valve engines with stock pistons are 8.7 compression and use 38 series plugs such as REM38E with no problems. I would expect that to be fine with your 9.0 pistons.
Harness size is simply whether you have all weather plugs with 3/4" nuts or standard plugs with 5/8" nuts. RHM series are the larger nut, REM the standard.
 
This thread makes me wish Tempest manufactured a replacement for BR8ES auto plugs (or the iridium equivalent). I'd buy them in a heartbeat for my electronic ignition. Especially if they fit my 18mm plug holes without an adapter.

Good company, great service. That's what it's all about.
 
Sorry to steal this thread, but I really like manufacturers who support us little guys. So, I want to give Tempest as much of my business as I can. This is where I need your expert help.

I am currently using Champion oil filters, CH48108-1 and would like to change to Tempest. There isn't an exact match in Spruce' site but there is a AA48108-2. Is that the correct match? Not sure what the last number represents.

As long as I am on the subject of supporting those that support our hobby and this fabulous resource ( thanks Doug) I don't see Spruce advertised! Am I missing their ad or are they not a supporter? If not, is there a supporter who does sell Tempest oil filters?

Again, sorry to hijack this thread :eek:
 
Good people ...

jcherman said:
Bill,

Thanks for getting back to me. I will wait to hear from you regarding the proper plug for your application. We do make the special 'HE' (high energy) plug for the Electroair ignition. We have recently received PMA and can now sell the spark plugs to the aftermarket through our distribution network. Contact me when you are ready for the HE plug and I will be sure you get the correct plug for your application.

Although, I understand your intent was not get any special treatment, I do monitor various blogs to try and help our customers whenever it is needed. It is important to me that our customers are satisfied. One pet peeve of mine is companies that feel the sale is over once they have received your payment. We believe once a customer upgrades to our products we become partners and work together to assure you have a good experience. The more you fly, the more spark plugs, oil filters, vac pumps, etc., I sell....we all win.

Therefore, my offer still stands. So email me when you have the information and I will be sure you are taken care of.

Thank you again for your business!
Click to expand...

John (and Vince) over at Tempest are "good people".

Disclosure: They support Team AeroDynamix and were are proud of it.

I am scheduled to do some testing of some of the plugs they supply to ElectroAir and (with their permission) will report the results. Going by what I was told some time ago by Jeff Rose (original designer of ElectroAir) and given the options Tempest supplies, I expect a slight performance increase.

Possibly, "film at eleven!". :)

James
 
Hi Paul,

In 2001 Champion changed their filter design because Purolator discontinued manufacturing their filter for Champion, forcing Champion to find another supplier. Champion then contracted with Baldwin in Kearney NE to make their filter. However, they made approximately eight changes to the design resulting in a required part number change mandated by the FAA. That is when they went to the -1 part number. They also shortened the filter slightly. When we introduced our filter in 2004 we used the basic part number (no dash number) because it was built to the original height. After a couple of years we shortened our filter, (short filters only), so we now have the shortest filter in the industry and it is a -2 series. So, sorry for the long answer, but now you know the history. Bottom line is our AA48108-2 filter replaces CH48108 and CH48108-1. Call Don Arrington or John Markley at Spruce in Peachtree City (800-831-2949), they will take good care of you. If you have any further questions or I can help in any other way, please email me at [email protected].

Thank you for your business!
 
Paul K said:
As long as I am on the subject of supporting those that support our hobby and this fabulous resource ( thanks Doug) I don't see Spruce advertised! Am I missing their ad or are they not a supporter? If not, is there a supporter who does sell Tempest oil filters?
Click to expand...

Though Spruce may not advertise on VAF, you can be sure they peruse VAF posts in order to identify potential situations early which may impact them. VANs, Stein, ACS, and many others watch VAF and chime in when appropriate and pay close attention to what their customers are saying.

Good business people are constantley aware of the ever changing business climate they are in. VAF is one way to do that. Power to the people!
 
John, Thanks for the explanation. That really helps.

Bruce, Thanks also, just want to do whats best for our hobby.

Paul
 
Dash number

John

The dash number is a C4B5

And the harness size is the REM plug and it uses a 3/4" wrench.
Engine now has new Titan cylinders that are 9-1 compression and using bendix mags with shower of sparks. Engine Is
An IO-540-C4B5

Thanks for all the support and for confirming that any dropped or kicked over ceramic plug goes in the nearest trash can.
 
Bill,

Your engine can take either the UREM38E or UREM40E massive spark plugs. The 38 is a colder plug, so if you have a tendency to experience any lead or carbon fouling, I suggest you go with the 40 which is a little hotter and will burn off the deposits better. If you are flying a lot of hours, say 150 or more per year, or you are experiencing chronic hard starting, fouling or engine roughness at altitude, then you may want to invest in the fine wire plug, which is a UREM38S.

Please let me know what I can do further to help. My offer still stands...just let me know.

Thanks again for your business!
 
John

I would like to get 12 of the UREM40E. That's the plug I had in the plane.

My address is:
Totally Mod
c/o Bill Whidden
11124 satellite blvd
Orlando fl. 32837

407-616-7764

Any assistance is greatly appreciated and the next time you are in Central Florida there's a Rocket ride to lunch on me!
 
Final Chapter to dropped spark plug saga.

I received a phone call earlier from a person named Jack that said he was with Aircraft Spruce. I'm not sure of Jack's position with the company. He asked if John from Tempest had sent me any spark plugs yet. I had told him that I'd sent John my address this am and he was still out of the country. Jack informed me that he was placing 12 new tempest spark plugs in the mail today. He said he was monitoring this thread and didn't want me to wait to get theses plugs and would get with john later to settle up. I've never purchased from either of these companies in the past and they have gone way above the level of service any of us would ask for. Just to be clear, I only posted to vent about a clumsy A&P's accident in my hanger and which plugs are best for my engine set up. I think these two companies are making a statement that their customers and potential new customers come first and profit will follow.

The end.
 
rv4bill said:
I think these two companies are making a statement that their customers and potential new customers come first and profit will follow.
Click to expand...

Totally agree, in fact, I just sent a message off to John asking a couple questions------fully intend to switch over to the Tempest plugs and oil filter at the next opportunity.

The power of VAF:D
 
Awesome ending.. but I have one question... How in the world do you own a plane and have never bought anything from Aircraft Spruce??? That is some feat in itself. :D
 
Hands Down!!!

Tempest Is The Best of The Best Hands down!!!! I give them the award for the BEST AVIATION SUPPORT COMPANY ever..... !!!! :D
 
Bill,

Just wanted to follow up. I am in Zurich and tomorrow will be home! However, in my absence Jack Samuels from Aircraft Spruce has emailed me this morning to let me know that he has already taken care of you and shipped your new plugs. As a side note, that is why Spruce is our largest distributor...customer service! I have emailed Jack and told him we will square up with him and our Brian Cox, Western Regional Manager is making arrangements to do so now.

Just want to thank you for your kind words and support. Please let me know if you have any further questions or if I can ever be of help to you in the future. If you go to Sun 'n Fun or Oshkosh, please come by the booth and say hello!

Thanks again for your business.
 
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