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Bailing Out Of A RV6

Plumbmaster

Active Member
The question has arisen as to whether or not it is possible to open the canopy while in flight. Specifically, can the slider on a RV6A be slid open while in flight in order to bail out? Has anyone had a slider open on them accidentally? Has anyone bailed out of a RV?
This all has to do with aerobatics and whether or not it's possible to bail out...I mean we all have parachutes-right? :)
 
This all has to do with aerobatics and whether or not it's possible to bail out...I mean we all have parachutes-right? :)

Not if we are solo...

I would be more concerned with a typical GA pilots ability (or lack thereof) to stabilize in freefall and deploy said chute.
 
Bailing Out Explained-Somewhat...

Ok, according to a Ron Schrek webinar I just watched, parachutes are not required for solo aerobatics, but they are recommended. He also describes changing the bolts that hold the front of the slider with quick release pins. There's a lot more of very helpful information about RV aerobatics on his webinar which can be found here:

http://www.eaavideo.org/detail/videos/webinars/video/5759939643001/webinar--rv-aerobatics

This webinar is designed to simplify and encourage RV pilots with aerobatic airplanes (-3, -4, -6, -7, -8) to fly aerobatics as he believes it will make us safer pilots.

Not to mention the FUN factor.

Thanks for your responses.
 
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Not if we are solo...

I would be more concerned with a typical GA pilots ability (or lack thereof) to stabilize in freefall and deploy said chute.

I know over the span of five decades several (5+) glider pilots that have bailed out with little or no training and most made it.

Most of them did not use the static line cockpit attachment that is (was?) used in Europe and hence were freefall.
 
>I know over the span of five decades...

I know of SIX successful bail outs in the past 4 months alone. While two were test pilots at Mojave and may very well have jump experience, the other 4 did not. Being an experienced skydiver will add immeasurably to your opportunity for success and body position _is_ important, but the basics still apply: Get clear of the aircraft, LOOK, REACH and PULL.
 
Slider can't be fully open in flight at speed. You need removable forward pins on sliders. When we say bailout, we are taking round emergency chutes for glider/sport/aerobatic/warbird pilots, round emergency chutes, not the skydiving square parachutes you can steer and flare. FORGET THAT. The latter requires real training. The round emergency chute needs little training, because it has slow forward speed and can't stall it, but even emergency round chutes do need some forethought....

This sounds obvious but you need a chute to bailout. Many people own emergency chutes and leave it in the hanger. They get them and don't use them. Chutes are kind of heavy, little bulky, not super comfortable to sit on (compared to that custom upholstery with temper foam). I wore my chute in my RV-4 only when I planned to do aerobatics. However I read of accidents involving catastrophic fire, the pilot perished, their chute sitting in hanger would have saved their life. I started wearing it all the time.

I sat in on Allen Silver's Seminar at Oshkosh about 20 years ago on Emergency Chute for Sport and War Bird Pilots (non jumpers)... There were so many things I learned I never considered. You need to practice and think about it on the ground and repeat mental pre-brief, so when it happens you are ready. This is Allen's page. (If you get a chance to hear him talk do it.)

http://silverparachutes.com/

Allen is Mr. Parachute. He has packed 40,000 chutes and is well known in the parachuting hobby, especially in California. Not saying you need to do an actual jump but consider:
A) Recognize need for bailout
B) What do I do
C) How do I do it
D) Physically doing it

1) Can you get in and out of plane on the ground with chute on? (PRACTICE) Many pilots take seat belt off and then chute and leave chute in airplane seat (typically a thin back pack type). You can do that but practice getting in and out with chute on time to time. Also practice pulling your head-set off or and doing dry runs. Also learn how to put it on properly and learn how to get out of it fast, like making quick releases from how you route straps in the buckles. There are quick releases you can buy, but it cost more. I had a Paraphernalia SOFTIE regular backpack (the shell) with a military 28' chute (C-9). It was good for 250 lbs and 180 mph (more than terminal velocity). This was more chute than needed but got a good price on it. The Para-Phernalia, Inc Mini-Softie or Micro-Softie is a good choice with 24' chute... This is thinner, lighter than my rig. The prices have are not cheap. Expect to pay north of $2000.

2) How high do you need to be. If plane is going straight down at 200 mph at the ground and you depart plane, you will need thousands of feet AGL. If you are level or slightly climbing upright at 1000 feet AGL you can get out and survive. It is the arch of trajectory. The FAR's specify max time for a chute to fully deploy is 3 seconds which is 300-400 feet if you are starting at zero vertical velocity. However practically if we are free fall speed already, we are talking 600-1200 feet. So if you lose an engine at take off and not at pattern altitude level...a jump = bad things. With that said see #3 next...

3) Do you stabilize and then pull D Ring? No get out and pull. You are not a sky diver, no time to "stabilize". Jump and pull. Do it. Don't delay.

4) Practice with ground simulation pulling D-ring with BOTH hands together... You never know you may break an arm. When I had my chute repacked they let me pull the handle and pop the drone chute. A spring launches it out the back. The D-ring is under velcro flap btw.

5) There is little to no steering with emergency chute, but you should know where the WINDS are coming from and turn into the wind ideally. (Forget a sport parachute, that takes a lot of training, practice and signoff... it is not for amateur).

6) Land feet together knees bent... and roll. You will be coming down at a pretty good clip with a small emergency chute.... it's like jumping off the roof of full sized SUV or truck...

7) If you don't have quick release chute harness there is a way to route the straps through the buckles so you can pull on the end and release them, so if you get on the ground and dragged by winds you can get out of chute.

8) Have your cell phone or SPOT on your person and secured (strapped to your body or Velcro closed pocket). You may end up hurt, in a tree. You need to alert people where to come get you.

9) Don't keep your chute in plane or hanger. Put it in a hard sided suit case and inside the climate controlled house... Get it replaced as required by FAR's although some go longer.... you be the judge. It's yhour bacon.

Just be aware.... and give it some pre-thought and then go through practice drills often... Also remember you can't legally do dual aerobatics unless you both have a chute (with exceptions). Solo you do not need a chute.
 
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1) Can you get in and out of plane on the ground with chute on? (PRACTICE) Many pilots take seat belt off and then chute and leave chute in airplane seat (typically a thin back pack type). You can do that but practice getting in and out with chute on time to time. Also practice pulling your head-set off or and doing dry runs.

...

In all the glider training I did it was always stressed never to do this.

In an emergency situation you might simply follow old habits and release both your seat belt and your parachute harness as if you were simply stepping out of the plane on the ground. :eek:

Unfortunately it has been reported to happen.

Put up with the awkwardness and put the parachute on/off outside the plane every time. Make it a habit.
 
If you plan to use pull pins on the canopy, make sure they stay lubed and free. When I needed to remove my canopy during the build I found the rollers stuck in the frame and had to remove the tracks to get them free. Probably worthwhile to pull and relube every annual.
 
In all the glider training I did it was always stressed never to do this.

In an emergency situation you might simply follow old habits and release both your seat belt and your parachute harness as if you were simply stepping out of the plane on the ground. :eek:.
That would be embarrassing, well for only a short while. :eek:

Put up with the awkwardness and put the parachute on/off outside the plane every time. Make it a habit.
Good advice. I add treat your chute like gold... DO NOT LEAVE IT sitting in the plane or hanger all the time like a pile of dirty laundry. I had a hard suite case I kept my chute in when not in use. It should be kept clean of dirt and dust, dry and out of direct sunlight (as much as possible). Keeping it in environmentally controlled storage (your house) is also recommended. They are not delicate, but they can last a life time if taken care of.
 
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Wear your parachute

Here's a reasonably famous story of a parachute close call:
http://www.glidingcaboolture.org.au/what_went_wrong.htm

The pilot involved was originally going to go flying without the 'chute. The only reason he put it on is because it was already sitting in the cockpit when he reached it, and it was more trouble than it was worth to carry it somewhere else instead of just buckling-in.

(He survived virtually unscathed. The aircraft suffered a broken tailboom and a broken wing, but was repaired. Decades later, everyone in the Australian gliding fraternity knows what you're talking about if you refer to "That Cirrus.")


- mark
 
Here's a reasonably famous story of a parachute close call:
http://www.glidingcaboolture.org.au/what_went_wrong.htm

The pilot involved was originally going to go flying without the 'chute. The only reason he put it on is because it was already sitting in the cockpit when he reached it, and it was more trouble than it was worth to carry it somewhere else instead of just buckling-in.

(He survived virtually unscathed. The aircraft suffered a broken tailboom and a broken wing, but was repaired. Decades later, everyone in the Australian gliding fraternity knows what you're talking about if you refer to "That Cirrus.")


- mark

The accident report shows it was helped along by the all-flying tail of the Cirrus and early Mini-Nimbus. :)

My Mini-Nimbus lacked stability, especially at high speeds - it was fixed when I did the UK-required modification and added an anti-servo tab to the all-flying tail. The difference was night and day.
 
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Jettison of the aircraft...

The question has arisen as to whether or not it is possible to open the canopy while in flight. Specifically, can the slider on a RV6A be slid open while in flight in order to bail out? Has anyone had a slider open on them accidentally? Has anyone bailed out of a RV?
This all has to do with aerobatics and whether or not it's possible to bail out...I mean we all have parachutes-right? :)

Short answer (having attempted opening it inflight as low as 60 KIAS) NO. The slider canopy could be easily modified to jettison.
I don't know of any successful RV bailouts and I've been around these airplanes since 1985. There have been however, several fatalities after loss of control, aft CG spin into terra firma, jammed flight controls, structural failure, inflight fire, mid air collision, and CFIT.

Having sat on an ejection seat equipped Jet for most of my adult life, extricating yourself isn't the most difficult part, trust me. It's making the decision to exit the aircraft that's difficult.
It cost two of my close friends their lives.

Bottom line if you're not accustomed to setting a minimum maneuver altitude (hard deck if you will) and adhering to it, practice doing it. The FAA says 1500' AGL minimum.https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/91.303 However, extricating yourself from an RV after departing controlled flight or catastrophic structural failure will take more than 1500 feet IMHO. 3000' AGL. is a much more realistic number.
If you like aerobatics but have never worn a chute or jumped, maybe a trip to a nearby drop zone for a demo tandem jump will give you an appreciation. Either way, parachute use with training could save your life if so needed. Whether you wear one or not is a personal decision you have to make based on your own abilities.
Personally, I feel the BRS has a much higher percentage of saves, but that's another subject for another thread.

Practice makes perfect, have a plan and stick to it...

V/R
Smokey

Good Aerobatic bailout story https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb....ev_id=20001208X07242&ntsbno=SEA97FA037&akey=1
 
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...

Having sat on an ejection seat equipped Jet for most of my adult life, extricating yourself isn't the most difficult part, trust me. It's making the decision to exit the aircraft that's difficult.
It cost two of my close friends their lives.

.......
Smokey

This goes along with something several experienced glider pilots told me, and goes along with the fact that almost all glider pilots wear parachutes.

Always have full hull insurance on your plane.

You do not even want a passing thought of $$$ to be in your head when making the bail out decision Smokey is mentioning.
 
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wmaking the decision to exit the aircraft that's difficult.
It cost two of my close friends their lives.
Practice makes perfect, have a plan and stick to it...

Good advice and goes along with the seminar Allan Silver gives, emergency parachute use for sport pilots, if/when to get out is #1 decision.

I notice some videos on youtube of military training on bailouts... The WWII ones are funny. These are suggested for entertainment and time wasting, BUT there are some timeless pearls of wisdom from these trainning films that apply to us.

Bailing Out 1949 US Navy Pilot Training Film; Animated Cartoon (vintage) Start watching at 4:07 if you want to save time there is some good advice here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocJGQADMx30

Aircraft Ejection Decisions: "A Second Too Late" 1981 Pilot Training Film (modern) (This talks of ejection envelope, but moreover decision making. We should have this "envelope" to bail in mind. Like don't bailout when low and slow, takeoff or final approach (less than 1000 agl). Bailout might be ill advise. Level in the pattern at 1000 agl, bailout may be successful. Important know when you will or want to eject and stick to it.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P7B9TuvYUk

Interesting (maybe stupid), somewhere in Dubi a tandem glider intentionally ejects the back seat passenger with square sport chute. The video starts with back seat guy taking selfie with GoPro. The canopy is already off. Start video at 3:00 to watch the ejection about 5 seconds later. The perspective from the ejected back seater is interesting. It starts with glider doing aerobatics. The maneuver before he bails/ejection is a dive, pull up with a push.
Fabien Duperrier Ejected Glider
https://youtu.be/fPT2tJab3C8

This military traning video on ejection seat safety from 1961 is dark and has echos of the movie "Sixth Sense". It has no relevance to sport flying in RV's, except keep our emergency gear in good condtion and check it. Although I am laughing thinking of some experimental aircraft builder putting an automotive air bag under the seat.... that would LAUNCH you out the plane in a hurry. Make sure canopy is open. Ha ha.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o7KzoMYAuU
 
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Bailing Out

Great responses from everyone. I have watched some of the videos and was particularly impressed by the glider pilot "ejection". My bird is in the paint shop and getting a propeller overhaul so this would be a good opportunity to get my initial parachuting experience. I also will pursue the idea of changing the bolts with quick release pins in order to jettison the canopy.
 
Not if we are solo...

I would be more concerned with a typical GA pilots ability (or lack thereof) to stabilize in freefall and deploy said chute.

My thoughts too. I had a harness/container loosen up on me so bad, I wound up falling rear first, practically in fetal position, trying to grab the drouge. Never did find that thing before finally saying "screw it!" and deploying the reserve. Pretty dang scary for someone with less than 10 jumps.
 
The only time you'd bail out of a plane would be the loss of a control surface or the wing itself - if the aircraft is in tact you'd fly it to some type of landing.

Now, if you loose a control surface, you can imagine that the aircraft is spinning and/or rolling violently - and descending. Given the time to assess the situation, remove the belt buckle, open the canopy and attempt to get out under 6,8,10 12g...well, you just hit the ground.

IMHO, you are not getting out of an RV6 that requires you to bailout.
 
The only time you'd bail out of a plane would be the loss of a control surface or the wing itself - if the aircraft is in tact you'd fly it to some type of landing.

Now, if you loose a control surface, you can imagine that the aircraft is spinning and/or rolling violently - and descending. Given the time to assess the situation, remove the belt buckle, open the canopy and attempt to get out under 6,8,10 12g...well, you just hit the ground.

IMHO, you are not getting out of an RV6 that requires you to bail out.

You don't have a very good imagination... There is a sad case of a RV-8 about 19 years ago in the Oregon, massive fire, piloted try to descend, bailed out.... He did not have a chute. He decided he rather fall to death then burn to death. Autopsy found smoke damage in his lungs.

Location: LAFAYETTE, OR
Accident Number: SEA99FA113
Date & Time: 07/10/1999, 1520 PDT
Registration: N41VA
Aircraft: Alexander VAN'S RV-8
Aircraft Damage Destroyed
Injuries: 1 Fatal

There was another one but in Lancair... Prop separated and oil went all over the wind screen and canopy, and he could not see. He was able to control the plane but the off field landing, he perished.

Location:Ooltewah, TN
Accident Number: ERA14FA421
Date & Time: 09/03/2014, 1522 EDT
Registration: N541EM
Aircraft: KLAAS DEVELOPMENT INC LANCAIR IV P
Defining Event: Part(s) separation from AC
Injuries: 1 Fatal
Flight Conducted Under: Part 91: General Aviation - Business

Your other conjecture that successful bail outs are not practical or possible because of lack of time or high G forces is just made up. There have been 100's of successful bail outs in GA planes, in all kinds of airplanes and gliders. There are 100's of accidents where a chute would have saved the day. As I pointed out you can bail out as low as 1000 feet and survive (see base jumpers).

At 9G or 12G, an airplane will disintegrate; once that happens you and the bits of airplane are 1G ballistic object at terminal velocity or less. There was a case where a wing folded up and down onto cockpit with tragic results. However it takes only takes 3 seconds for the chute to deploy. Even if you were a rock, it takes 1500 feet and 12 seconds to reach terminal velocity. From 3000 feet you have time. I'm not going to argue that you could be "out of the envelope" to bail out, like right after takeoff or low on final. However there are many scenarios where bail out can save a pilots (and passengers) life. I remind you aerobatics with two people requires parachutes, unless for training (with CFI).

Loss of power (mechanical, fuel) would be a great reason to jump. Why make a dubious off field forced landing over rugged terrain or congested area with no suitable landing. Unfortunately when folks lose power they end up stalling and spinning in. Even if you have to crash into the side of a building do it at min speed with full flaps UNDER CONTROL. People will try and land on a freeway and snag a power line or street light or sign and parish... I am sure you have superior pilot skill and will make a perfect emergency landing and leap tall buildings every time, but mere mortals can see a need for a parachute.

Of course there is Cirrus with chutes on the airframe. They have been used when pilots saved their life as well as their passengers. You are welcome to your contrarian opinion, but you are not welcome to your own facts... There are many reasons to bail out... Is it COMMON? Thankfully no, flying is fairly safe. However we have insurance on our house, car and plane and don't expect to ever make a claim or collect money. You have a chute and don't expect to use it. However if you need it, it's worth it. I could see a non-instrument rated pilot flying from VMC to IMC bailing out... Of course one should never get into that situation.

Although rare, it has happened many times, pilot being accidentally ejected from airplane. It is rare but there have been cases of seat belts failing, not being secure or unknown, resulting in pilot being ejected from plane. One was in an RV, another in a Mustang II (like a RV-6) and a third, in a Zenair recently in TN. If you are going loop-de-loop I suggest a chute. I always have one when doing aerobatics.

Some examples of bail outs (low to the ground)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VINgXlF2R0Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPv7aW64i40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLTgdiBYfKA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgfG2DfPB6I
 
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