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  #21  
Old 12-08-2017, 05:20 PM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aircraft Specialty View Post
Scott,

That’s awesome news to hear. It appears that Vans has come to the conclusion that a thermostat is a very worthwhile addition to the rotax engines in cold weather climates.

We have been selling a complete thermostat install kit since March, 2014 for the 912ULS rv-12 Aircraft. Unfortunately SLSA builders have repeatedly been told that there is no data to support installing a thermostat. Since Vans now appears on board with the idea of the Thermostasis, let’s work together to make it available for SLSA customers. We are already utilizing the same thermostat and have figured out the hose routing and lengths to fit into the cowl well. Also, there is detailed documentation for the installation.

It would be a great way to allow all the SLSA owners in cold climates the option of installing a thermostat.

Steve
The airplane it is on is an E-LSA (experimental) RV-12, because we have a lot more latitude in regards to general testing than with an S-LSA
It is being evaluated so it is not yet a sure thing for the future but a good possibility, but it if it happens for S-LSA, it will still be a while.

Our experience is that it does help with reducing warm-up time but it doesn't have a huge influence on elevating in-flight temps.

Based on Johns comments, maybe we need to add a bit more instrumentation to see what the oil temps are doing.

If it does eventually get approved as an option we will probably have a kit of our own that we will offer.
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RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
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  #22  
Old 12-08-2017, 07:03 PM
JBPILOT JBPILOT is offline
 
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Location: Jesup, Iowa
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Default Scott - -

Thanks for being involved. I can tell you for sure that even in 4 degree F temps, the oil gets up to therm value as indicated on the display before closing some and then blending the return oil and causing the indicated temp to fall some.

It does not offer any help in warm weather other than to warm it up faster. Once the therm is closed, you get full flow thru the cooler. I don't feel it hurts even in hot weather, but well worth the cost for quick warm ups at any temps.

If you have installed one, then watch the temp very closely on take off and climb out. Keep watching until it starts to close and then it will stabilize at lower various temps depending on demand and outside air temps.
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Flying RV-12 - Serial #120036
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  #23  
Old 12-08-2017, 10:54 PM
Aircraft Specialty Aircraft Specialty is offline
 
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Location: Oconomowoc, WI
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Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002 View Post
Our experience is that it does help with reducing warm-up time but it doesn't have a huge influence on elevating in-flight temps.
Scott,

That's a very interesting data point and very different than the data we have seen from approximately 50-60 Thermostasis installations.

It probably doesn't make much sense to install a Thermostasis kit ONLY to reduce warm up times. If that is what you are achieving with your installation, I definitely see the reason why Van's may or may not see the benefit to offering a kit.

However, here is some actual real world data that we have from our installation package. Some of this data is from the 190 degree unit, and some from the 205 degree unit. Almost all the kits we have sent out have been for the 190 degree unit. A few customers had already purchased the 205 unit on their own, so we just built the hoses for them. We have received lots of feedback regarding the unit and it all is very similar to the data shown below.

ATMOSPHERIC CONDITIONS

Temperature -2 Celsius on ground, -13 Celsius in flight

Warmup time on ground from 60 to 122 degrees

Without Thermostasis = 11 minutes
With Thermostasis = 6 minutes


Inflight Temperatures

Without Thermostasis temperature drop to 122 degrees in long reduced power descent
With Thermostasis temperature around 200 degrees in long reduced power descent


Cruise temperatures with thermostasis at -13 Celsius were in the 180-190 degree range."

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  #24  
Old 12-09-2017, 01:26 AM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aircraft Specialty View Post

Inflight Temperatures

Without Thermostasis temperature drop to 122 degrees in long reduced power descent
With Thermostasis temperature around 200 degrees in long reduced power descent


Cruise temperatures with thermostasis at -13 Celsius were in the 180-190 degree range."

Any idea why this doesn't jive with the experience John is having?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBPILOT View Post
Was about 4 degrees F at Alt today. I have Thermostasis. Oil temp at engine was 153 degrees on display. NO PROBLEM. Oil in tank is between 195 - 205 degrees. Very cold oil from cooler was blending with warm oil thru Therm, and 153 degrees was going back to engine.

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  #25  
Old 12-09-2017, 06:59 AM
JBPILOT JBPILOT is offline
 
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Default Scott - -

Power demand is an important factor. Notice I was not demanding much power, so less warm oil was involved with the blending on return, and oil going even slower thru the cooler makes the blend even cooler. If I run the engine harder, the return oil does warm up more on return to engine.
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  #26  
Old 12-09-2017, 10:45 AM
Mich48041 Mich48041 is offline
 
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John, I suggest that you cover up the top 1.5" or 2" of the oil cooler with duct tape as an experiment to see what affect that has on oil temperature in very cold weather. I suspect that the temp will go up to the thermostat set point. If the temperature goes up higher than the thermostat set point, then too much of the oil cooler is covered up.
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  #27  
Old 12-09-2017, 11:06 AM
JBPILOT JBPILOT is offline
 
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Default Joe - -

No reason to. Oil in the tank is approx. therm value, and that is all that is important. Agree, your test could warm up the oil at then engine, but it is just not important.
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  #28  
Old 12-09-2017, 11:08 AM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by JBPILOT View Post
Power demand is an important factor. Notice I was not demanding much power, so less warm oil was involved with the blending on return, and oil going even slower thru the cooler makes the blend even cooler. If I run the engine harder, the return oil does warm up more on return to engine.
That would make sense but look at the data chart.
It shows oil temp at 200 in a power off decent.... that would be a low power demand situation.....
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  #29  
Old 12-09-2017, 11:41 AM
JBPILOT JBPILOT is offline
 
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Default Scott - -

If throttle is greatly reduced in cold, very cold, weather, the temps will back back down until the therm opens up and no oil goes thru the cooler. In moderate or warm weather, it will not change as much. You have to understand all the oil goes thru the therm one direction or the other, or a blend going back to engine. Once the cooler oil is blended in, the temps will lower going back to the engine.

I would like to see you add a temporary temp sender from the tank. With the Thermostasis, I think you will see the tank temp remain fairly constant. In hot weather, it will just climb due to cooler not being able to handle it.
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Last edited by JBPILOT : 12-09-2017 at 05:28 PM. Reason: Word change
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