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Tip: Easy way to bleed aircraft brakes

IowaRV9Dreamer

Well Known Member
Yesterday I had to bleed the brakes on my Skipper... they are standard 6" Cleveland brakes that are (I think) very similar to RV brakes. The setup is plumbed identically, with a single reservoir feeding the copilot master cylinders and then the pilot master cylinders.

My A&P gave me this tip: go to your local aviation / farm supply store and buy three things:
  • An old fashioned pump oiler - big with a heavy base that won't tip over
  • Some clear tubing that tightly fits both the end of the bleeder screw and the pump oiler
  • The biggest horse syringe they have (no needle)
Total cost was under $25.

Cut a length of tubing and safety wire it on the end of the oiler. Make this tight... it will be under some pressure.

Put some more tubing on the end of the syringe.

Fill the oiler with fluid.... pump the air out of the clear tubing.

Hook it to the bleeder screw - open the screw and start pumping.


As you are pumping, have somone tap/vibrate the master cylinders.. first the one closest to the wheel and then the opposite side. For example, if you are working on the left wheel, have your helper tap the pilot left brake and then the copilot left brake. The tapping helps unstuck any air bubbles in the master cylinders.

Pump about 30 or 40 strokes while your assisant taps each cylinder. You will be forcing new fluid up from the bottom and the old fluid and air bubbles will be pumped into the reservoir. Use the horse syringe to remove excess fluid from the reservoir before it overflows. When you are tired of pumping, tighten the bleeder screw, remove the clear tubing, and install the bleeder cover. Done! Move on to the other wheel.

This procedure worked for me - rock solid brakes on the first try with no spilled fluid. It was very easy.

Hope this helps someone.
 
Fly that Skipper North!

Hi Dave,

We gotta get together for a -9A ride before the snow flies. Maybe a picnic at Rushford? We could bring the daughters.
 
It works everytime! I use an airpressure setup to force brake fluid up. Takes all of 10 mins to bleed one side.
 
Is there some other way to bleed the brakes? Ive always seen it done this way and have never seen it done any other.
 
Is there some other way to bleed the brakes? Ive always seen it done this way and have never seen it done any other.

Yep, like a car, you can fill up the reservoir and then with two people, pump pump pump, hold the pedal down, and open the bleeder, close the bleeder, pump pump pump, hold, open, close.... you get the picture.

Bleeding up is the quick/easy way to go, and works on about 80% of airplanes. I've got both an oiler and a pressure pot <--- (Which is even more awesome).

Also when using this method to re-bleed brakes, it's usually easiest to completely drain out the line on the side you are bleeding, otherwise you could easily overfill the reservoir and make a mess on the firewall :)
 
Is there some other way to bleed the brakes? Ive always seen it done this way and have never seen it done any other.

I can't tell you the number of hours I spent trying to bleed brakes like a car. :mad:
 
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Won't work

Bleeding the brakes like a car will never result in a perfect bleed because unlike a car the bleeder valve is on the bottom of the brake cylinder. Air rises to the top of the brake cylinder and you can't get it out by opening a valve on the bottom. Go look at your car. The bleeder valve will be on top unless it requires a pressure bleed like your airplane. I learned that from race cars.
 
That way worked great for me as well. I used a smaller oil can and didn't safety wire the ends of the hose. I used the same hose I used on the static lines. I had one little bubble come out of the oil can, I just opened the line at the wheel and let it out. Make sure you pump oil through the line before hooking to the brake. I had a person watch my lines in the plane, vans original, until the air was all gone. Took all of 5 minutes and had great brakes when done.
 
I use the same setup...

But never have anyone around to watch for reservoir overflow.
I pump for a while and then look at the reservoir .
Pump for a while more and then it always overflows.:(

I always end up cleaning the firewall.

By the way I use a spare West system resin pump to remove excess fluid from the reservoir, before I start.

Kent
 
Tip Tip

Unscrew the cap to the reservoir and replace with a 1/4" push in air line fitting like you use for the pitot lines. Run clear 1/4" tubing down into a container. You can easily see when the reservoir is full . Disconnect the tubing and the excess fliud will run into the container.
 
But never have anyone around to watch for reservoir overflow.
I pump for a while and then look at the reservoir .
Pump for a while more and then it always overflows.:(

I always end up cleaning the firewall.

By the way I use a spare West system resin pump to remove excess fluid from the reservoir, before I start.

Kent

I'm not sure what type reservoir you have but mine has a threaded fitting on top. I just got a piece of flexible brake line with the appropriate fitting and screwed it into the reservoir. Then I put the other end of the tube in a cup. That way I can push all the fluid I need to without dumping it on the firewall.
 
Jeff, Charlie, thanks for the tip.

Now why didn't I think of that?:eek:

I guess that it is the onset of "Old timers disease".:eek:

Kent
 
Final outcome

I have dual brakes set up as per Vans plans. I filled the system from the bottom then when that failed to eliminate bubbles I bled them like a car. That failed also. I suspect that the fluid does not move well between the pilot and co-pilot pedals. There can be a spec of an air bubble there, then when you press the pilots brakes it get stretched into a bigger bubble. My solution was to remove the lines at the pilots pedals and bleed them at that point. Seems to have finally worked!
 
You gotta pump fast.

Sorry, I'm not sure what you're referring to. Is that a tongue in cheek comment or a technique?

I have dual brakes set up as per Vans plans. I filled the system from the bottom then when that failed to eliminate bubbles I bled them like a car. That failed also. I suspect that the fluid does not move well between the pilot and co-pilot pedals. There can be a spec of an air bubble there, then when you press the pilots brakes it get stretched into a bigger bubble. My solution was to remove the lines at the pilots pedals and bleed them at that point. Seems to have finally worked!

I used the same technique and still have some air bubbles between the pilot and co-pilot pedals. Do you you just disconnect the lines at the elbow and let it drip or add some pressure?

Thanks,

Mike
 
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my system

I disconnect the line that comes from from the copilot pedal at the pilot pedal. I then press the copilot brakes to force the bubble out. Without letting off the pressure on the pedal I use my other hand to re-connect the hose. I even pump a little more as I reconnect just so there would not be a bubble right at the joint. I keep a rag under my work to catch any drips. Seems to have actually worked!!!
 
Can someone define for me what "good" brakes are? Since new mine have always felt weak. I couldn't lock up my wheels no matter how hard I pressed on the pedals. With considerable force I can only slow down the plane and fear that in an emergency I'd be in trouble. I've bled the brakes several times without any air in the system. When speaking to Vans they said that the brakes are purposefully "weak" so as not to allow taildraggers to pitch over on their noses. I have a trigear. Suggestions?

Garry Stout
 
Any air will negatively affect brakes!!

Can someone define for me what "good" brakes are? Since new mine have always felt weak. I couldn't lock up my wheels no matter how hard I pressed on the pedals. With considerable force I can only slow down the plane and fear that in an emergency I'd be in trouble. I've bled the brakes several times without any air in the system. When speaking to Vans they said that the brakes are purposefully "weak" so as not to allow taildraggers to pitch over on their noses. I have a trigear. Suggestions?
Garry Stout

The brakes should lock the wheels w/o a zillion pounds of foot pressure.

Make sure you have adequate pedal travel.

Make sure than none of the flex lines are weak and expanding with pedal pressure. In other words, have a friend press the pedals whilst you look at the flex lines. Conversely, make sure none of the alum lines are kinked.

Bleed the brakes (again) like the first post suggests. You will note he suggested the use of a clear line on the pump so that you can SEE air bubbles in the clear line before they're introduced. Obviously, don't allow ANY air to enter the system. If you see a bubble in the clear line, close the nipple on the caliper, disconnect the feed line at the caliper nipple to allow the air to escape, then attach the line again.

Safety the wire at the pump to prevent leaks and make sure the pump does not have any old motor oil in it. I bought a new oil can to preclude the presence of old oil and I drain it after use and place it in a plastic bag to keep it clean.

If you have any air left in the system, you are squeezing air bubbles against fluid. That will have two effects. Lousy brakes and calipers that will drag the shoes even though you are not pressing the pedals.

Please don't ask me how I know the brakes will drag.

Another post said to capture the fluid coming out of the reservoir using a nipple with a threaded end, & tubing that runs into a bottle. Make sure the bottle is clean as well as the nipple and the line.

If you use the brake fluid again, run it thru a paint filter to remove any particles picked up in the system.

Please don't fly until you get the brakes working properly. Please don't risk years of work. If necessary, remove all of the cylinders and check inside for debris left over from the build. Send me a # if you want to discuss.

Be safe.
 
THANKS!!

Great tip! I'll use it for sure when the time comes!

Thanks for taking the time to post it.
 
Thanks Mr. Nomad! I'll try your inspection and technique this Tuesday when I go out to the hanger. I appreciate everyone's advice and assistance.

Garry Stout
 
I mounted my master cyl's upside down (like piper) and placed the bleeder on the top of the slave cyl. (like piper).

To bleed the brakes, I connect a clear line to the slave cyl, run it up to the reservoir where I can see it, and pump the break about 6 to 10 times. Then I switch sides. When done, I disconnect the line and plug each end and put it away.

All is done in about 10 minutes without any mess.
 
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Easy Pump

This is probably not new but here is what I set up for brake bleeding on my RV-10.
I had previously used the small oiler pump on my -8 and although successful and still solid braking action after more than 400 hrs, I remember that the little oil can leaked oil with every pump stroke and half the oil spilled on the floor.
I mounted a schrader valve and a bulkhead fitting in the lid of the brake fluid container.
1/8th copper line extended to the bottom of the can. 1/8th copper line out and hose attached with needle valve between. With the hose attached to the bleeder valve I applied 20 pounds of pressure to the oil can and the brakes filled up in a few minutes.
I also attached a fitting to the reservoir and a hose leading to a clear container so I could observe the overflow. No mess and solid brakes.
IMG_0904.JPG


IMG_0899.JPG


IMG_0903.JPG
 
Should have no problem using about 3 to 5 psi. Looks like the can was not happy about 20 psi. Plus you might get hurt......... Plus the kid that takes s swig of Ruby Red!!!
 
You may bleed your brakes as you whish.
I found that if you bleed the brakes with not enough pressure (speed)
the bubbles in the crossover high points in the system will tend to stay in place. If you push oil up the line and rapidly advance the flow, the fluid will push a bubble down hill before it has a chance to gurgle back to the top.
That oil can was not happy but I was and the cranberry juice does look tasty, I think I'll save it for the kids.
 
Ernst's Brake bleeding system

Ernst,

Thanks for the explanation why 20 lbs was required. It's a great idea but I was also worried whether the can could withstand 20 lbs of pressure.
 
There's even a better way

Well, at least there's a different way that is pretty easy and leaves you with no mess, AND one person can do it without running around like your hair's on fire (if you have any left!). First, you buy one of these from eBay or AC$.
06-00120.jpg


Things to do before first bleed to get it set up properly:
1. Drill hole in top of plastic bottle so hose can be inserted into the lid and down into the fluid
2. Get an extra length of hose to run from your brake reservoir to the top of the plastic bottle
3. You'll need a fitting that you can screw into the top of your brake reservoir and then connect a hose to it. I found plastic fittings at the auto parts store. Look for brake bleeding kits.
4. You need a small piece of safety wire to secure the hose to the bleeder nipple.

Prior to bleeding the system, you need to perform the following steps:
5. Fill the brake reservoir to the very top.
6. Close the valve on the gizmo above. It's a black handled ball valve.
7. Fill the plastic bottle about half full of fluid. Secure the cap on the plastic bottle.
8. Connect up the fitting and hose from the brake reservoir to the hole in the lid of the plastic bottle and make sure the end of the hose is sitting down in the fluid so no air can enter.
9. Open the valve and squeeze the bulb until fluid displaces the air in the lower tube out to the very end. Close the valve.
10. Connect the hose up to the bleeder valve and secure it with a small clamp or safety wire.
11. Hang the bleeder rig so the top of the bottle is below the level of the top of your brake reservoir.

To bleed the system, perform the following steps:
12. Open the bleeder valve while the hose remains attached.
13. Open the ball valve and pressurize the system with bulb. Continue to do this until fluid pushes up through the brake reservoir and flows into the plastic container via the overflow tube. This will remove the last of the air from the bleeding system.

You now have a closed system where air can exit via the plastic container but air cannot enter the system.
14. Pump the brakes a couple of times until there no more air bubbles in any of the hoses.
15. Close the ball valve.
16. Close the bleeder nipple
17. Disconnect the overflow hose from the brake reservoir and let the fluid in the hose drain into the plastic bottle. Remove the hose and set it aside.
18. Remove the hose from the bleeder nipple and quickly place it into the hole in the cap where the overflow hose was previously.
19. Pump the fluid from the plactic bottle back into your brake fluid container or discard.

I know the steps sound a little anal, but you have to do things in the right sequence to get the right results. Bleeding the lines and filling the reservoir all help in keeping extra air from entering the system.
 
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Pressure system on the cheap,...

Pressure pump from the tractor suppy house $4.95, 1/4 " hose, 1/8 NPT to 1/4' hose fitting, empty water bottle.

Assemble and secure hose connections with safety wire. Connect,.. pump a couple of times,.. crack bleeder fitting,.. lock sprayer valve,.. get a cold beer and watch it work.




Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Bill S
7a almost there
 
Why not a quick connect instead of the bleeder valve

I filled my brake circuit yesterday and I am just wondering what is the interest of having this bleeder valve as it is on the brake calliper. As the bleeder is on the bottom of the brake circuit, it can only be used for filling the circuit. I can imagine that such bleeder valve could be useful on top of the circuit somewhere to bleed it, but where it is located, it is just a mess to connect and keep tight a flexible hose. I have followed the step by step method (and tools) suggested by F1 Rocket in this thread (thanks for this) and made the tightening of the flexible hose with some safety wire. This is not totally efficient. Did any of you replaced the bleeder valve by a quick connect valve? If yes, which type of quick connect did you use. Thanks in advance for your answer.
 
Jeff is correct, this is the way to do it. One person can bleed the brakes perfectly in 10 or 15 minutes. A $10 bug sprayer from Home Depot will work great on the supply side and a very small plastic fuel tank works great for the reservoir and the storage container.

Pat


Unscrew the cap to the reservoir and replace with a 1/4" push in air line fitting like you use for the pitot lines. Run clear 1/4" tubing down into a container. You can easily see when the reservoir is full . Disconnect the tubing and the excess fliud will run into the container.
 
When bleeding the first side of the brakes, left or right, do you need to keep pumping in fluid until the reservoir is full? Or do you only need to pump in enough so that some fluid makes it in to the reservoir and then wait to pump to a full reservoir when you do the remaining side of the brakes? Once done, do you need to leave any space in the reservoir for any expansion or fill it all the way to the vent?
 
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When bleeding the first side of the brakes, left or right, do you need to keep pumping in fluid until the reservoir is full? Or do you only need to pump in enough so that some fluid makes it in to the reservoir and then wait to pump to a full reservoir when you do the remaining side of the brakes? Once done, do you need to leave any space in the reservoir for any expansion or fill it all the way to the vent?


I have always pumped till the reservoir was full and then changed sides and repeated the process. I also leave the reservoir full.

Pat
 
Well, at least there's a different way that is pretty easy and leaves you with no mess, AND one person can do it without running around like your hair's on fire (if you have any left!). First, you buy one of these from eBay or AC$.
06-00120.jpg


Things to do before first bleed to get it set up properly:
1. Drill hole in top of plastic bottle so hose can be inserted into the lid and down into the fluid
2. Get an extra length of hose to run from your brake reservoir to the top of the plastic bottle
3. You'll need a fitting that you can screw into the top of your brake reservoir and then connect a hose to it. I found plastic fittings at the auto parts store. Look for brake bleeding kits.
4. You need a small piece of safety wire to secure the hose to the bleeder nipple.

Prior to bleeding the system, you need to perform the following steps:
5. Fill the brake reservoir to the very top.
6. Close the valve on the gizmo above. It's a black handled ball valve.
7. Fill the plastic bottle about half full of fluid. Secure the cap on the plastic bottle.
8. Connect up the fitting and hose from the brake reservoir to the hole in the lid of the plastic bottle and make sure the end of the hose is sitting down in the fluid so no air can enter.
9. Open the valve and squeeze the bulb until fluid displaces the air in the lower tube out to the very end. Close the valve.
10. Connect the hose up to the bleeder valve and secure it with a small clamp or safety wire.
11. Hang the bleeder rig so the top of the bottle is below the level of the top of your brake reservoir.

To bleed the system, perform the following steps:
12. Open the bleeder valve while the hose remains attached.
13. Open the ball valve and pressurize the system with bulb. Continue to do this until fluid pushes up through the brake reservoir and flows into the plastic container via the overflow tube. This will remove the last of the air from the bleeding system.

You now have a closed system where air can exit via the plastic container but air cannot enter the system.
14. Pump the brakes a couple of times until there no more air bubbles in any of the hoses.
15. Close the ball valve.
16. Close the bleeder nipple
17. Disconnect the overflow hose from the brake reservoir and let the fluid in the hose drain into the plastic bottle. Remove the hose and set it aside.
18. Remove the hose from the bleeder nipple and quickly place it into the hole in the cap where the overflow hose was previously.
19. Pump the fluid from the plactic bottle back into your brake fluid container or discard.

I know the steps sound a little anal, but you have to do things in the right sequence to get the right results. Bleeding the lines and filling the reservoir all help in keeping extra air from entering the system.

Hahaha excellent, I came across this thread after having bled my brakes (almost) in a remarkably similar fashion to what is illustrated and described here just because it made sense to me - it's nice to have my ideas validated.

I say 'almost' because as described in one of the earlier posts after a successful bleeding of both left and right (on an RV-7A) I climbed in to pump the pedals a bit only to have a whole string of air bubbles manifesting in both overhead lines from left and right Pilot cylinders to the corresponding cylinders on the right. Do I have to reconnect my contraption and keep pushing fluid through from either side until the bubbles are all out or is there another way? Is it possible for there to be a leak to small for fluid to escape but enough to suck air in? It's just odd that after pushing almost 750ml through the system til not a single bubble was evident with one or two pumps it looks like almost a third of both overhead lines are full of air??

I also noticed that the left brake pedal is extremely stiff on either side whilst the right pedals are quite mushy - I have flown a few general aviation types, but for the Cessna 210 I don't remember the brakes being this stiff - it feels like I am pushing with my foot, a full 10 gallon drum on grass, there is a tiny bit of 'give' (about just under an inch of travel) but then it just sticks.:confused::confused:

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:):)
 
...I added a simple tap on the line from the hanging bottle to the bleed valve nipple which stopped waste from the valve or from the bottle - all hose and fittings are standard garden sprinkler system parts available at any hardware store (in SA at least)....

527381_10150692276100671_541030670_9999732_1459772881_n.jpg
 
Ok guys I need help on this one.
As per the my previous posts I worked out a system for bleeding the brakes and was quite chuffed at well it worked, when I left the workshop last night I had all pedals nice and stiff and not a bubble in sight. On returning this morning hoping to move on to the canopy and avionics installations I am horrified to see a whole bunch of air trapped again in the overhead lines (both left and right):(:(

I 'pumped' both pedals during the bleed process and repeated 3 times until every last bubble had been pushed out, I circulated a little more than a liter of hydro fluid in all and did a whole bunch of pumping after the last successful bleed and there was no air - what on earth could be going on and how do I fix it?:eek::confused:
 
I think I found the source of my problems....I think :eek:
I was never happy with the connection of the line from the bottle to the bleed valve, when opened properly the bleed valve leaks from the nipple and around the thread and to just push the tubing over the nipple wasn't stopping fluid from dripping out during the whole process. My 5th attempt at bleeding this morning revealed bubbles at the nipple at every pump of the bicycle pump.

What I have done now is to add silicone tubing (regular RC fuel tubing) to the mix, I slid it right over the opened nipple and the exposed thread and then tied it off with safety wire, I also ensured all my other joins were airtight - hold thumbs!:eek:
 
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This is probably not new but here is what I set up for brake bleeding on my RV-10.
I had previously used the small oiler pump on my -8 and although successful and still solid braking action after more than 400 hrs, I remember that the little oil can leaked oil with every pump stroke and half the oil spilled on the floor.
I mounted a schrader valve and a bulkhead fitting in the lid of the brake fluid container.
1/8th copper line extended to the bottom of the can. 1/8th copper line out and hose attached with needle valve between. With the hose attached to the bleeder valve I applied 20 pounds of pressure to the oil can and the brakes filled up in a few minutes.
I also attached a fitting to the reservoir and a hose leading to a clear container so I could observe the overflow. No mess and solid brakes.
IMG_0904.JPG

Just some perspective. If the top of the can is 4x8 inches and you put 20psi in it, the force trying to rip the top off is over 600lbs. The sides are much worse. Please be careful.
 
Needed to replace one of my stainless brake lines because the original was an inch or two too short, thus the line pulled on the fitting and caused a leak. Brakes are rather simple but scare me because if you mess anything up or contaminate the system you can get yourself into big trouble. Anyway, searching this forum gave me a few tips and I used those tips to replace the brake line and bleed my own brakes. I had read horror stories so I was a bit worried. All in all, it was a piece of cake. Nothing to it!!

I poured fresh Royco 780 into my Harbor Freight $4 oil can. Fitted a nice piece of tubing. (I didn't even need to safety wire it or anything, just a nice snug fit) I pumped fluid until there was no air in the line then fitted it to the bottom of my caliper. Opened the small bleeder valve and pumped away.
_DSC0675.JPG


I used Jeff's idea about a threaded push-to-fit fitting and some pitot tubing into the reservoir which I had drained before replacing the stainless steel hose. I stole Scott Card's trick of taping a Ziploc bad to the cowl to catch the overflow.
_DSC0674.JPG


This allows a one man operation. I could clearly see the fluid pouring into the bad and could also note the absence of any bubbles. Job complete. Education acquired. And most importantly, money saved!!
 
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here is my bleeder.

1. 4" PCV pipe length is up to you
2. flat pipe cap
3. male threaded coupler
4. screw on cap
5. tire valve stem or air coupler

glue the flat cap on the bottom
put the screw on coupler on top
drill the screw on cap for the valve stem or air coupler
drill for 1/8 pipe at bottom of pipe
screw 1/8 pipe valve in hole and hook clear tubing to valve
fill unit with fluid
screw cap on
pressurize
have at it.

nice part is with the pvc you do not have to worry about blowing up the container. it will take more pressure than you will ever put in it.

works well on cars to, it the only way i have ever been able to bleed a corvette.

bob burns
RV-4 N82RB
 
I am too cheap to make any of these expensive bleeders. I had a large syringe left over from my Proseal work that I had not used. I bought it at a medical supply for $3.50. Bought a short piece of lawnmower fuel tubing and connected to the syringe.
Pulled brake fluid into the syringe and pushed the air out, connected to the bleeder, loosened the bleeder and pushed. Too two syringes full and I was done. No air and a solid pedal.
 
Lots of great tips here. I was able to get my brakes filled today. I originally tried using the cheapo HF oil can. It just wasn't powerful enough to push the fluid up to the reservoir. I also tried a Mighty-vac to try to suck the fluid up to the reservoir. Again, it just didn't have enough suction. I ended up spending $13 for a 1 gallon pump sprayer and that worked! The Mighty-vac came with a bunch of different types of connectors to get the right tubing sizes to interconnect. It went so fast, I didn't think to take pictures!
 
I ended up spending $13 for a 1 gallon pump sprayer and that worked! ... It went so fast, I didn't think to take pictures!

I had the same good experience with a $9 garden sprayer from Lowes. A very easy process, but it sure helps to have an assistant.
 
Funny how these threads come up when I need to bleed a set of brakes. I have a pressure setup that I am going to modify with a regulator and a quick disconnect air fitting, and a return line from the reservoir. The idea is to set the regulator at a real low setting (1 or 2 psi) so that the line won't get blown off the brake bleeder fitting fitting but the system stays constantly pressurized so one can get inside the airplane and mechanically work any air bubbles out of the system by applying the brakes repeatedly.
 
Be careful

If it the first time you are bleeding the brakes, make sure ALL of the fittings are tightened up. Especially ones that might be hidden from view, like, say inside the gear towers......ask me how I know!

Cheers

Jim
 
If it the first time you are bleeding the brakes, make sure ALL of the fittings are tightened up. Especially ones that might be hidden from view, like, say inside the gear towers......ask me how I know!

I'll second that. :eek: Also, don't use E-Z turn to seal the brake fittings at the pedal cylinders. Unless of course, you want a second opportunity to practice brake bleeding. :)
 
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