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Nose wheel on grass failure inevitable?

Joby

Member
I just bought a beautiful RV 9A to use on my Farm strip which is 2000 feet long and very smooth. My bird has the Antisplat nose mod so I thought it would be fine. Yesterday I read a thread describing a nose gear failure on a ?very smooth grass strip? after a normal landing the gear tube bent above the antisplat brace at 20 mph. He said the nose raised then fell to the ground as the gear tube bent completely. It didn?t flip over but of course the prop struck the ground. This makes me wonder if a gear tube failure is inevitable after enough landings on grass. Could it be that the slight but constant wiggling that the upper noise gear tube receives from taxing on grass will cause it to harden over time leading to eventual failure?

If this is the case is there some deformity to inspect for that would warn of imminent failure?

Joby Wieser
 
grass

I live on a grass strip, and not the smoothest, and have hundreds of grass landings. I think there may be more to the story.
 
I agree as mentioned above. I believe most failures are a result of the Pilot using the nose gear as landing gear instead of taxi gear. I've always operated my tri-gear planes in the "soft field" mode and never had any problems.
 
NO, They are not inevitable!!!
The certified fleet has just as many nose gear issues as the RV fleet. Treat it right and you will be fine. There are a few modifications you can do to give yourself a wider margin of error. You already have the nose job. The wheel bearings/axel play a large role. If you have tapered bearings then they can lock-up when the thin axel bolt flexes. I would install a Matco axel. With those two modifications you should be fine.
 
Well,

I have 950 hours and 20 years on a grass strip that's called Hop-Along for more reasons than one, no modifications, not even the factory SB's except to replace the gear leg with the "new" taper 18 years ago. and no issues. I treat it with respect - like Infidel said, every op is a soft-field op.

The only damage I've ever had was from taxiing into a pothole on an unfamiliar grass strip and from trying too hard on a BFR to impress a CFI who wanted a short landing over an imaginary 50 foot tree at the threshold of a paved 7,001 foot runway. Both resulted in broken nosewheel pants & brackets, but neither hurt the gear itself.

At this point, I'm going to keep flying the ol' gal like I know how, and not worry with mods that add weight and cost to the plane (says the man whose Easy Exit bar from AntiSplat arrives in the mail next week :D )

My advice is to respect the relative frailty of the nose gear and baby it at all times, but without fear. Enjoy a great airplane.
 
They are certainly not inevitable!

I have approx 700hrs on a 6A and many, many landings on grass of all grades with no "nose wheel" accidents. Without intending to insult anyone (but comments on piloting ability are often taken as an insult), nose wheel related mishaps are usually due to poor handling. Land on the main wheels, hold the nose wheel off while possible and lower to the ground gently and under control, taxi at a moderate speed. This isn't a Cessna noseleg, but accidents are certainly not inevitable. Anti-splat should help, but gross mis-handling will break almost anything.

BTW the nose leg is a solid bar.

Pete
 
Look for Vlad

I just bought a beautiful RV 9A to use on my Farm strip which is 2000 feet long and very smooth. My bird has the Antisplat nose mod so I thought it would be fine. Yesterday I read a thread describing a nose gear failure on a ?very smooth grass strip? after a normal landing the gear tube bent above the antisplat brace at 20 mph. He said the nose raised then fell to the ground as the gear tube bent completely. It didn?t flip over but of course the prop struck the ground. This makes me wonder if a gear tube failure is inevitable after enough landings on grass. Could it be that the slight but constant wiggling that the upper noise gear tube receives from taxing on grass will cause it to harden over time leading to eventual failure?

If this is the case is there some deformity to inspect for that would warn of imminent failure?

Joby Wieser

Look for a thread titled ?Do you collect grass strips?. Vlad may well have been on every grass strip in America. He flys a 9A.
 
I live on a grass strip, and not the smoothest, and have hundreds of grass landings. I think there may be more to the story.

The only thing that can ever be said with any certainty regarding any accident report is that "there is always more to the story"
 
You will be alrite Joby. Just work on your landings you will develop a safe technique very fast.

Well, if you get carried away and befriend these types better get a roll of good duct tape. Helps to hold the nose wheel fairing together after you taxi over a rut. :D






 
Nose wheel

I agree with all of these folks. I've landed a RV6A on some ruff ground, just full aft stick for all taxi. We can talk some more and I will be happy to come look at your strip.
 
I suspect the reason for the digging in of the nose wheels has a lot to do with the 5/16" axle bolt bending and loading the bearing to seizure.
Early RV6A had a solid one inch axle through the wheel and this should prevent the axle bending and bearing seizure.
Perhaps that is why some owners report they have operated off some rough fields for many hours without trouble while some later RVA'shave flipped while taxiing. (Nothing to do with landing technique)
I think the Axle mod is more important than the noseleg brace. If the wheel bearing seizes no brace is going to stop the leg folding under followed by the almost inevitable inversion.

It would be interesting to know how many solid axle 6's have flipped unexpectedly after folding the noseleg.
Brian
 
I have personally witnessed 3 nose gear fold ups, and they were all on the third bounce, with all of us yelling to go around, to no avail.

I’ve lived on grass runways for over 20 Years with no problems. Fly the airplane properly and it will treat you right. Don’t try to force it on. RV’s all have enough power to just go around immediately if you don’t like something. Don’t fly the approach committed to the landing. Fly it committed to the go-around. It is a mental state that will do wonders for you over your flying career. ��


As Paul Harvey always said—- “Now for the rest of the story.” Don’t believe everything you read, including the accident investigation reports. I have personally seen fuel starvation accidents written up as vapor lock, in an injected engine at 12,500’!


Vic
 
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Ole Blue

Joby, here's a good data point for you. I did my transition training in Ole Blue, the original 6A with Mike Seager out of Vernonia, Oregon's dirt strip. That plane did not have an Anti-splat mod; but, it must have survived thousands of dirt strip landings. I don't remember what size the nosewheel axle was.

The thing I remember most vividly from Mike's instruction was to not let the nosewheel touch until there wasn't enough elevator to hold it up any longer. (I heard that a lot because it's not easy when you're learning to land a 6A.) He also wanted me to hold the stick full back when taxiing unless you needed to hold the nosewheel down due to wind.

I did install an Anti-splat and a Lip-skid on my 6A, because I'm not perfect, but a nice sod strip in good condition doesn't worry me in the least. John
 
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Lots of good stuff here: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=121430

"I believe most failures are a result of the Pilot using the nose gear as landing gear instead of taxi gear."

Of course this is one cause, the same as with all aircraft.

However, if poor technique caused most failures, pilots magically got a lot better when we started paying more attention to the nose wheel bearings/axle configuration, design and adjustment. About 6-10 years ago, there was a spate of these supposed "bad pilot techniques", some while taxiing slowly on pavement. After the awareness of the nose wheel axle/bearings/etc. was raised, the incidences of reported nose wheel lockups dropped dramatically, even though more and more planes are flying.
 
Don?t fly the approach committed to the landing. Fly it committed to the go-around. It is a mental state that will do wonders for you over your flying career.

Truer words are seldom spoken. This is excellent advice regardless of what aircraft you may be flying. Go-arounds are nearly free (just a little extra fuel cost) and in unlimited supply. Bent aircraft are expensive, not to mention embarrassing (and possibly lethal).
 
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