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  #31  
Old 04-02-2018, 12:10 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
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Location: Livermore, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimS View Post
So a CFI RV owner can give instruction in his plane without a LODA if they don't charge for the use of the airplane. I believe they can charge for their time though. How much could they realistically charge per hour seeing that auto mechanics commonly charge $100 per hour? I would think $60-$100 per hour would not be unreasonable.
The rulings that come out of courts often surprise me. But in this case, my opinion is that the FAA lawyers would rip this arguement to shreds. The airplane is being used to generate compensation for its owner, the cfi. Now, if you separate the two - you have an owner, not the cfi, who will genuinely let you borrow his plane for free - then you can legally pay the cfi. Same as if you are the owner.
BTW, actual cost numbers from when I was doing transition training in my -10: gas, $50/hr; insurance (just extra cost for giving dual), $400 per person (or $80/hr if 5 hours were needed); wear and tear on brakes, tires, ....??. So you see that your suggested ‘rate’ doesn’t come close to covering costs.
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  #32  
Old 04-02-2018, 01:36 PM
TimO TimO is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 439
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I have a LODA (authorization from the FAA) to do transition training in the RV-14. Last year I went thru the process. I'm sure that there is at least a SMALL chance that some people would have different results than I did, but, in my case doing a Flight Review in the RV-14 not all all do-able.

As part of my authorization I cannot even give transition training unless the pilot ALREADY has a current "BFR". If I were to charge someone, even for my time, (who was not doing transition training) that would be considered using an experimental for commercial purposes, which is expressly illegal. Insurance wise, to be PIC in the plane they have to meet my insurances' requirements, and they are fairly high so many pilots would not (for non-transition training this is), otherwise in theory I could give the airplane for free and my time for free and do a flight review if the person was covered. But I would never extend myself that way due to the insurance requirements. I can, however, do a BFR for anyone who I'd be willing to do this for, such as family, or named-insured friends.

My advice would be if you need a Flight Review, just go get the flight review and get it over with. Don't worry about the "RV" part of it. Use that time to go fly some airplane type you've never flown before, and make it fun, perhaps. Go get some retract time and combine a BFR with some instruction. Time in varied makes and models is valuable to you as a pilot. Then, once you're current, go call up an RV pilot who may or may not be a CFI and let them give you some stick time. Don't expect them to let you land it. I learned the hard way doing demo flights in my RV-10 that even people with 5000 hours can be a risk, so I won't let most people land it. The worst landing my RV-10 ever had was by a 5000 hour pilot...and I was stupid enough to let him try a 2nd time.

But whatever you do, don't try to skirt the commercial laws. If it gets out, it not only gets you in trouble but gives our whole experimental amateur-built type a little more of a black eye that we just don't need.

Regarding the insurance for having a LODA, it's big dollars. I would have to say that in general, it's not worth it as a CFI to even offer the training unless you're just dying to give away your life's free time to strangers who are coming to you to possibly damage your plane so that they don't damage their own. The only reason I got the LODA was to support the RV-14 community. It's definitely a way to lose money though. I could easily get the LODA for my RV-10 as well, but I decided I didn't need to have multiple ways for myself to spend more money in a year than I'd get back, and risk damage to my pride and joy at the same time.


On a separate note, if you OWN your own RV, and you want to get flight training in it, it's completely legal for you to pay the CFI for his time and get training. That is far more attractive to me. It would even be POSSIBLE for someone to buy an RV and learn to fly in their RV. The big catch there would be getting the insurance if you don't already have the private cert and required amount of time to get the insurance. There are insurers out there that will require 250 hours just to insure a pilot in an RV. There are some who will insure you with zero hours, but at a very high rate. I'm currently paying the latter for my daughter.
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RV-10 N104CD - Flying 2/2006 - 1375+ hours http://www.MyRV10.com
RV-14 N14YT - Flying 6/2016 - 300+ hours http://www.MyRV14.com
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Last edited by TimO : 04-02-2018 at 01:43 PM.
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  #33  
Old 04-02-2018, 02:21 PM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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To anyone nearing their first flight, stick time with someone in any RV, even if they aren't a CFI is far better than doing it totally cold turkey, but I would recommend that be used only as a last resort.

As Tim himself mentioned, landings need to be learned, and you will only learn by doing. That requires someone that is willing to allow you to try (actually doing landings) and has the abilities to help you through the process.

Landing technique is the majority of the focus during transition training

The value of using an experienced instructor like Tim or any of the others can't be over emphasized. I have been using Mike Seager for flight reviews and other specific training for over 20 years and I still learn new things about flying these airplanes when he and I fly together.

With all of the time and money that gets put into building an RV, don't short circuit the process at the end by not being as prepared as you possibly can be.
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  #34  
Old 04-04-2018, 07:00 PM
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DonFromTX DonFromTX is offline
 
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In case anyone else is trying to get a copy of someones LODA, my request to the FSDO was returned today, saying I needed to resubmit it on a FOIA request form!
Sometimes the silliness of the FAA can get to me. Rather than simply email it to me, now we have to employ a whole fleet of people that handle FOIA requests. Maybe privatizing is not such a bad idea after all.
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  #35  
Old 04-04-2018, 10:00 PM
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RV7A Flyer RV7A Flyer is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonFromTX View Post
In case anyone else is trying to get a copy of someones LODA, my request to the FSDO was returned today, saying I needed to resubmit it on a FOIA request form!
Sometimes the silliness of the FAA can get to me. Rather than simply email it to me, now we have to employ a whole fleet of people that handle FOIA requests. Maybe privatizing is not such a bad idea after all.
Why do you think someone's FAA records should be publicly available in the first place? It bothers me that they make public my aircraft registration info, including home address, as well. No state driver's license bureau does that with vehicle licenses. Not sure why airman records should be any different, in that they should not just be "out there" for anyone to access. Just my opinion, of course....
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  #36  
Old 04-05-2018, 12:06 AM
PilotjohnS PilotjohnS is offline
 
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I believe you can make some of the FAA records private, and not have everything available in the public database. Most flight attendants do this.
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  #37  
Old 04-05-2018, 04:28 AM
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rmartingt rmartingt is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV7A Flyer View Post
Why do you think someone's FAA records should be publicly available in the first place? It bothers me that they make public my aircraft registration info, including home address, as well. No state driver's license bureau does that with vehicle licenses. Not sure why airman records should be any different, in that they should not just be "out there" for anyone to access. Just my opinion, of course....
I asked the FAA once. They said:

"Are records are public for safety."

Yes, "are".

I don't see how "safety" is enhanced by making this stuff public.
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  #38  
Old 04-05-2018, 10:43 AM
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DonFromTX DonFromTX is offline
 
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I do. A few years back I got a letter from the FAA informing me that the last three annuals on my Cherokee were performed by a person hired and acting as an IA by the local airport, who did not even have a mechanics license!
To me it is safer to have annuals and maintenance by a licensed repairman. I certainly have no problems whatever with having my credentials made available to people that might be harmed by my dishonesty. Should I be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmartingt View Post
I asked the FAA once. They said:

"Are records are public for safety."

Yes, "are".

I don't see how "safety" is enhanced by making this stuff public.
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  #39  
Old 04-05-2018, 03:50 PM
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RV8JD RV8JD is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PilotjohnS View Post
I believe you can make some of the FAA records private, and not have everything available in the public database. Most flight attendants do this.
You may request the FAA to withhold your Airmen Certificate address information from release.

It's easy to do. See this website for additional info:

https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certifi...releasability/
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  #40  
Old 04-05-2018, 11:30 PM
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RV7A Flyer RV7A Flyer is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonFromTX View Post
I do. A few years back I got a letter from the FAA informing me that the last three annuals on my Cherokee were performed by a person hired and acting as an IA by the local airport, who did not even have a mechanics license!
To me it is safer to have annuals and maintenance by a licensed repairman. I certainly have no problems whatever with having my credentials made available to people that might be harmed by my dishonesty. Should I be?
How is knowing the home address of the owner of an aircraft increasing safety?
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