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Rudder trailing edge

H

HeliCooper

Well Known Member
I read through section 5 a couple times but I still don't understand the trailing edge construction with regard to the RTV. I am assuming you put a thin layer under the entire trailing edge and then on top of it as you work the left skin down. Do I need to make a shim for the clecos to hold the trailing edge down since it is at an angle?

Where exactly do they want you to put the gum wad size globs for the stiffeners? Additionally I read elsewhere in the forum that the permatex ultra grey was the preferred RTV. Is this still correct?

Thanks as always,
 
I'm not seeing using RTV in Van's instructions. I am aware of others using RTV. I used the 3M tape Van's recommends on the trim tap and did not like the results. The edges of the skins did not lay as flat as I would like and if you squeeze the skins you can feel them stick and release from the tape. This is after riveting . I used Proseal on all the trailing edges on the 10 and liked the results. I will be using Proseal on the remainder of the TE for the RV-14.
As the instructions say, you smear a thin layer over both sides of the TE (I will use Proseal) 1/32" at most. Put your sealant on one side then cleco it to your first skin. I would have the clecos sticking down off the edge of the table on the first side so you can see the cleco tips and also for smearing the sealant on the last side. When you lay the last skin over the LE just push the clecos up thru the second skin.
Another trick that I read on here is to have an alum. angle , thin stock but super straight and pre drill the holes with the exact same spacing as your TE. What you do with this is place the drilled angle over your sealed TE and push the clecoes up thru the entire TE and angle. This will give you a true straight TE. I always put a strip of clear packaging tape on the angle so the sealant doesn't stick to it. Let the sealant cure over night remove a few clecos at a time to get the angle off and reinstall the clecos as soon as you can and rivet as instructed by the plans.
I also do not see where you put a dab od sealant on the ribs?
Ron
 
HeliCooper said:
I read through section 5 a couple times but I still don't understand the trailing edge construction with regard to the RTV. I am assuming you put a thin layer under the entire trailing edge and then on top of it as you work the left skin down. Do I need to make a shim for the clecos to hold the trailing edge down since it is at an angle?

Where exactly do they want you to put the gum wad size globs for the stiffeners? Additionally I read elsewhere in the forum that the permatex ultra grey was the preferred RTV. Is this still correct?

Thanks as always,
Click to expand...

Section 5 is a generic document encompassing all of the RV models.
The use of RTV in the RV-14 rudder is not called for in the instructions, because the RV-14 rudder does not have stiffeners in the sense they are in some RV applications. It is actually a rib that ties the left and right side together when they get joined with the blind rivets.
 
New builder alert?

If Vans doesn't call for any bonding of the rudder's TE (agree, it does not)?
Why does it say to scuff up the skin where the TE contacts both skins.

Doesn't seem too urgent after reading forward, but maybe I am missing something? :rolleyes:
 
Icarus said:
New builder alert?

If Vans doesn't call for any bonding of the rudder's TE (agree, it does not)?
Why does it say to scuff up the skin where the TE contacts both skins.

Doesn't seem too urgent after reading forward, but maybe I am missing something? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Scuffing helps the double sided 3m tape to bond.
 
As in post # 2, I'm going back to proseal after one try with tape. I do believe the tape and/or proseal is just to hold things straight before/while riveting. If that is the case then the tape might be fine, but I liked having the edges bonded tight.
 
Thanks guys. I ordered some tape, pro-seal and seal gun.

Gonnah try them all out. Thanks for the heads up going into it.

Paul
 
Okay guys I found my error and it is a pretty stupid one. On page 07-09 where it reads "Use adhesive and assembly instructions as described in Section 5.7 to adhere R-916-1 trailing edge to the skin." Section 5.7 is where it described the use of proseal or RTV. Unfortunately section 5.7 is also for folded trailing edges not riveted edges. It was a numbering error by Vans and a lack of attention to detail by me.

That being said thank you Ron for that detailed description. That, and the proper 5.8 section, gave me a much better idea of what was going on here. I definitely appreciate the additional tip of using a piece of angle. That seems like a pretty straight forward way of getting a greatly finished TE.
 
Another stupid question. Since they don't want you priming the area you scuff up on the skins I am assuming they do not want you to prime the trailing edge either. Do I need to leave the trailing edge as is?

Thank you
 
You guys are having too much fun . . .

I may have to order myself one of those tail kits;)
 
I also was not please with the use of the double sided tape for the rudder. I'll be going back to Pro-Seal as well for other trailing edges. It's a much tighter fit to Pro-Seal first with cleco in every hole and then rivet after it's cured. I just match drilled a piece of tube steel to keep perfect straight alignment when clecoing.
 
Proseal

I used 3m 5200 quick cure purchased at Home Depot.
It cures in less than 24 hrs and has a much stronger, flexible
Bond than proseal although as messy to work with. Use multiple
Pairs of gloves. Spread it on thin with a plastic serrated knife.
Cleco every hole to a straight bench or 3/4 right angle stock.
The tube stock also sounds like a good idea.

In the marine business 5200 has a nick name of 52 million.
The stuff is amazingly strong.
 
agirard7a said:
I used 3m 5200 quick cure purchased at Home Depot.
It cures in less than 24 hrs and has a much stronger, flexible
Bond than proseal although as messy to work with. Use multiple
Pairs of gloves. Spread it on thin with a plastic serrated knife.
Cleco every hole to a straight bench or 3/4 right angle stock.
The tube stock also sounds like a good idea.

In the marine business 5200 has a nick name of 52 million.
The stuff is amazingly strong.
Click to expand...

Could you verify that is has no silicone in it and is paintable with Acry-Glo or some other aircraft paint?
 
3m 5200

3m 5200 is a polyurethane base permanent,
Flexible, paintable adhesive. I would not recommend
this product if you think you will ever need to remove
Or seperate what is being bonded.

I have seen cases with wood bonded to fiberglass, completely
distroyed the fiberglass when it was separated, not to mention
the wood. It bonds extremely well to metal. If you scuff and clean
The surface with alcohol, naphtha, lacquer thinner, or acetone. Same as you
would prep for proseal.

I used it on my flap trailing edges, clecoed to a straight work bench, combined with back riveting
On a long steel plate that I bought from harbour freight.
The result was great. Dead nut straight and strong.

This is an alternative to using proseal. It's one part,
cures faster, comes in a small tube for 6 bucks and in my opinion
A better product for the application. Make sure to get the quick cure!

2vk0x1s.jpg
 
Last edited:
Twist in Rudder - one side only??

Cantzon said:
You do not need a shim for the clecos.
Click to expand...

Are you sure? We have finished our RV-14 rudder but we completed it with one side down (as per plans). Now that side sits flat on the workbench but if we turn our completed rudder over it has a twist and slight rock.
This is because the trailing edge is a constant thickness but the leading edge is tapered. To fix this we should have jigged the trailing edge at the bottom end by 9mm before we riveted then applied the tape TE adhesive.
Can anyone else please post how their RV-14 rudders sit for both sides up when on a flat bench?
 
agirard7a said:
3m 5200 is a polyurethane base permanent,
Flexible, paintable adhesive. I would not recommend
this product if you think you will ever need to remove
Or seperate what is being bonded.

I have seen cases with wood bonded to fiberglass, completely
distroyed the fiberglass when it was separated, not to mention
the wood. It bonds extremely well to metal. If you scuff and clean
The surface with alcohol, naphtha, lacquer thinner, or acetone. Same as you
would prep for proseal.

I used it on my flap trailing edges, clecoed to a straight work bench, combined with back riveting
On a long steel plate that I bought from harbour freight.
The result was great. Dead nut straight and strong.

This is an alternative to using proseal. It's one part,
cures faster, comes in a small tube for 6 bucks and in my opinion
A better product for the application. Make sure to get the quick cure!
Click to expand...

Would this be okay to use on the foam ribs in the elevator and trim tab? Thinking this would be a lot easier to use then prosealing all those parts together.

Thanks,

Jim
 
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