How does your wife like it ?

I thought that Title may raise a few eyebrows I'm getting close to taking the Van's plunge but am still a little undecided about the -4, -6/-7. I was leaning towards the -6/-7 just because of the seating configuration but after thinking about things for awhile here are my thoughts.

I'm mostly going to go out flying solo, buzz the fields, do acro, smoke (airplane.... not me) and the occasional 2-up X country. The side by side seating is nice for the passenger but how often is that really going to be. I had to ask myself. I'll likely have that right seat empty most of the time and as a result I'm flying in a wider fuse plane than necessary.

So that brings me to my title. For those who have flown X country with a passenger in the rear of your -4, how did they do ? I know I've been green a time or two in the rear seat of a 172, jammed down in that little seat. And I can't get image out of my mind. I surely don't want to subject my wife to that.

So I'm looking for some honest opinions as this may very well sway my decision away from the -6's.

Is the rear seat cramped, nauseating, lousy view, hot, louder, rougher, etc...... or really not that bad.

Thanks for the input,

Darren

My wife loves our -4! To her Cobi (short for Cobra Ball) as she calls the plane is part of the family and was a big part of what we did together when courting and still after we got married, she was commenting just the other day how well she can see out of both sides of the plane rather then just one side like is so common on other planes, she goes with me all the time, I have her with me much more often then I go solo. Also the -4 is an excellent cross country plane for both pilot and passenger so long as you build the seats correctly to fit, we can run the gas out in one sitting with no complaints.

Cramped and pretty scary

I haven't flown x-c in the back of a RV-4 but I did a local flight once. It was the most nervous ride I've taken in an RV! I quickly realized that I had absolutely no chance of reaching the throttle in case the pilot became incapacitated. There was no room to reach over or around him. I also couldn't see any of the panel (which I can at least wiggle and stretch to see in the back of the -8). I spent the whole time contemplating how I would have to make donuts in the sky with an incapacitated pilot in the front seat until the fuel ran out, then dead-stick it onto the ground where I would ground-loop (in the best case scenario). No thank you. I don't consider the plane a x-c option for two people.

Now, in the -8, Paul has rigged a way for me to control the throttle (and we've tested it), so now I can get the plane down if he gets whacked by a bird or something. The -8 would also allow the much less desirable reach over the shoulder to pull the power. I don't know the options for throttle control in the -4 but that would be the critical difference to me since you absolutely can not reach the throttle from the backseat (at least in the plane I rode in).

As for comfort on a x-c, I think both people would have to be adventurous and hardy types to enjoy a significant trip in an RV-4. With throttle control, I would personally consider it acceptable and reasonable....but a distant second choice to the -8 and leagues behind the side-by-sides.

YEMV,

Is your wife a pilot?

I think it depends on how much your wife wants to participate in the flying. Would you consider an 8 instead of a 4? If she's just a passenger, the back seat of an 8(A) is pretty roomy, although one lady told me she likened the seating position to that of a gynecologist's exam table. The 4 is considerably smaller, but the comparisons are similar to the 8. If you take off your harness you can wiggle around a little, and one has her own personal space back there, not having to rub elbows with the pilot. There is little if any forward visibility. You can install rudder pedals (in the 8) for the back seat, but they are pretty useless since you really can't land the aircraft from back there, and they are not really needed for cruise flight. The rear seat throttle option gives the GIB the option to control the aircraft if the GIF is incapacitated (which is the only reason I installed it).

In my situation, my wife is a pilot, and she tired of the back seat after years of flying back there. We'll see how she likes the change in a few months when the 7 is finished.

She LOVES it

My wife loves flying and was hesitant (putting it mildly) about a -4. She didn't want to be "stuck in back looking at two wings and the back of my head"! She absolutely was a against it... until she rode back there. It is her very favorite now. The visibility is unparalleled according to her. She can't get enough.

We've traveled XC a lot! It works great as an XC plane for us. My -4 has rear foot wells. This is a mandatory item, which makes a huge difference. I also have rear pedals, throttle, stick, & slip indicator. It flies well from the Pax seat.

One more thing that helps make it work... she's 5'5" and 125lbs. She says she's got plenty of room.

My preference is cross-country, since we have some of the best scenery in the USA.....; and my wife prefers going along. After many years of sitting tandem on a motorcycle, a side by side was the better option.

For zipping around airfields and aerobatics, I do believe sitting in the center is best, but I'm afraid that I'd get bored quicker than not. The solution is to have two airplanes, a side by side and tandem. If only one, then go with a side by side.

L.Adamson --- RV6A

The chances of landing a -4 from the back seat are the same as landing an -8... Both planes can be equipped with rear throttle and rudder. The -4 is tighter and is not as comfortable for most people though.

My non-pilot wife likes the -4 but says she likes to see my face. She says she wants to see if I look concerned.

The rear is not hotter but it can be cooler since I have no rear heat. Vis is great.

Of course

its total a mission dependant/Wife decision thing.

For me I'm IFR equipped and I personally couldn't imaging all that work without a seat next to me to put stuff on.

of course the question is how much better to the tandem models fly acro vs the sbs?.. Certainly that are better but by how much?

Frank

How does your wife like it

This was a no brainer to us. After 30+ years riding in the right seat of a Cessna-170B, the RV had to be a side by side. We started with a RV-6 and now have a RV-7. My wife who is slightly claustrofobic (sp?), does not like being strapped in the back....also, even though not a pilot, would have a better chance of landing the plane should I become incapacitated. We have about 550 hrs on the 7 in about 4 years which includes some coast to coast stuff. For the long X-country, the side by side works out best for us. And..it is nice to have a co-pilot from time to time. .

Ed Booth, Trenton, SC

Something else to consider that nobody brought up is that the back seat may have exaggerated movements. I haven't flown in the back of an RV, but I have flown in the back of a super cub, where you are a bit aft from the cg. When maneuvering it seemed like the airplane was pitching a lot more than it was since I wasn't in the middle of the CG.

So while my wife could be ok with a tandem, my dad would get very, very sick.

Just something to think about.

schu

Luggage?

The -7 has more luggage space than the -4. Your wife will most likely appreciate that.

Also the -7 is much easier to build than the -4.

Did you think about the -8? You still have tandem seating but get two luggage compartments and more room in the back and it uses the same matched hole technology as the -7.

Yes I think Wife is one thing and Pilot is another thing. Our -4 has foot wells and a stick in the back, as a pilot I have no problem riding in the back, if the worst happened to the pilot just position the airplane over the runway at 3k or higher and using your left foot pull the mixture closed and land the plane. If you are a Pilot that is all you will need to make a landing you can walk away from, if your just a passenger then it probably would not matter what you had at your disposal your in trouble. As for seeing the panel, if the seat is built right and adjusted so that the wife is not sitting down in a hole then she can see out to both sides and out the front including much of the panel. If the seats are wrong and maybe no foot wells it can cripple you in 30 minuets and you may not see anything from the back seat, everybody that has been in the back of my -4 has loved it! I have taken a couple of big guys in the -4, one 6?5? and 250lb, one 6?2?+ and 230lb and though they loved it I would think long CC would not be the best for them but if the wife is under 6? and under 200lb the back of a 4 can be adjusted to fit her needs very well.

I have a 4 and fly solo 95% of the time. Other 5% is with wife kids etc. I have rear throttle, stick and rudder pedals. I did conversion from the back. Spent maybe 15 hrs in the back on FAA registered -4 until I could find someone who was actually allowed to fly the 4 on local license. When it hot the air is lacking. it gets very hot under the perspex, but same for all the RV's. I was keen to learn and loving it so I did not feel unconfortable, until we started yo yo spins... I was green for 3 hrs after we landed but the pilot was a world renowned display pilot and was having so much fun I kept quiet about my rapidly changing complexion and the breakfast trying to get out.....:

From back a bit like landing a Pitts and maybe above my skill level. I managed a couple bounces and we were able to use the plane again. Eventually you get the hang of it, but it is not comfortable. Viz of the panel is limited, so I fitted a EFIS in the back. It is removable and will be fitted tot he panel when I get time to do it. Front seat is a different storey and tandem centre line seating can not be beat.

Wife has been on a couple long trips with me and when the engine turns she sleeps (same in car), so she actually prefers sitting behind me so she does not have to make chit chat... Different strokes for different folks.... She has no interest in becoming a pilot or flying herself which also needs to be mentioned... (she says she has me so does not need to know what to do in air) Social flying with anyone interested (showing things, instruments, guages etc) is difficult in both the 4 and the 8.

Air in back is limited so I would fit additional air vents for rear seater (4 & 8). Even in winter it hardly ever below 15 deg C here in Africa, so heater is not required...

For social I would go for a side by sider. Having said that the 4 is faster, cheaper and more fun for me personally so the 5% hardly justifies it. I LUV MY 4, but I have bought a share in a 6 for social flying and teaching my kids to fly.....

Depends on your budget. Your mission should favour a 4 and you should get way more bang for your buck if you buying a 4 than a side by sider.
If you buying I would got for a 4. If you building I would go for a 7 regardless. (resale, ease of build, size etc). A new 4 would cost similar bucks when complete, but a 7 would be far easier to sell....

my 2c...
They now too big to double up


This is the view from the back...


Space in the back is tight.

My wife is 5'1" and sometimes just jumps in the back seat with a book while I tinker on something. Oregon Aero seats and footwells are the way to go. And since I generally fly alone, take the rear seat out and I've got a massive baggage area. Centerline seating and the overall great look of the -4 for me was a given.

Economics may dictate!

For the money, an RV-4 is an incredible buy that carries two in comfort and speed and economy. My wife and I have taken several long trips in our -4s, including two to OSH (which was over 800nm away) as well as 20+ 400 nm trips. The -4 can do it nicely and as mentioned, with footwells and good music, and personally designed seats, the back seat is fine and surprisingly comfortable. And with a metal prop, which we have, 50 lbs of luggage is our standard. My wife is 5'7" and like most backseaters enjoys falling asleep as soon as the tach starts turning however, she enjoys acro at times and feels the visibility in the -4 is more than adequate, again seat cushions being key here. For the money, an RV-4 can hardly be beat and most trips are under 3 hours so very managable.

One more thing to consider: Many people buy an airplane with their wife/kids in mind. Think long term, who is really going to be riding with you? Most likely 80% of the time you will be solo. After all, it is most liely YOUR passion to fly! I always tell people to buy/build with that primary rider in mind...YOU! Your wife and kids may not even WANT to ride with you after that first experience, even if it's a Lear jet!

We currently also have an RV-6 and it is very comfortable with more room for the passenger and a littel more baggage capacity. But for the money, and they are a lot cheaper to buy (not build by the way...!)the -4 wins hands down easily when thought of economically.

Dos Cents

Size matters

My wife likes riding back there, but she's 5 feet tall and fits easily back there,the 4 is a great airplane.
RV-4 Flying, 180-cs
3-B project

Jetj01 said:

One more thing to consider: Many people buy an airplane with their wife/kids in mind. Think long term, who is really going to be riding with you? Most likely 80% of the time you will be solo. After all, it is most liely YOUR passion to fly! I always tell people to buy/build with that primary rider in mind...YOU! Your wife and kids may not even WANT to ride with you after that first experience, even if it's a Lear jet!

Click to expand...

I think we went the rounds on this before...

Good heavens.............look at the "Rosie & Tuppergal's (2nd) Cayman Islands Trip 4/18-5/10, 2009" thread. A bunch of people having a good time by NOT flying solo! These people have been all over the place !

Well, that's the way it is around here too. A bunch of RV'ers who prefer to take their spouses cross-country's or breakfast/brunch runs on Sunday's.
Personally, I knew 15 years ago, that I'd soon get bored flying solo. I like to share the experience! Even an instructor and friend of mine who fly's a Pitt's/Russian radial when off duty from flying the airlines, is always taking someone in the front seat. Usually it's one of his kids.

L.Adamson --- RV6A

It depends most on the size of your wife.....

Hey Louise,
I have considered an emergency situation for the passenger (pilot) of a -4,
after flying to an airport, use your left foot to bump the throttle to lower power position. Flying right handed use your left hand to pull the left rudder cable which will be needed as you reduce power. Using this technique I believe it would be possible to make a reasonably controlled landing from rear seat of a -4 assuming weather/winds can be handled.
BUT this is only a theory....would like to hear if it could be simulated to a safe point

Glenn Wilkinson

Thanks to all for the very informative responses. It never ceases to amaze me the helpfulness of folks on this forum and the passion that Van's aircrafts invokes.

I am a pretty small fella 5'9" 150 lbs and my wife is 5'1" 102 lbs. From the postings I think we will have lots of room in the -4. I gather that a key to comfort is good seats. I built/own/fly a two place tandem ultralight and I can count on one hand the number of times I've had a passenger. So I think I will forgo the side by side seating for now as I'll likely fly solo most of the time.

She is not a pilot, nor wants to become one, so if something happens to me up front, we are both going to see our Lord in any case, even if she has a joystick. So I'm not going to sweat the lack of control from the rear seat.

Some people are builders, some flyers and some love both aspects of the hobby, me being one of them. It does seem a little foolhardy to build when there are some decent deals out there on pre-owned, but I can't help but wanting to make the airplane MY OWN. So I think I'll turn an blind eye to those great deals and leave them for the Flyers Only

I am still very interested in Acro and have an Aerobatic club where I live. I have my eye on a -4 kit that is 60% done but it needs a motor. Now I'm going to deviate a bit on the thread and seek some more info on Engine Choices.

I live at 3400 ASL. Is 160 HP going to give me good power for Acro where I wouldn't have to dive prior to doing a loop, for example? I realize this is a subjective question as some have felt the need to put 200 HP in their -4, but the 0-320 engines are easier to find.

Thanks,

Darren

Darren S said:

I know I've been green a time or two in the rear seat of a 172, jammed down in that little seat. And I can't get image out of my mind. I surely don't want to subject my wife to that.

So I'm looking for some honest opinions as this may very well sway my decision away from the -6's.

Is the rear seat cramped, nauseating, lousy view, hot, louder, rougher, etc...... or really not that bad.

Thanks for the input,

Darren

Click to expand...

Don't worry about motion sickness in an RV. My wife has been sick more than once flying a 172 or 150. But those airplanes are like flying a waterbed and a bit of turbulence can ruin your flight.

The RV is not like that. Turbulence is more of a 'twitch' then slow mush if that makes sense. Also you can climb above it quickly and find smooth air. My wife has never once been sick in the RV over the past 6 years. And that is from someone who can't sit backwards on a bus.

Saying that, I chose the -7 for the reason of seating. If I built the airplane for myself it would definitely be a -8. Wife loves the -7.

Your 160hp -4 will be able to run flat out at 200mph+or- so you can do acro like loops without diving first, you can do acro in an RV at cruse power and gain altitude!

Louise Hose said:

I haven't flown x-c in the back of a RV-4 but I did a local flight once. It was the most nervous ride I've taken in an RV! I quickly realized that I had absolutely no chance of reaching the throttle in case the pilot became incapacitated. There was no room to reach over or around him. I also couldn't see any of the panel (which I can at least wiggle and stretch to see in the back of the -8). I spent the whole time contemplating how I would have to make donuts in the sky with an incapacitated pilot in the front seat until the fuel ran out, then dead-stick it onto the ground where I would ground-loop (in the best case scenario). No thank you. I don't consider the plane a x-c option for two people.

Now, in the -8, Paul has rigged a way for me to control the throttle (and we've tested it), so now I can get the plane down if he gets whacked by a bird or something. The -8 would also allow the much less desirable reach over the shoulder to pull the power. I don't know the options for throttle control in the -4 but that would be the critical difference to me since you absolutely can not reach the throttle from the backseat (at least in the plane I rode in).

As for comfort on a x-c, I think both people would have to be adventurous and hardy types to enjoy a significant trip in an RV-4. With throttle control, I would personally consider it acceptable and reasonable....but a distant second choice to the -8 and leagues behind the side-by-sides.

YEMV,

Click to expand...

No diff outcome than if you were on the back of a motorcycle

Russ McCutcheon said:

Your 160hp -4 will be able to run flat out at 200mph+or- so you can do acro like loops without diving first, you can do acro in an RV at cruse power and gain altitude!

Click to expand...

Should be fine with 320. I have IO-360 but am based at 5500ft. Went 0-360 more to operate from the short farm type strip at our residential type housing estate. Murphy's Law. Shortly after we moved there the runway was upgraded to 3000ft and given a black top to attract the bigger iron boys, so now 0-320 with FP would have been more than adequate. Have flown behind 320 with FP prop, it more than able at 6000ft solo for aero's.... There is a difference, but had i not flown the 0-360 so much i doubt i would have noticed much although my aero's are very mild odd roll and loop etc....

doing it different

As usual I am doing it different.
I will by my -4 first then find a wife to fit it. I noticed lots of pilots lady friends seem to like flying until they get some wedding cake in thier belly. Hmm maybe a test like "should we sell the plane to buy you a super big wedding ring & fancy honemoon?" ha ha ha.

When buying a car its nice to rent one first if possible. An idea may be to go to a flying with different RVs and sit in them with your lady, trying it out.

Suspect if you want your wife to fly with you as much as possible considering her wishes on the specific bird will probably be a big factor. My mechanic flew his wife everywhere in their Pacer. Now that he is "sport" she just does not like riding in any of his three different sport air planes.

Like Some one said good case for two airplanes.
My Tri Pacer and an RV-4.
But what do I know, divorced 20 years and no RV yet..
When this war is over stuff is gonna change

RV-4 For Cross Country

As others have said - key is rear footwells, decent seats, and good ventilation for the back.

I'm biased and have no real stick time in any other models but, as Doug Reeves recently learned, the -4 is a blast to fly and is more fun than a -6 or -8.

160 HP is fine. 180 would give better climb rate but 160 is more than adequate.

I've flown 1000 NM trips on multiple occasions with and without passengers with no real complaints. You stop about every 2.5-3 hours anyway for fuel.
After 5-6 hours I'm ready to call it a day myself as well.

As for stability it is surprising how a ship so nimble can be so stable in cross country mode. Sure if you try to read a chart you might end up in a bank but with GPS it just isn't that necessary anymore to wrestle paper that much. Good pre-flight planning takes care of that.

I've often wanted an autopilot for cross countries but haven't made the leap. Even without one the workload isn't bad and, after all, we build these things to fly them, right?

As far as building the -4 - it is not the erector set the -7 and -8 are but there is a heck of a lot more done on them now then back in the early 90s when I first built mine. Pre-punched wing skins, etc are huge time savings.
There is a world of difference between the builder of yesteryear and today - all a good thing as it has expanded the market making things like it possible for things like this forum to exist. But it requires more dedication to build a -4 to get through the task. Not that it doesn't on a -7 or -8 just that you have to figure more stuff out. But you have forums like this to help.

With over 1200 built it still enjoys a 50% completion rate advantage over the -8 and for my money is the best value around. Not the best investment - resale dictates the -7 as that champion based on demograpics and numbers built - but the biggest bang for buck.

I've toyed with the idea of developing a matched hole version of the thing under license if I could obtain such as I think that would revive it even more. The -8 is a great airplane but lost something along the way. Just my opinion which is, always, subject to disagreement.

BTW

My fiance is 5'11 and has legs longer than my 34" inseam. She fits fine in that back and enjoys our adventures in the -4. Footwells - should have made them a part of the kit years ago........

Question from RV 4 noob:

What are the back AND front seat dimensions like? If there's more room than in half an RV7/9? Less? The same? Mostly worried about butt/shoulder room, I'm 6' and the fiance (for 7 more days (and 8 minutes....)) is like 5'9", but I'm about 265 or 270, I fit ok in a 7/9 cockpit, shoudl I even bother looking at 4's?

Finding the right one...

The first thing I ask prospective airplane buyers is "how many times a year will you fly your airplane with more than yourself on board"? Most people answer less than 5%. The RV4 is absolutely the best flying RV of them all, the Rocket being the RV4 personified. Both are pilots airplanes, not passengers airplanes. The beauty is you get the single seat feeling in-flight and retain passenger capability. If you're over 6' tall and 200 lbs, the -4 will be a tighter fit, the Rocket much better room. At 5'10"/170 lbs the RV4 fits me perfect. Cross countries of 1000 miles a day was my "posterior" limit although I did a couple longer...

Now to answer the question: My wife loves riding in the back of our Rocket, long haul, short haul, acro, whatever, she's in. She liked my RV4 as well but couldn't haul as many goodies along, the Rocket's baggage area is huge and CG isn't an issue. The Rocket is also alot faster and we routinely beat the airlines on 500 mile trips or less with no hassles, TSA, parking or delays. Since we park in our back yard, it's always a direct flight Since this is the RV4 site though, I'll try to stay on track.

First thing is you have to find a girl who loves to fly with you. Next, you have to make her comfortable.
Here are some comfort items I added to my RV4 over the years:

1. Rear foot-wells, absolute must!
2. Heated Rear seat: http://www.amazon.com/Wagan-Deluxe-..._3?ie=UTF8&s=automotive&qid=1241998398&sr=8-3
3. Good rear canopy seal (lots of summer in-flight testing to get all leaks).
4. Good intercom with tunes,
5. Bose headset.
6. Small GPS mounted on back of roll bar. (when are we gonna be there?)
7. Extended baggage/glove box (I carried all my stuff in the forward baggage "glove box" where the battery once was.) This gave her the entire RV4 baggage area to herself.
8. Side pockets for "stuff" storage.
9. Oregon Aero cushions.
10. Travel pillows.

I purchased my RV4 tail kit after reading a magazine ad way back in the 80's, pre-internet, pre-pre-punch and pre-Vansairforce.net. It's still one of the best decisions I ever made...

Smokey
HR2

DITTOS Smokey!

Glenn Wilkinson

P.S. You're starting to make me breath "funny" over a Rocket !

A friend of mine has an 8. I flown in the back and I hate it. I can't see anything, I feel boxed in. I can fly it just fine back there. But I feel weard. In my 7, the wife loves it. In my kitfox, the wife loves it. Why? because she is apart of the flight. She loves to look at the gauges and fly along. She doesn't know how to fly and doesn't want to. But she loves being apart and do the flight plan stuff. She likes seeing what I see. My kitfox is tail wheel. The RV is nose. Why? because I already have a tail wheel airplane. Having a nose wheel airplane is cool, I CAN SEE, on the ground. The view is nice to have. I plan on going to many airports that I've never been to, so seeing is going to be nice. My wife likes that also. I have another thing that is not acceptable, mufflers. Boy does that make the RV nice, quiet and smooth.

Everything is, to each their own. I'm very happy with my choice. I also put those leather seats from classic aero in the airplane. Now that's real nice, the wife thinks so also. If I have a happy wife, I'm happy to. Why? because she will be right there with me. Now, having a happy wife in the RV means I get to fly the kitfox solo. Believe be, that's makes me very happy.

allbee said:

In my 7, the wife loves it. In my kitfox, the wife loves it. Why? because she is apart of the flight. She loves to look at the gauges and fly along.

Click to expand...

Exactly, exactly, exactly!!!!

You hit the nail perfectly in the center! My wife rode for years, looking at the back of my head on a motorcycle. She knows better!

With all the excellent scenery in our part of the world, my wife wants to see it at the same time I do! She wouldn't dream of reading a book or knitting..

L.Adamson -- RV6A

-4

Thanks guys....you are what is keeping me working on a pre punched etc.
early RV4.....empenage coming along.....but long way to go

Down South we say.....

allbee said:

If I have a happy wife, I'm happy to. Why? because she will be right there with me. Now, having a happy wife in the RV means I get to fly the kitfox solo. Believe be, that's makes me very happy.

Click to expand...

...."If Mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy"...

I agree with you...

Side by Side

I am building a 9A, and fly regularly as a passenger in an 8, a 9A, and a 6A. I can tell you that, even as an experienced pilot, I enjoy the side -by-side much more. In the back of the 8 I feel isolated from the panel and uncomfortable pysically. My legs are forced into small slots on either side of the pilot's seat, and if I got a sudden cramp I would die. I am always trying, with minimal success, to peak over his shoulder to see the panel. As was mentioned above, no way to see the pilot's face.

I once started an 8A, but sold it due to a divorce. I would not consider building a tandem plane now. The 7s and 9s are just too perfect.

npowell
RV-9A
Just completed wiring
Working on canopy

Darren S said:

I'm mostly going to go out flying solo,...

Click to expand...

I believe this should be a major, if not the deciding factor in your decision. You should choose a plane for its primary use.

For all those who?re flying often with their wives, a side-by-side makes perfect sense. But if you?re going to be mostly flying solo, center line flying is the only way to go.