RV-14A Isham Tool kit

Hi all, As I near the start of my -14A, I am looking at the various tool kits. It appears that the Isham "Gold Standard" kit has a lot of the things I want like the pneumatic squeezer, DRDT-2, etc....

They have their upgrade tools that can be added and I have some questions.

1. Since all of the holes are final drill sized on the -14, is there any reason to upgrade to the Sioux air drill? How much drilling is left since all the holes are final sized?

2. Would you add the longeron yoke and the and/or the 4" thin nose yoke for the pneumatic squeezer?

3. Would you get the swivel flush rivet set since it already comes with the standard flush rivet set?

4. Would you get the adjustable set holder for the pneumatic squeezer?

5. The kit comes with a tungsten bucking bar, would you get the steel bar assortment?

6. How about the 1/4"-28 countersink cage?

What say ye experienced craftsman?

It's a good kit and Isham is a great guy!

The Sioux drill is worth it, I bought one after the fact.

The pneumatic squeezer he sent me wasn't that great, it kind of slammed shut and didn't offer me much control, so bad we stopped using it until I saw somebody else using a nicer unit and realized it wasn't me, it was the tool. I would delete that and go for the Cleaveland Pneumatic Squeezer, love it such much I gave it a name.

You will need some various sized yokes for the pneumatic squeezer eventually so the first time you have a need go ahead and buy one. We spent a lot of time trying to avoid buying the expensive yokes, in the end I should have just bought them. I think I ended up with the 2, 3, and 4 inch yokes.

You will end up buying a bunch of different bucking bars, mostly from Cleaveland or Spruce .. I wouldn't worry too much about getting everything you need in one shot.

The kit is just a starting point, lots of custom tools you'll be buying, borrowing, or making It's all part of the fun!

Kits

I ended up not going with a kit, but rather purchased precisely what I wanted. It worked out pretty well since I got the upgraded items without having a bunch of economy tools or unnecessary tools from the kit. I can offer the following, but it is only my opinion.

1. Since all of the holes are final drill sized on the -14, is there any reason to upgrade to the Sioux air drill? How much drilling is left since all the holes are final sized?

Answer: I have a cheaper yellow pan American 2600 rpm and love it. The drill is used significantly less on the 14 than other models, but you still use it A LOT.

2. Would you add the longeron yoke and the and/or the 4" thin nose yoke for the pneumatic squeezer?

Answer, I have gotton by so far with only a modified 3" C-yoke, but am on the fence in regards to ordering a longeron yoke. You can make it work most of the time with different length dies.

3. Would you get the swivel flush rivet set since it already comes with the standard flush rivet set?

Answer, I have both the swivel and standard flush set. I actually prefer the standard set now that I can control the gun properly.

4. Would you get the adjustable set holder for the pneumatic squeezer?

Answer: the adjustable portion of any squeezer has been critical. With that said, I have gone through 3 economy rivet squeezers that have all failed for various reasons. I just bour the Cleveland "Main Squeeze" and feel it is worth the extra money. I have not yet used the pneumatic that I just bought last week, but figure it will come in handy when it is a lot of rivets or dimples while using the main squeeze for the low quantity tasks.

5. The kit comes with a tungsten bucking bar, would you get the steel bar assortment?

Answer: I have used the two tungsten bars (one rectangular and one with a 45 degree face) for 99% of the tasks. The only steel bar I have used is a flat piece of steel that I screwed to the table and the "special bucking bar" for the trailing edge spar in the tail.

6. How about the 1/4"-28 countersink cage

Answer: Countersink cage is critical. I have two and wish I had a third so I didn't have to reset the depth of my #30 and #40 countersinks on the few occasions that I use a different size.

Also, you don't need more than one sheetmetal snip (delete right and left cut) as long as you have a bandsaw (get a bandsaw with a metal cutting blade).

Thanks guys for the responses. My toolbox kit from Van's is supposed to arrive next Wednesday. On Thursday, I hope to start assembly of the kit. Assuming everything goes well and I'm comfortable with driving rivets, I plan on ordering the -14A tail kit and some tools the following week.

Cleaveland or Numatx?

Hi all,

Another question. Since I don't have any squeezers yet or really much in the way of aircraft tools, I am open to mostly anything. I'm carefully studying the squeezers and if I'm going with a normal pneumatic squeezer then it would be a Cleaveland brand. I have also been looking at the Numatx squeezer and it looks like a pretty sweet setup. I like the ability of using the Numatx as a mounted dimpler too and would get a machinist where I work to build the frame so I can use it as a dimpler or a squeezer.

Price wise, a Numatx is $775 while a Cleaveland is about $550. The DRDT-2 that I will buy IF I buy the Cleaveland is about $400. If I buy the metal to build the C-frame for the Numatx I'll have about $100 in material.

So the total for the Cleaveland and DRDT-2 is about $950. The total for the Numatx and metal to build the C-frame for it is about $875 to $900.

I guess what I looking for from you guys is the reassurance that if a person is buying a squeezer for the first time, a Numatx would be a good way to go. The cost difference between the 2 is negligible so that doesn't even factor in at this point.

What do you think guys? Those that have used the Numatx, would you still prefer it over the traditional Cleaveland style?

Thanks for the help all. It really helps a newbie like me.

Pneumatiq squeezer options

My two cents:

1. Numatx pushes the ram with equal pressure throughout the stroke, and does not require ram and set "stack height" adjustment to deliver setting pressure at the end of the stroke.
You can avoid the cost (minimal) and adjustment time (repeated?) of an adjustable set holder.

2. With Numatx you lift and place the yoke, inserted set(s), and a swivel fitting.
With a "Chicago Pneumatic" style pneumatic squeezer you lift and place all of the above, plus the body of the squeezer.
In my 3 months experience, I can move the Numatx in small spaces, and it's easy to hold in place. The CP is physically larger and heavier.
Numatx has an attached braided line; CP has an air line.
I am a first time pneumatic squeezer operator. I chose the Numatx based on size and weight, and have not used CP-style.

3. Numatx has a separate foot control.
This enables me to use both hands to place, align, and hold parts, and double check visually before I squeeze the rivet or dimple.
(This does not make riveting foolproof- just ask me how I know - but it helps.)

I did not purchase a kit per se. I bought part of a tool kit and eliminated the things I did not want.

Squeezer:
IMO--the only squeezer to go with is the Numatx squeezer. You won't regret getting it. the squeezer itself is very small and gets into tighter places. Plus it can be attached to a c-frame (that you have to build or have built). They also have had great customer serve. of all the tools I purchased this was the best one. I had the c-frame cut at a metal shop and welded by my father in-law. The only thing you must have made is the holder for the squeezer--it is not standard thickness metal. It has to be thinned.

You will need a longeron yoke. No hole would be nice, but I just put in pop rivets where I couldn't fit the squeezer or bucking bar (all Okayed by Van's). I also have a 3" and 4". The 3" is lighter for general use, but the 4" sure comes in handy.

Bucking bars:
Two tungsten bars are nice. I have these.
https://midwesttungsten.com/tungsten-bucking-bar-bb-6-1-33-lbs-angled-face-3-4-x-1-5-x-2/
https://midwesttungsten.com/tungsten-bucking-bar-bb-14-1-20-lbs-angled-face-0-63-x-0-75-x-3-99/ (mine is flat on both faces, but angled on one side and flat on the other would have been very handy).
you will need a few special thinner bar for a few spots. Plus you will need this:

http://www.cleavelandtool.com/Speci...14-Empennage/productinfo/BBRV10/#.XLNTvi2ZPfY

I assume that these should resell for nearly what you bought them for. They are nearly indestructible. Same goes for the yokes.

Counter sinkers:

I have 3. I should have purchased more, then set with the appropriate counter sinker (dimple or rivet), label, and forget. I am always reseting these.

Random thoughts.
Go to Cleaveland Tool and search RV-14 to see all the things that you will eventually purchase.

buy a canvas apron pouch. It is a great place to store things that tend to dissappear. Like center punch, all your dimple templates for setting counter sink cage. In addition, I for putting clecos, when you are putting them in and taking them out. Those little things are like ants, ever time you think you have them all off the floor you find 3 or 4 more.

Buy as big of a 60 gallon compressor if you have the space and the $$. split off the compressor and let down the pressure on 1 line for painting and squeezing rivets. Then 2-3 higher pressure lines--drill, pneumatic cleco gun (a must buy if you can find one), air grinders, etc.

not sure what is in the tools kits, but you will also need an assortment of reamers. If you look through the plans, they will what special tools you will need for a specific section.

You will need to build a rib flange straighter (I can send you a picture if you want--it brings the flanges to 90). The demurring tool in that package sucks. I have a better one. Plus a fluting tool (cleaveland part #500).

Vixen file (cleaveland FV10) to clean up the edges of the thick parts. I did not see this in the Isham kit.

edge forming tool (cleaveland EF60)

I really like the deburring tool from Cleaveland (1046)

get a high quality digital level that can be calibrated. I had to buy a second one since the first one couldn't be calibrate by me.

buy a digital torque calibrator to make sure your torque wrenches are calibrated well (maybe overkill). You will need an inch lb and a ft pound wrench. I also have beam style torque wrench to measure torque drag prior to setting with a regular torque wrench. Also, always store torque wrench set at min torque on wrench. Don't leave it set or completely unloaded.

Send me an email and I can send you a list of tools on an excellent spread sheet. I got the spreadsheet from Troy Grover at his building class. I have added some things to it. So although I am a first time builder, my tool list is from a very experienced builder.

just some of my thoughts and a lot more than you asked for.

ken

Hey guys,

Thanks for all of your help. You guys went above and beyond the call with the in depth explanations you have given. It really helps a noob like me and I really appreciate it.

I found this to be way better than a scotchbrite wheel. Picked it up at a local machine supply shop when acs shorted my order and didn't want to wait for a replacement to be shipped.
This is my first attempt at posting a pic, so if it doesn't work its a Norton Rapid Finish wheel.
Kerry

sorry, I'll try one more time, if this one doesn't work, sorry for wasting everyone's time with this post.

Hey thanks for that.
I appreciate it

Thanks for the link.

Countersink kit

Hey all,

I'm looking at buying some countersinks and wanted to make sure that this is what I need for the -14A. Is this the type of countersink I need? Thanks.

https://aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?id=133KIT

Thanks. My plan is to buy the countersink with the 4 bits and then buy 3 more countersinks so I can "set it and forget it".

You will be adjusting them. Sometimes it is to countersink for a rivet, sometimes it is to countersink for a dimpled skin and a rivet.

Kerry

I bought the Isham Tool Kit. I like it but I'd add a second #40 male dimple die as you have to modify one for the elevator trailing edge. After that it made some ugly marks on my parts so I had to buy a second one. Also I'd add a second #40 counter sink bit because you also have to modify the counter sink pilot when countersinking the elevator trailing edge.

Apart from that I really hate countersinking because the results are not really consistent - don't know if it's me or the tool.

Malte