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  #21  
Old 08-23-2010, 07:21 PM
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johngoodman johngoodman is offline
 
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For acrobatic pilots it makes sense, but the likelihood of a midair or engine failure over mountains is too small to justify a BRS. Chain mail makes sense when swimming with sharks, but it's not something you want to wear on a popular beach.

John
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  #22  
Old 08-24-2010, 09:19 AM
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About 10 hours ago and very close to my house.

This was right off the departure end of the runway and very heavily wooded. I never really thought a chute would help much in a departure, but it obviously did in this case. The structure is in pretty good shape and the pilot wasn't too bad off either.

http://www.khou.com/news/local/Pilot...101374779.html

Phil
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  #23  
Old 08-24-2010, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cnpeters View Post
...The Rans, whether by design or not, supported the plane in a straight nose down attitude...
As stated earlier, the plane wrapped around the chute lines. The guy was really lucky the canopy opened completely.

[quote=pierre smith;460439...I'm afraid of the "bandaid" syndrome that leads pilots to do stupid things because of the "I can always pull the handle" mentality, instead of steering clear of cumulo-nimbus or icing conditions, or not running out of fuel over the oceans or mountains...[/QUOTE]

The same thing happened when cars started sporting air bombs and anti-lock brakes. The NHTSA found that people tend to drive more recklessly, tailgating, speeding, etc., because they feel safer.

There have been a number of Cirrus accidents where the pilot got into to trouble to low to pull the chute. Mostly during approach to land. It seems that the safety numbers on this "safe" plane are coming under question. Unfortunately, I couldn't locate a good article on the possible reasons why so many SR20 and SR22s are going down.

As for me, I don't want any pyrotechnic device in my plane. Heck, I don't even want an air bomb in my car!
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  #24  
Old 08-24-2010, 09:46 AM
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PS. I found this article comparing an SR20/22 to Cessna’s. While completely different performance envelopes, the different in fatality rates is eye opening. Assuming that most of the accidents are due to loss of control, I wonder if the cleaner Cirrus is the reason.

Keep in mind, this was written by an attorney who might be looking to build a case for a lawsuit.
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  #25  
Old 08-24-2010, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N941WR View Post
. Heck, I don't even want an air bomb in my car!
I've often thought about "explosive devices" such as BSR chutes, and airbags............and if they were to go off prematurely. Just imagine an airbag in an airplane doing it's thing, when it isn't supposed too!

But five weeks ago, yesterday, I slammed straight into a good sized deer at 60 mph on my motorcycle, in the middle of the day. D##n, I sure would have liked some kind of a handle bar airbag!!!!!!!!!!! It's no fun as the mind races through a thought pattern in a split of a second, and wondering if this is your last second of mortality. And my mind did just that! After impact, the world & time did appear to slow down, as we often hear in accidents. It seemed like forever, to decelerate as I scraped along the highway for 50 yards. Thankfully, I had a full face helmet, but no leathers.

I read the NTSB reports as they come out three times a week, and all the followups which can be six to twelve months later. Without doubt, there are many cases, in which a ballistic chute could be a save. You can go to great lengths to minimize risk, but the best way is just to stay on the ground. However, I prefer the beauty of mountain landscapes from a higher viewpoint; and fly single engine, knowing the statistics are favorable for the prop to keep turning.

But there is always going to be that chance of a once in a lifetime event, where odds are not in your favor. Therefore, I believe that it will always be better to have a ballistic chute than not. Same goes for airbags & other protective devices. That second of life might come along in which your mind say's "jeeze I wish I had this !". You just never know..........until your turn comes up.

L.Adamson --- RV6A
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  #26  
Old 08-24-2010, 01:15 PM
bkthomps bkthomps is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N941WR View Post
Assuming that most of the accidents are due to loss of control, I wonder if the cleaner Cirrus is the reason.

Keep in mind, this was written by an attorney who might be looking to build a case for a lawsuit.
The cirrus was designed, and then they did spin testing and said, oh #!#@, the rudder is too small! They corrected this by adding a parachute

The marketing guys put their spin on it, and bam, a bug becomes a feature- the RV has sufficient rudder authority to recover from a spin, the parachute is overkill
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  #27  
Old 08-24-2010, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gimp2x View Post
The cirrus was designed, and then they did spin testing and said, oh #!#@, the rudder is too small! They corrected this by adding a parachute

The marketing guys put their spin on it, and bam, a bug becomes a feature- the RV has sufficient rudder authority to recover from a spin, the parachute is overkill
Actually. one of Cirrus founders, Alan Klapmeier, was in a mid-air in 1985. The other plane crashed, and the pilot was killed. The chute for the SR20 was planned to begin with.

Personally, I don't care what the naysayers on this forum say. Although I have no plans to install a chute on my RV, I still think it's a worthwhile safety device. There is no way that we can look at every aircraft accident that involves fatalities, and believe that a BRS type chute has no place in everyday aircraft transportation.

L.Adamson --- RV6A
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  #28  
Old 08-24-2010, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gimp2x View Post
The cirrus was designed, and then they did spin testing and said, oh #!#@, the rudder is too small! They corrected this by adding a parachute

The marketing guys put their spin on it, and bam, a bug becomes a feature- (snip)l
I'm sorry, but although this is a common misconception, it is simply untrue. The Cirrus has excellent rudder authority, and pretty conventional handling. I base this in 1100+ hours in an SR22 over the last 7 years.

The chute as an "alternative" method of spin certification was the quickest and cheapest route to obtain initial FAA certification, but the European authorities did not accept this. The airplane had to demonstrate spin recovery for certification in Europe and much of the rest of the world. It has very conventional spin recovery techniques.

I have stalled our SR22 probably a hundred times, and cumulatively spent hours in slow flight over the years. It isn't a 172, but the stall characteristics are better than most similar sized retracts I have much experience in (Bonanzas, Navion, Comanche 250 )
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  #29  
Old 08-24-2010, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N941WR View Post
Heck, I don't even want an air bomb in my car!
I didn't either....until I got into the first major collision that fired one in my face, and I walked away without a scratch.

It's along those lines, that I'm still working on such tough decisions of what safety equipment to build into the RV. What is useless weight? What might add more risk than remove? And, what will save my life?

Just as soon as I think something I think would never be helpful, a case comes up. But...we can't add the kitchen sink either.

...sorry...rambling while working on the plane planning...
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  #30  
Old 01-23-2020, 09:27 PM
Sue Sue is offline
 
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Default Chute

This reminds me years ago of the debate over
motorcycle helmets, “I would never wear a
stupid helmet because I can’t hear the cars
around me!” Or the “I would never wear a seat belt
because you could be trapped in the car and couldn’t
get out” myself I would put in a chute if
it was a little more economical and structurally
viable. I have been to the cirrus ground school
and seen the results of some of the handle pulls.
Makes you think a bit. Biggest problem is pulling
at to high of a speed or pulling to low.
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