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  #81  
Old 08-03-2018, 11:20 PM
jwyatt jwyatt is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Goodhue, MN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N282S View Post
ATIS: Please give us two or three more FISK ATIS phone lines. I sat for over an hour dialing and dialing to get the latest ATIS information via telephone.
Perhaps the LiveATC crew would be willing to add a channel for a simulcast of the arrival ATIS to provide an alternate means of access preflight.
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  #82  
Old 08-10-2018, 03:34 PM
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Arvey Fleur Arvey Fleur is offline
 
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Location: Sacramento, CA
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Another thumbs up on more ATIS access. Perhaps a text website with current ATIS transcription would best be able to handle the high ping rate.
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  #83  
Old 08-11-2018, 02:32 PM
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RV7Guy RV7Guy is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 2,818
Default Interesting perspective

I think I have an interesting perspective on the events on Saturday and Sunday. I fly the Bell 47's during AV. On Sat we have training and Sunday we start flying passengers, so I get to hear hours of the fur ball arrivals.

The arrival system usually works fine. However, this year the weather was bad for a lot of Friday, Saturday and Sunday morning. This was the real issue.

Here are some thoughts on possible changes.

1) ELIMINATE ALL MASS ARRIVALS ON SATURDAY AND SUNDAY. The mass arrival of Bonanza's on Sunday completely jacked up the arrivals sending a couple of hundred planes to alternate destinations. Couple that with a landing accident on 09 twenty minutes before schedule closure and it was a tough Sunday. Even heard on the radio by a pilot trying to get in but was kept away by the Bonanza's, "F'n Bonanza's, and I own one."

2. Open arrivals at 0600 on Friday, Saturday and Sunday. (Don't hate me Jeff)

3. Keep arrivals open till 2100 on Friday, Saturday and Sunday. (Don't hate me more Jeff)

4. Reduce the airshow time as mentioned. Seems to get longer every year.

5. Make the event Sunday through Saturday. I know the vendors would love this. Sunday, most of the airplanes are gone and the vendor areas are empty. Great time to do business with them though. Most are there on the first Sunday anyway. This would allow vendors to leave Sunday morning and get back to regular business on Monday. Make the Saturday night airshow the end of the event.

6. The FAA needs to have a team of people (3 pairs would work), to follow up on people who F up the arrival. Ramp check them and write them up if egregious. I think it was Sunday a V tailed Bonanza flew right over Pioneer in a nose up attitude, gear down, ready to fall out of the sky. I would have bet a paycheck the plane was going to crash. The plane continued at about 500' south bound over the ultralight area to who knows where. This guy needed to be talked to. I could go on on people who should have been talked to. I think word would get around!!

By the Grace of God there were no midairs. How? I've got no clue. There needs be some improvement. Averting disaster is getting tougher. "If it is predictable, it is preventable."
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  #84  
Old 08-11-2018, 04:33 PM
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Brantel Brantel is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Newport, TN
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Re: more ATIS or current conditions updates...:

I have found LiveATC to be very valuable in determining the current situation at Osh this year and in a the past. Sitting on the ground at a satellite airport with cell coverage I was able to get the ATIS and listen to the Fisk and tower controllers to know the most up to date info possible.

Helped me get out of Portage and into Osh after the field went VFR on Saturday afternoon about 16:45.

Listening to all three gives you a real picture of what is going on.
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  #85  
Old 08-11-2018, 05:53 PM
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scard scard is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cedar Park, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brantel View Post
Re: more ATIS or current conditions updates...:

I have found LiveATC to be very valuable in determining the current situation at Osh this year and in a the past. Sitting on the ground at a satellite airport with cell coverage I was able to get the ATIS and listen to the Fisk and tower controllers to know the most up to date info possible.

Helped me get out of Portage and into Osh after the field went VFR on Saturday afternoon about 16:45.

Listening to all three gives you a real picture of what is going on.
Exactly the same for us the last few years. LiveATC in an earbud while sitting elsewhere, timing our pounce before the rest of the crowd wherever we're parked (FLD), has worked well so far. Rumors are rampant at area staging locations as to the status of the field. Listening to Fisk allow someone past is priceless.
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  #86  
Old 08-13-2018, 12:05 PM
moosepileit moosepileit is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Floyds Knobs, IN
Posts: 294
Default 8 August Airventure Survey

Found a SurveyMonkey Airventure survey in my email dated 8 Aug. 20 minutes of likes/dislike rating and notations.

Might be worth your time. Covered everything but ATC directly, but you can expound in a few sections.
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  #87  
Old 08-13-2018, 12:22 PM
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roadrunner20 roadrunner20 is offline
 
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Location: Bay Pines, FL (based @ KCLW)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moosepileit View Post
Found a SurveyMonkey Airventure survey in my email dated 8 Aug. 20 minutes of likes/dislike rating and notations.

Might be worth your time. Covered everything but ATC directly, but you can expound in a few sections.
I contributed my .02 last week
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  #88  
Old 08-13-2018, 01:01 PM
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airguy airguy is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner20 View Post
I contributed my .02 last week
Me too. And every one of the "other comments" fields was filled out. They will definitely understand my point of view.
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  #89  
Old 11-15-2018, 05:36 PM
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Bruce Bruce is offline
 
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Default November 15 update

November 15, 2018 - A number of significant changes to the EAA AirVenture Oshkosh arrival procedures are being recommended by EAA to the FAA to create better staging and safety margins for incoming aircraft to Oshkosh. These recommendations are based on the annual review of air traffic operations and from feedback by pilots using the 2018 procedures.

“The weather situation on the weekend prior to AirVenture’s opening day last year revealed several areas where air traffic procedures could be improved,” said Sean Elliott, EAA’s vice president of advocacy and safety. “We included pilot feedback in the working group review we created this fall, with the group’s recommendations going to the FAA this month as the agency has final determination on air traffic procedures for AirVenture.”

The review working group included those with expertise in GA safety, homebuilt aircraft safety, air traffic control, and mass arrival processes. The group contained many members of EAA’s Safety Committee and various councils. It met weekly over the past several months to review current operations and opportunities for improvement.

The draft recommendations, which were briefed to EAA’s board of directors last week, encompass three areas to be addressed: procedure changes recommended to FAA, process improvements and education by EAA to pilots, and EAA and FAA working together to find innovative air traffic control methods for AirVenture.

“In 2018, weather systems during the three days prior to AirVenture’s opening day kept many pilots from making their final inbound flights to Oshkosh until the weather cleared on Sunday afternoon, July 22,” Elliott noted. “That brought a huge wave of inbound flights to Oshkosh in a short six-hour period that afternoon. While the controllers and ground personnel did yeomen’s work to park 3,000 aircraft within a six-hour period, there are ways to do it better.

“Added to that, water-saturated ground areas at Oshkosh after landing made arrivals more complex, as did mass arrival groups and a large number of aircraft that had extended holds. All of those factors were considered in the draft recommendations to FAA.”

Among the recommendations are:

Arrival Procedures (FAA Operations)

Creating a new arrival gate (VFR waypoint, GPS and visually identified) that is further out (see attached diagram) than Fisk in order to facilitate consistent spacing prior to arrival at Fisk.
A new depicted (GPS defined waypoints) VFR Fisk arrival overlay that is for marginal VFR weather (1,000- to 1,500-foot ceilings) operations. Aircraft that will be allowed to use this procedure must be ADS-B Out equipped.
A raised minimum ceiling for all other aircraft operations on the Fisk arrival to 1,500 feet AGL.
A procedure to address temporary airport closures and provide a “bail out” track that enables an orderly transition from the final inbound leg to KOSH to KFLD. Aircraft arriving KFLD along the defined route will either land at KFLD or be directed back to the initial for KOSH depending on airport closure status.
–The FAA should create a revised policy for mass arrivals that restricts the arrival day/time to the planned time only with limited ability to shift due to weather. If the arrival slot is unsuitable due to weather at the designated time (mass arrival group is airborne) of the slot, then the mass arrival group should split up and arrive via the normal NOTAM procedure.
EAA Process Improvements

Expand aircraft parking to the south and improve parking management strategies to maximize use of the space. By 2020, EAA will achieve a “no aircraft turned away” condition for general aviation camping parking, weather and ground water saturation concurring, and explore means (e.g., a potential reservation system or other incentives) to shift arrivals to days with lower volume.
An extensive educational campaign to highlight arrival informational tools, weather planning and preparedness, and best practices during arrival operations. Distribution will include a potential online training course (with incentives), Chapter Video Magazine, online webinars, EAA magazines, EFBs like ForeFlight, and other web resources. Member incentives for participation in training/education will be developed.
A text messaging arrival update tool for ATC that will be available to attendees.
Work with the FAA to create an overhead break protocol that enables ATC to determine if overhead operations can be authorized at any given time.
Encourage military aircraft to favor arrivals during air show waivered airspace times.
Joint FAA/EAA Actions

Progressively integrate new technologies (GPS, ADS-B, TIS-B, etc.) into the AirVenture arrival procedures and aircraft identification as a multi-year, phased initiative to enhance safety and increase capacity.
Education and incentive opportunities that may earn portions of WINGS credits.
“The input of pilots who flew the Oshkosh arrival in 2018 played a major role in these recommendations,” Elliott said. “We personally contacted nearly all of the pilots who sent input directly to us to better understand what they experienced and where the procedure could be improved.”

The recommendations will be forwarded to FAA officials for review by the end of November. Approved recommendations will be included in the AirVenture 2019 NOTAM. Additional input can be made through November 27 at feedback@eaa.org (please include your name and EAA member number with your communications).
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  #90  
Old 11-15-2018, 10:01 PM
airguy's Avatar
airguy airguy is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
“The input of pilots who flew the Oshkosh arrival in 2018 played a major role in these recommendations,” Elliott said. “We personally contacted nearly all of the pilots who sent input directly to us to better understand what they experienced and where the procedure could be improved.”
That's funny - they certainly didn't contact me, and I was one of those that sent input. I guess they believe they already know what I think.
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