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Flap position indicator in an RV12

bernsbm

Active Member
Friend
Confession... More than once I've been guilty of leaving my flaps down on takeoff while accelerating past 82 kts. I'd like to install a simple indicator on my Skyview display that would light up when flaps are down (similar to the canopy or spar pin indicators). I'd probably locate it near the RPM readout, as I check this several times on takeoff to confirm the engine is developing full power. Has anyone done this or something similar? Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

Barry
N12BB RV12 flying (~40 hours)
Mequon, WI
 
This is one reason I quit using flaps for takeoff. :) D180 here, sorry I can't help with the Skyview. A microswitch to tell you when the flaps are fully up would be pretty easy, but I don't know how to get that to display.
 
Barry-

I don't think adding a flap indicator will be all that hard. Section 7 of the Dynon SkyView System Instillation manual (version 14) shows how to do it ... in particular, page 7-72 shows an example of creating a contact sensor input. You will want to be creating a contact sensor .... much the same as the stall warning or canopy latch. If you look at the wiring diagrams the stall warning is wired to Pin 11 of the EMS module and the canopy latch is on Pin 12.

Pin 10 is vacant so that would be a good choice for adding your flap deployed warning indicator. Wiring would be done like the canopy micro switch where when the flap handle is moved, a ground is passed through the micro switch to pin 10 of the 37 pin WH-00020-1 ES-00057 female connector that plugs into the EMS module.

By performing the steps in section 7 of the SkyView Instillation manual to program pin 10, you will end up creating a configuration that can be saved as a .DFG file from the SkyView so you won't lose your settings moving forward. Below is a sample of that file that shows a NON-PROGRAMED Pin 10 along with the programmed Pins 11 and 12 (stall warning and canopy warning respectfully) for comparison.

Although I have not personally added any sensors to my RV-12 yet, this should help getting you moving in the right direction.

c37_p10={
valid=0
name=
id=
alarm_type=OFF
range={
max_display=30
min_display=0
range1_valid=1
range1_top=30
range1_bot=25
range1_name=R1
range1_color=RED
range2_valid=1
range2_top=25
range2_bot=20
range2_name=R2
range2_color=YELLOW
range3_valid=1
range3_top=20
range3_bot=10
range3_name=R3
range3_color=GREEN
range4_valid=1
range4_top=10
range4_bot=5
range4_name=R4
range4_color=YELLOW
range5_valid=1
range5_top=5
range5_bot=0
range5_name=R5
range5_color=RED
}
show_units=1
}

c37_p11={
valid=1
name=STALL
id=CONTACT
alarm_type=OFF
range={
max_display=30
min_display=0
range1_valid=0
range1_top=2
range1_bot=0
range1_name=PUSH
range1_color=RED
range2_valid=0
range2_top=5
range2_bot=2
range2_name=
range2_color=GREEN
range3_valid=0
range3_top=20
range3_bot=10
range3_name=R3
range3_color=BLACK
range4_valid=1
range4_top=5
range4_bot=2
range4_name=
range4_color=BLACK
range5_valid=1
range5_top=2
range5_bot=0
range5_name=PUSH
range5_color=RED
}
show_units=1
}

c37_p12={
valid=1
name=CANOPY
id=CONTACT
alarm_type=OFF
range={
max_display=5
min_display=0
range1_valid=1
range1_top=5
range1_bot=2.5
range1_name=OPEN
range1_color=RED
range2_valid=1
range2_top=2.5
range2_bot=0
range2_name=CLSD
range2_color=GREEN
range3_valid=0
range3_top=20
range3_bot=10
range3_name=R3
range3_color=GREEN
range4_valid=0
range4_top=10
range4_bot=5
range4_name=R4
range4_color=YELLOW
range5_valid=0
range5_top=5
range5_bot=0
range5_name=R5
range5_color=RED
}
show_units=1
}
 
Last edited:
It would be nice if the D-180 was smart enough to see added flap switch and marry it to >80 knots airspeed to give both visual and audible warnings. Oh well, save money for eventual SkyView upgrade...
 
I also added a micro switch like Joe to the flaperon mixer arm and wired it to C37, pin 9. I added a flap "widget" and get "FLAPS OVERSPEED" now when I exceed 81 knots with the flaps not up. (Skyview Touch)


c37_p9={
valid=1
name=FLAPS
id=POSITION
alarm_type=OFF
range={
max_display=5
min_display=0
range1_valid=1
range1_top=5
range1_bot=2.5
range1_name=OFF
range1_color=YELLOW
range2_valid=1
range2_top=2.5
range2_bot=0
range2_name=ON
range2_color=BLACK
range3_valid=0
range3_top=20
range3_bot=10
range3_name=R3
range3_color=GREEN
range4_valid=0
range4_top=10
range4_bot=5
range4_name=R4
range4_color=YELLOW

Mitch
 
It would be nice if the D-180 was smart enough to see added flap switch and marry it to >80 knots airspeed to give both visual and audible warnings.
Oh, but it is. Well maybe not as smart as the SkyView, but there is a workaround. Since there is a big red spar warning light on the instrument panel, the spar alarm on the D-180 is redundant. Re-purpose the D-180 Spar alarm to serve as Flap alarm. See page 6-18 of the FlightDEK-D180 Installation Guide for setting contact alarms. Purchase an airspeed switch and wire it in series with a flap position limit switch. The flap switch should be closed when the flaps are down and the airspeed switch should be closed at airspeeds above 82 knots. The airspeed switch can be calibrated using a homemade manometer. The switch should be adjusted to close when 4.4 inches of water pressure (82 knots) is applied to the high port. See THIS picture of my D-180 with "flap" displayed.
 
Last edited:
I have been flying with an RV12 Flap overspeed alarm for over a year now, and still occasionally forget to raise the flaps.
I am away In China now, and cannot attach a photo, but I will post details of my setup when I get home.
Note that you do not have to add a "FLAPS" widget, but for setup, it is useful to add one to the 100% EMS screen only.
The audio message "Flaps Overspeed" is already available in the RV12 Skyview software.
 
RV-12 Flap Over-speed Alarm

As promised before, here is some more info about my RV-12 installation
The Dynon SkyView gives an audible alarm (“Flaps Over-speed”) when the flaps are not fully up and the airspeed is over 82 knots.
A micro-switch is activated by the Flap Lever arm on the Aileron control bell-crank, which is below the pilots seat.
The micro-switch grounds EMS input “GP5” (in the manual as “Serial 5”).
This is connected to Pin 9 of the 37 pin connector on the EMS.
The operation of the switch can be checked by means of a “Flaps Widget” on the 100% size EMS screen.

Software changes from the standard SkyView version:

1. Setup Menu > EMS Setup > Sensor Input Mapping > Sensor Setup
EMS c37_p9 set to: POSITION POSITION FLAPS

2. Check that there is a line in the User Config dfg file:
“audio_sound_flaps_overspeed=SOUND_MODE_VOICE”

3. Change Widget from “WIDGET_CONTACT” to “WIDGET_FLAPS”.

4. Setup Menu > HW Calibration > EMS Calibration> FLAPS Calibration
You can choose two calibration positions: Say 0 and 20 degrees

257kbc3.jpg

2q3vtwi.jpg
 
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Ray Allen Position Indicator

I added a Ray Allen Position Indicator to my flap control arm and it will send the information to the Garman G3Touch and show the position of the Flaps
The Sensor wires to pins 30,31,32 on the GEA 24 ( the sensor is about $35.00 ).

You can also add a switch to one of the Discrete inputs on the GEA 24 0n on pin 40 ,41,42 or 43 and it will can send a output to the master caution on pin 44.

SkyView may have a similar system.

Joe Dallas
 
Am I missing something here or am I the only RV12 driver that never uses flaps on takeoff? I mean the thing just about jumps into the air. Just sayin.
dick seiders
 
Am I missing something here or am I the only RV12 driver that never uses flaps on takeoff? I mean the thing just about jumps into the air. Just sayin.
dick seiders

Put in one notch of flaps...and you'll be even more impressed!! But I hear you; also, it precludes from busting through "Flap Over speed"! Especially if all you use is a nice surfaced..long runway. Soft/grass strip, use your flaps to destress your landing gear.
 
Last edited:
I added a Ray Allen Position Indicator to my flap control arm and it will send the information to the Garman G3Touch and show the position of the Flaps
The Sensor wires to pins 30,31,32 on the GEA 24 ( the sensor is about $35.00 ).

You can also add a switch to one of the Discrete inputs on the GEA 24 0n on pin 40 ,41,42 or 43 and it will can send a output to the master caution on pin 44.

SkyView may have a similar system.

Joe Dallas

Joe...mind sharing part #s and some pics (if you have them). Sounds like a good mod.

I'm just finishing my "Bender Baffle" and VR relocate to fwf (right of original position w/air scoop/enlarged air feed to regulator enclosure) and change to SH w/step voltage charge cycle.
 
Additional information for those adding a flaps widget to Skyview EFIS.

I attempted to add a position indicator to my Dynon Skyview Classic in my RV-12 per directions posted by RDupee. He stated [connect to Pin 9 of the 37 pin connector on the WH00045 ?Options harness? that plugs into the AV 5000]

In my case, I found that that Pin 9 on the options harness and the AV5000 does not connect to the EMS Module and therefore it would not work for me.

I ended up connecting my flaps position limit switch wire directly to the EMS C37-9 pin, bypassing the AV5000. This allowed me to complete the task successfully.
 
Ernie, you are correct.
I apologize for the error in my previous post above. Thanks for spotting the mistake.
In my Skyview system, the wire from the Flaps micro-switch goes directly to pin 9 on the EMS 37 pin connector.
 
POSITION SENSOR

The Ray Allen Company

POS-5, POS-7, POS-12 ... POSITION SENSOR

http://www.rayallencompany.com/products/indsens.html

Joe Dallas





Joe...mind sharing part #s and some pics (if you have them). Sounds like a good mod.

I'm just finishing my "Bender Baffle" and VR relocate to fwf (right of original position w/air scoop/enlarged air feed to regulator enclosure) and change to SH w/step voltage charge cycle.
 
For those interested in adding a flap position sensor to a RV-12 ULS setup with the Garmin G3X, here's how I did it:

1. Purchase a Ray Allen position sensor. I used the POS-12, but you could use any of them. The difference with them is how far the "throw" of the sensor arm extends.

2. Fabricate a hat bracket to mount the position sensor. I added nutplates so that the position sensor could be easily serviced. Also fabricate an extension arm with a 90 degree twist. The length of the extension arm, and the height of the hat bracket will depend on the position sensor you use and the related "throw" of the sensor arm. Here's what mine looked like:

jac7co.jpg


3. Attach the hat bracket to the seat rib that is to the right of the flaperon mixer arm. Attach the twisted extension arm to the flaperon mixer arm. Attach the position sensor to the hat bracket. Connect the position sensor to the twisted flaperon mixer arm extension with remote control airplane flight control rod and servo arm hardware. It should look something like this:

2z7g67t.jpg


***The key to the entire installation is to ensure that the throw of the connection to the flaperon mixer arm matches the distance that the arm of the position sensor extends. ***

4. Wire the position sensor. I grounded the blue wire coming off of the position sensor to a bolt on a seat rib, then connected the orange wire to pin 30 on the P244 bus on the GEA 24 and the green wire to pin 31 on the P244 bus on the GEA 24; see Figure 30-2.3 for the flap position sensor wiring example in the G3X Touch Install Manual. Calibrate the switch on the POS 5 discrete input per section 35.4.27.16.1. of the install manual, which is similar to how you calibrated the trim sensor on the original G3X Touch setup.

4. Unfortunately, Garmin does not have a way to link a master caution for flap overspeed if the flaps are deployed above 82 kts. Hopefully, that is something they will consider in a future update.
 
This is definitely my next mod....tired of flying for 20/30 minutes wondering why cruise speed is limited...then getting a grin from my buddy when I say ?Oh Crap? you didn?t see this.
 
When I do use flaps for takeoff I almost always have them raised before the end of the runway. It's not always a guarantee, though. I have just developed the habit of glancing out along the wing whenever I reduce power after takeoff, just to make doubly sure. The D180 isn't as flexible anyway.
 
Where do I find the file to enter this code into?

Where do I find the file to enter this code into?

I also added a micro switch like Joe to the flaperon mixer arm and wired it to C37, pin 9. I added a flap "widget" and get "FLAPS OVERSPEED" now when I exceed 81 knots with the flaps not up. (Skyview Touch)


c37_p9={
valid=1
name=FLAPS
id=POSITION
alarm_type=OFF
range={
max_display=5
min_display=0
range1_valid=1
range1_top=5
range1_bot=2.5
range1_name=OFF
range1_color=YELLOW
range2_valid=1
range2_top=2.5
range2_bot=0
range2_name=ON
range2_color=BLACK
range3_valid=0
range3_top=20
range3_bot=10
range3_name=R3
range3_color=GREEN
range4_valid=0
range4_top=10
range4_bot=5
range4_name=R4
range4_color=YELLOW

Mitch
 
I owned a Cessna 150 for years and never used flaps on takeoff except for soft field practice. With the possible exception of bush flying (or maybe grass fields), under what conditions would you need flaps on takeoff in an RV-12? Just curious.
 
I am based on a private grass strip and use one notch of flaps for take off. No flaps on take off when operating off a hard surface.
 
I just put a switch onto the flap-Y, that connects a red LED. I have to learn a lot about engineering the software of my MGL-EFIS, and this works - perhaps better, for one more item on my 10" screen is just one item: a red Led next to it means ATTENTION. As a matter of fact I put a red one for open cockpit and a green one for closed wing-pins as well. You can see them left of the left screen.
 
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