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Wheel landing techniques

uk_figs

Well Known Member
Friend
Been 3 pointing my -7 for the last 5 years since I finished it but trying to learn how to wheel land and basically I suck at wheel landings. Seems like the gear springiness makes it difficult to make the first touch stick without perfect form and timing.
I do not have the gear leg dampers, I have the old expanding foam in the fairings approach but even without the dampers I feel that I should be able to wheel land consistently so am looking for some tips from the experts.

At this time I am trying to fly the pattern at the formation flight numbers which is 80 mph on final and I normally cross the numbers at 75 mph power off, I have tried the tail wheel low pop-up approach and the addition of some power to check the descent rate but I still seem to bounce and enter the dreaded porpoise and go-around scenario.

Some tips, techniques, site pictures or general guidance would be appreciated, will be doing another dozen or so landings tomorrow to try to figure this out:confused:
 
wheel landings

Some aircraft lend themselves to wheel landing and some seem to be easier to 3-point and some don't care. I would not do 3-pointers in a DC-3 or single otter or globe swift. RV's are probably in the third class but until you've done a few it's hard to get your head around landing with the stick not back and holding it back after landing.
Try flying down the runway a few inches above the ground without touching down. Sooner or latter you will accidently land and you can then pull off any power and perhaps move the stick slightly forward. Do not move the stick forward unless the mains are on the ground.
 
I have also been having trouble with consistent wheel landings on my -8. I did transition on a -7 so know what you mean about the springy gear.

Along with a "touch" of power in the flare, I recently tried a suggestion of trimming to keep some back pressure on the stick, and releasing a bit at touch down rather than checking forward. Went from one smooth landing in 3 to 5 smooth out of 6 so it helped me a lot... Seems quicker to release, than to actually move the stick..

Quite often if I blow a wheel landing, I'll give it a shot of power and convert it to a 3 point, unless its really bad then I just go around...

Have fun...you'll get it...
 
Ideas

I usually put in some down trim coming down final so when the mains touch I can just release some backpressure to pin it, rather than pushing. Seems a bit easier. Also I try to put one wheel down first (usually the right one for some reason), which helps 'slow down the sequence of events.' Lastly, if I do porpoise on initial contact, and it's anythine more than a few inches, I instantly transition to a three point attitude and use power to plant a (hopefully) reasonable three pointer.

There are some great and lengthy threads here on this topic, and all of 'my ideas' were borrowed from someone else. A great aspect of a taildragger, IMO, is that really great landings are more elusive and thus more rewarding. It's a feature not a bug!

-jon
 
Thoughts in common

I have also been having trouble with consistent wheel landings on my -8. I did transition on a -7 so know what you mean about the springy gear.

Along with a "touch" of power in the flare, I recently tried a suggestion of trimming to keep some back pressure on the stick, and releasing a bit at touch down rather than checking forward. Went from one smooth landing in 3 to 5 smooth out of 6 so it helped me a lot... Seems quicker to release, than to actually move the stick..

Quite often if I blow a wheel landing, I'll give it a shot of power and convert it to a 3 point, unless its really bad then I just go around...

Have fun...you'll get it...

Hi Ron,

In the time it took me to draft my post, you posted exactly the same stuff! Sounds like reasonable advise!

-jon
 
Figs,

Working on same problem.

Level or tail high
Release pressure
Power off
Push forward--hold--fly tail down

Sounds easy----I still can't get it either.

Boomer
 
What I typically recommend is to make an approach and not plan on landing. Just fly it low and slow down the runway until the wheels touch, then power up and go around for another try.

Do that a few times until you get the feel of it and get used to the view.

On take off, run it on the mains for a little bit, again to get used to the sight picture.

When you are ready, try a full landing.

One trick that I do from time-to-time is to feel for the runway with one wheel, typically the right one.
 
Figs,

I flew a Quickie II for 5 years, wheels at the very end of the canard, worst than a diving board, drop one foot.. bounce two feet back up. How many RV's have gear leg stiffeners? I do and it most certainly help!! My two cents!!

Don
 
Been 3 pointing my -7 for the last 5 years since I finished it but trying to learn how to wheel land and basically I suck at wheel landings. Seems like the gear springiness makes it difficult to make the first touch stick without perfect form and timing.
I do not have the gear leg dampers, I have the old expanding foam in the fairings approach but even without the dampers I feel that I should be able to wheel land consistently so am looking for some tips from the experts.

At this time I am trying to fly the pattern at the formation flight numbers which is 80 mph on final and I normally cross the numbers at 75 mph power off, I have tried the tail wheel low pop-up approach and the addition of some power to check the descent rate but I still seem to bounce and enter the dreaded porpoise and go-around scenario.

Some tips, techniques, site pictures or general guidance would be appreciated, will be doing another dozen or so landings tomorrow to try to figure this out:confused:

Wish I could 3 point my 7, we should trade theories!

Is your 7's prop fixed or C/S?

My 7 has a fixed Catto and your speeds sound about right, with plenty of runway I use 72-74 knts on final for wheel landings. 60-65 knts for a tailwheel low wheelie.

I think a slightly steeper approach makes wheelies easier, harder to drag it in low with power on and make a decent wheelie.
-Try leaving in 50 rpm instead of pulling the throttle to idle.
-Think of it more as a level off instead of a flare and try to round out and level off as close to the runway as possible. Hold the level attitude for about 1.5-2.5 seconds, arrest any descent you can without changing the attitude/sight picture. Easy to over work yourself and the airplane at this step, minimize control inputs as much as possible after the level off.
-let the mains touch down with little to no sink rate before the tail starts dropping and the sight picture starts resembling a 3 point.
-once the mains touch bring the stick forward lightly just enough to pin the mains on the runway

Good luck!
 
I have 115 landings in the 8 since first flight on June 16. Most are wheel landings.

Seems like the worst bad habit to overcome is flairing too high. If I talk to myself on final - take it lower, take it lower, take it lower - I do and it always works out better. Just ease off the power and as soon as the mains squeak on, a touch of forward stick and it is like glued to the runway. Its easy on a calm day, not so easy when the wind is changing direction and speed at the same time. Worst stuff to deal with is vertical, swirling drafts on short final. It almost no fun.

The worst scenario is making power, glide angle, and speed changes the last 50 feet. A constant, stable approach always gives you a better chance to put it on neatly.

Practice, practice, practice. If I don't fly for 2 weeks, its like starting over. The dumb old habits creep back in and have to be over come.
 
Its easy on a calm day, not so easy when the wind is changing direction and speed at the same time. Worst stuff to deal with is vertical, swirling drafts on short final. It almost no fun.

Drat...now you've gone and jinxed me...

For some reason I seem to be able to land better when it's really crappy out. I guess I'm concentrating more.

Another factor seems to be varying c/g due to differing passenger weights. I'll get used to landing solo, then take up some friends (or vice versa) and impress them by bouncing down the runway. At least the c/g thing is my story and I'm sticking to it.

Actually the trimming forward trick seems to help with that too, because you can trim to the same pressure on the stick to give a more consistent starting point...
 
What I do in my Rocket is similar to the other advice given - I keep the power on at ~1700 rpm (CS Prop) and fly it down the runway till the wheels touch, then a bit of forward stick and it stays. Now back the power off and let the tail settle. Eats up a bit of runway, but can normally squeak it on this way.

Shorter runway I will 3-point it, remembering what someone said once - "don't worry if your airplane skips a little, it just means it's happy!"
 
One trick that I do from time-to-time is to feel for the runway with one wheel, typically the right one.
This. Oddly enough I find it more natural to feel with the left wheel, but that could just be because that seems to be the prevailing crosswind direction on the "usual" runway at my home airport.
 
Rotsa Ruck!

I learned in a C-140. I could bounce that thing over a 2 story building!

Then, I figured it out.

You can use a normal approach speed, flap setting, and power as needed.

But first, you gotta know where the ground is: you HAVE TO KNOW when the tires are 3-4" off the pavement, or grass, or dirt...you get what I mean.

So, get the ship properly aligned, in a slightly tail-low position, at 3-4"AGL, and release some back pressure. Pull the power to idle if not already at idle. Done.

It's no more difficult than that. Works in all sizes of t/w airplanes. It even works in a 140!

Carry on!
Mark
 
I learned in a C-140. I could bounce that thing over a 2 story building!

Then, I figured it out.

You can use a normal approach speed, flap setting, and power as needed.

But first, you gotta know where the ground is: you HAVE TO KNOW when the tires are 3-4" off the pavement, or grass, or dirt...you get what I mean.

So, get the ship properly aligned, in a slightly tail-low position, at 3-4"AGL, and release some back pressure. Pull the power to idle if not already at idle. Done.

It's no more difficult than that. Works in all sizes of t/w airplanes. It even works in a 140!

Carry on!
Mark

I wheel land my 8 almost exclusively and agree with the above. I've found the key is to let her down slowly, stay level, and look as far down the runway, or even beyond the runway, as possible.
 
Been 3 pointing my -7 for the last 5 years since I finished it but trying to learn how to wheel land and basically I suck at wheel landings. Seems like the gear springiness makes it difficult to make the first touch stick without perfect form and timing.
I do not have the gear leg dampers, I have the old expanding foam in the fairings approach but even without the dampers I feel that I should be able to wheel land consistently so am looking for some tips from the experts.

At this time I am trying to fly the pattern at the formation flight numbers which is 80 mph on final and I normally cross the numbers at 75 mph power off, I have tried the tail wheel low pop-up approach and the addition of some power to check the descent rate but I still seem to bounce and enter the dreaded porpoise and go-around scenario.

Some tips, techniques, site pictures or general guidance would be appreciated, will be doing another dozen or so landings tomorrow to try to figure this out:confused:

Figs, I'll be asking you and everybody else tomorrow in ground school if you are the master of your aircraft. There is only one answer. Yes, you're safety pilot will bark if you get too slow, but nobody is going to complain about 75 over the numbers.
 
Hi Figgs,
My procedure for wheel landings my 7:

  1. Zero to 15 degrees of flaps max.
  2. Carry some power. Not sure how much w/ fixed pitch but I use 1200 to 1400 rpm with my CS pulled all the way out max pitch so I don't slow down too fast.
  3. Do not put in down pitch trim. In fact trim it up.
  4. Try to keep the fuselage level or very slightly tail low.
  5. Skim over the runway inching my way down. Almost trying hard not to land. Rate of descent must be near zero.
  6. Reduce throttle very gradually
  7. Try to put one main down slightly before the other. It seems to transfer some of the bounce to the other main versus a complete relaunch.
  8. Do not try and pin it on.
  9. When the mains kiss the ground just ever so slightly release back pressure in small increments. Then keep the tail up with forward pressure.

If I pull it off it is the the greatest feeling and a smile maker every time.
I nail about half of them when I try. The rest get converted to 3 pointers.
I nailed a squeaker during a night landing awhile back and even Carey thought it was pretty cool and she is a tough critic.
I'm still learning... Pick a no / light wind evening or morning and have fun!
 
Seems like there are about as many ways to describe how to wheel land as there are tailwheel pilots, huh Fig? The truth is, if you are truly trying polish a flying maneuver - or trying to figure one out, the quickest way is usually to find a good instructor to spend an hour with you to watch what you are doing and coach you to better performance. So long as you're not working on a rating, that doesn't have to be a CFI - just someone who you respect that has the skill you want to learn and can help you troubleshoot what you're doing.

Read all the techniques you want - but you'll learn it quicker with an observe/coach/instructor.
 
inputs appreciated

Thanks for the inputs, tried some of the approaches yesterday but the conditions were not ideal with a gusting 20KT direct crosswind at the practice airport but it did lead to the suggestion of one wheel touching first which seemed to help me be more consistent in "sticking" versus bouncing (in this case due to the xwind it was the left wheel). I also practiced the driving it down the runway approach to try to nail the sight picture.

The nice thing about the RV is that a touch of power makes it fairly easy to convert the wheel landing bounce into a 3 point landing and a fistfull of power gets you flying quickly to go-around if you dont like the landing :)

The funny thing was that after practicing for about an hour with very mixed results when I got back to my home base the wind was howling and gusting (Oklahoma :)) and I was hot on short final and greased on the best wheel landing of the day, go figure!

I agree with the dual input and in fact have had someone with me to provide input for the last couple of practice sessions and I plan on some more, it seems to mostly comes down to the timing of the touchdown and sticking the wheel(s).

Again thanks for the suggestions, more practicing means more flying:)
 
...

and greased on the best wheel landing of the day, go figure!

...

Great news! Soon you won't even think about it.

One other trick that helps on gusty/bumpy days is to pump the rudder peddles ever so slightly. This works like a yaw dampener and can smooth out the bumps. You can even do it when you add in rudder (and aileron) to straighten the plane before touchdown.
 
I am just starting to be consistent on my wheel landings as well, and yes, it has taken longer than I thought it would.

For me.. If you get going too slow and the tail starts to drop, the tail becomes less forgiving to bounces. Keeping the speed up at the final stages gives less of a bounce if you touch the surface with more downward speed than you wanted. Sometimes you can come in level with higher speed and bobble around like crazy without bouncing back up, then apply forward pressure as necessary and it sticks right away.

Also, I think RVs in general are much more sensitive to turbulence than other airplanes. Smooth days are significantly easier for practicing wheel landings. In fact I just downright don't like them in turbulent conditions.. Need to keep working on that..

Thx
 
I too recently started trying to learn wheel landings. The thing that really helped me was the moment you touch down, pop the stick forward to stick the mains. Before I started "popping" the stick forward, I was applying forward pressure too slowly, thus I'd get in a pio. Using this technique, I was able to consistently have good wheel landings on only my 5th attempt.
 
I too recently started trying to learn wheel landings. The thing that really helped me was the moment you touch down, pop the stick forward to stick the mains. Before I started "popping" the stick forward, I was applying forward pressure too slowly, thus I'd get in a pio. Using this technique, I was able to consistently have good wheel landings on only my 5th attempt.

That's kind of how I do it.

Flew today after no fly for three weeks and it stayed right there with a little forward stick just as it touched, approach speed was 65 knots with power and full flaps. The airplane was stopped on the hard surface for a 180 about 2/3rds down 2200' of runway, the grass being frozen, rough and slippery.

Even with the springy geared RV-6, it won't bounce if you're a bit aggressive on the forward stick.
 
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