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Buyers Remorse

DarinFred

Active Member
Well, I just spent a **** load of money on an Avery Tool Kit, Pneumatic Squeezer, DRDT-2, and an empennage kit...plus quit a bit getting the shop together. Other than buying a vehicle, it my biggest purchase yet! Does the buyer's remorse go way after you crack open the empennage kit and start riveting?

Jay
 
If you are getting buyer's remorse now...you are in trouble...

Seriously though...I've got it a few times, but with tools, you'll always be glad to get another one. You can keep them forever, and most likely you'll use them again, for repairs, personal projects, helping others, etc.

Just be careful when you loan them out! I've lost quite a few from people who "forgot" to return them and I forgot who I loaned them to.

Buyers remorse really sucks when you have to buy a new canopy....
 
Hi Jay,
I see that you were up at 12:44 Ayem, probably brewing over this decision but don't even go there! To a degree, I believe that most, if not all of us, go through something similar in the beginning. Trust me/us, the decisions you just made put you in a very small percentile of the population, among a few who said, "Yes, I can do this because I really WANT to do this." A few years down the road and the tool purchase will have long been forgotten and some of them will have been used to help rivet a neighbor's aluminum boat from leaks and so on. Enjoy the trip cause it's fixin' to be a good one,
Regards, :)
 
Hey Jay,

There will be a moment, and all those already flying know what I'm talking about, when you are past all the nervousness and test phase period and such. Just you and your plane in the morning with nobody around in that still morning air. You'll glance down at your hands - hands with some scars on them - having long since forgotten the exact amount you spent on the project. The morning will be 'just right'.

A thin smile will come across your face as the sun rises and you will quitely mouth the words "It was worth every penny." I've yet to meet a builder that hasn't experienced this - myself included.

Best,
Doug
 
Actually William, it's a good thing you got rid of that one before someone pointed out that it has not one, but TWO nose wheels. :)
 
pbesing said:
If you are getting buyer's remorse now...you are in trouble...

actually, Paul is right about this. If you don't have the "blind passion" burning desire at this stage, you will have nightmares when you approach engine and instrument panel.

the tail kit is designed to flush out a person's determination and desire. if you decide it's not for you, you can always sell the tools.

these are big projects with lots of little frustrations and expenses along the way. the end is SO WORTH the effort it's hard to describe. but be realistic about the build process because it WILL be a lot of work even with an excellent kit like Van's. be prepared for long stretches of inactivity because life WILL get in the way. once you start, don't "force" yourself to build if you are frustrated or in doubt. take a breather and you'll find your way back to it.

2 pieces of advice for maintaining sanity & marriage:
1) given what you said, make SURE you order a quick-build.
2) NEVER set a firm "date" for completion....it won't happen. tell yourself (and everyone who asks) that "it'll be done when it's done."

Good luck! start banging those rivets!
 
NEVER set a firm "date" for completion....it won't happen. tell yourself (and everyone who asks) that "it'll be done when it's done."


Whenever I heard the question "When will it fly?", the response was, "probably at about 60 mph".
 
The first decision you need to make is to spend $50-80K on an airplane. After you've done that, every purchase is just part of that total and isn't too bad.

Don't start if you haven't decided to go all the way. You might end up with $30K worth of airplane parts and an empty wallet.
 
Sam Buchanan said:
Whenever I heard the question "When will it fly?", the response was, "probably at about 60 mph".
Excellent! Wish I had used that the 200-300 times I heard the question.

Back to the point, maybe already made, but you feel remorse now then I'm not sure you've gone the right direction.

I never regretted one dollar spent on my plane. Did some of the purchases sting a little? Yep. Caused some concern a few times. But I never felt remorse. My plane has brought me more rewards than anything material thing ever has in my life by far.

There's tremendous satisfaction having those UPS shipments there waiting on me when I got home. Heck, the UPS guy knew me so well he was still asking me how my plane was doing 3-4 years after I finished it!

No regrets, ever.
 
No remorse

For me the hard part is placing the order, or writing the check. It seems once that's done, I totally forget about the money, and never look back. It's pretty weird.
 
Get out now!

I didn?t get the 'punched in the gut' feeling until I plunked down the funds for the engine.

You are going to have a lot of sleepless nights if you are already hurting. It?s going to be like that movie Ground Hog Day but with remorse. You may want to consider a flying RV. You will definitely have that sinking feeling but you will only have it once rather than spread out over years. You can also console yourself by flying. :)

There are a lot more costs with getting a project finished than you budgeting for, I can guarantee it. I hate to be a downer but this might not be right for you. I wish you the best of luck.
 
Woohoo!

Well, the two packages came by Fedex today...now that I have the tail in hand, I have no "remorse". So giddyup!
 
I can honestly say I've never felt buyers remorse. I look forward to every new arrrival of parts and tools. I know if I finish this plane I will get to fly it as long as I want and still get every penny back that I spent. I make every effort to do quality work and will have the plane painted by a professional to make sure I have a plane that will have maximum resale value. Who knows, in a few years I may have to build an RV-12 to stay in the game. I am finishing my SB wings now and the fuselage will ship July 3. Ain't life grand!
 
You gotta be kidding!

Buyers remorse is a smoke signal to people like me that a bargain buy is months away! I had remorse the day I moved out of the frat house, the day I sold my 73 drop top Vette(Currently have an 03 50th Anniversary Coupe, but I have remorse for not buying the convertible), the day I sold my Mooney, the day I sold my Lancair, even the day I bought a big chunk of coal mounted in a platinum setting(just kidding, honey), but never, ever when spending hard earned moola on toys! Money spent on food and toys does not count against you in the final tax return of life.

If you feel bad now, go out to e-panel builder, design a 50K panel. After you look at it, call me and I will buy some of your tools for 60 cents on the dollar.

This whole thread should be deleted as bunk!

BTW Doug I left out all of the normal words we use in Georgia to describe this type of whining!

Sorry for the rant but Cessna 150s fly cheap, RVs fly fast and sleek!

FWIW! TARNATIONS! Doug, can I say that? It is straight from Yosimite Sam.
 
Hard Knox said:
Buyers remorse is a smoke signal to people like me that a bargain buy is months away...If you feel bad now, go out to e-panel builder, design a 50K panel. After you look at it, call me and I will buy some of your tools for 60 cents on the dollar...This whole thread should be deleted as bunk...BTW Doug I left out all of the normal words we use in Georgia to describe this type of whining

I'd say at best you're being way too hard on this guy. At worst, I'd say you're being downright insulting. Building a plane is a huge undertaking and only a fool would be free of any misgivings.
 
I think I know exactly how you feal, I feal remorse everytime money comes out of my wallet, even for a set of dimple dies. But every time you spend some time on your project, you step back to take a look at it and there's just no price tag to put on that fealing of accomplishment. And suddenly there's what looks to be an airplane in your garage!! The road has been long, but worth every penny and minute I've put into it.
 
Now Steve!

California Steve:

As one from the right coast, with very thick skin, I remember the old addage that a fool and his money are soon parted, but there is also the other old addage that you can't take it with you. But many would believe that God looks after fools and those of us that fly, because if man were meant to fly he would have been born with wings.

Hard, you bet! No insult intended, just a kick in the bottom! This aint no RC hobby. You can't fly safe by cutting corners on building, training or maintaining a RV. If the cost of a few tools and a tail are upsetting, the cost of building is only the initiation fee to the club. The cost of ownership(gas, parts, maintenance, upgrades, insurance, hangar rent, etc.) will bleed one dry. This is an expensive commitment that I've seen successfully done two ways. For the most part and I qualify as a generalization, not to offend, but for observation purposes only, the Budget Scrounger creates a tight budget based on used items, a slow build kit, takes years to build due to limit funds and the disipline to the bottom line. I admire this person's patience and have a dear friend that is the master of this artform, but in recent years the Giter Dun guys are more prevelant. These guys have a ball park figure in mind, but the budget is secondary to getting in the air. It may include subcontracting out the paint and electrical to performing the entire process with help at a builder's assistance center. Either way, big bucks are about to go out of your wallet and into someone's cash register.

Hard, you bet! Wanna be consoled about remorse, Montel, Phil, Oprah and the others are on every day!

BTW Jay, if the tools and tail are an issue, you will die when you buy your first $100+ burger! I hope this thread dies at this point. Stop whining and get started. This is a destination to exchange RV ideas and buy stuff. My therapy is my time spent working on airplanes and time in the air. Get to work and smell the roses at 200mph!

Its 7:15 and the weather is great, time to head to the airport and burn some dead dinosaurs. I hope the next post from Jay is how do I save this trim tab skin or what type of primer do I use(PPG Epoxy 50 color). If not, I'll take your squeezer and your DRDT-2. Call me either way. Glad to help!

FWIW

BTW 2 Doug this not being able to use colorful metaphors is real challenging and time consuming. Thanks for the rant platform, as always.
 
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Knox

Robbie, my old buddy, you sure have a way with words!! Yes, whatever it is you're selling, I'll buy one :D I'm having to come up with new stories to tell so I can keep up with your Coffee/adrenaline rush you have this mornin',
Regards
 
Your rant!

Okay Hard Knox. You got me! I quite. Clearly I am a minor league player undertaking a major league project. Thanks for setting me straight. Clearly since I have a little "buyer's remorse" (in quotes for a reason) I am not worthy to join men such as yourself and call myself a homebuilder. Therefore, moderator, please move this thread to the Classifieds. I am selling my Pneumatic Squeezer and DRDT-2 for 60 cents on the dollar.

Jay

PS Joking...and Robbie, sorry for deficating in your corn flakes with my post. Moderator, delete if you want.
 
Jay,

Getting back to your original question, any misgivings are IMMEDIATELY diminished the very nanosecond those boxes show up at your front door!!

Jeff
-8 wings
 
Apprehensive

I would be confident that when Jay talks about being "remorseful" about committing to an RV empennage kit and tools...he really means "apprehensive".

And he has good reason to be "apprehensive". According to figures that I have heard only one in three RV tail kits ever flies in the hands of the original purchaser. That's a 66 % failure / drop out rate.

It's obviously not an ideal pursuit for people with limited time, patience, money, skills, or preparedness to do a whooooooole lot of self educating.
 
Touchet' Bob!

I am the third owner of the kit that resulted in my current RV-8. I am the third owner of my current RV8 project.

Jay my top offer is 67.5 cents on the dollar.

For all, my comments are frank, honest and "hard" for a reason. I believe that perpetuation of the current wave a political correctness is the latest assault on our liberties and attempts to persue the freedom of happiness. I have the ability to be nice and polite, even obey Doug's rules, but a thick skin and a healthy sense of humor allow me to endure my share of what I regularly dish out.

In closing, shut up, quit whining(and watching Oprah) and get to building!

BTW: Pierre Smith gets my vote for President of the world!

BTW 2: Thanks to out Veterans for all you did and I hope Sam Hornish has a flat tire on the way home from Indy!

FWAOTIW
 
DarinFred,

Looking at your profile I see you have listed as your occupation 'T-38 Instructor Pilot'. Let me just go out on a limb here and suggest you have the mental discipline to finish your RV. I share a hanger with an 'A' model T-38 instructor (Danny King), and he had no problems finishing his RV-8.

Robby, you gotta lay off the late night coffee and Red Bull, dude :D. My requirement of 'Total Civility' doesn't really jump to mind when reading those recent posts... Like they say, my house...my rules. How's that for frank and honest ;)?


Best,

Doug
VAF Forum Owner Dude
 
Darin. Never mind about the negitave posts. Sure you will have a little buyers remorse. It's mostly about the what the future will bring more than the money.
I suspect you kind of know what the total project will end up costing. I did a lot of research and could only narrow it down to between $30k and $50k. Most of the difference was in how much I wanted to put in the panel. But the panel comes much later in the build.
I personaly had the desire to build this 7A but no avaliable cash so I started like you. The emp and some tools... When I finished the emp I had built a great deal of confidence and resolved myself to take the next step.
The highest motivating factor was the realization that every penny I put into this project would be returned to me when it came time to sell.
If I were to go on to the wings I just set out to do the best job I could so that if at that stage I decided this was not for me then I could sell and still make back all my investment. But I finished the wings and I was more excited than before. So came the fuse, It was a blast to build. I was always looking for ways to fund every stage. Somehow I always found the cash.
I always knew that I was going to have to take out a loan for the engine and panel but by then I had a ton of equity built into the plane and by then I knew I was not going to quit.
Still every step of the way I could sell what I had and recover my costs but I also knew that if I finished the project then I would have an investment.
In my 48 years I have bought boats, motorcycles, nice cars and non of them ever gave me a financal return. All of them money down a big hole. I think you know what I mean. If you think you have what it takes to build then gods speed. You will alway get help where you need it and when you need it.
Van's aircraft builders are the best people you will find. Tons of support
I really think your orignal post was a request for a "Pat on the back" and hearty "Go getem".
Plan on all the time it takes. Money will find it's way into your project one way or another.
You could save for retirement. Get old. Sit around counting your money or-
put some of your retirement into something that will never let you feel old.
The foutain of youth
 
Thanks Doug! I know that I can get it done, I'm not worried about that. It may take 10 years with the current ops tempo, but it'll get done. And Hard Knox, you're probably not half as "hard" as you think you are. Curtis LeMay and Pappy Boyington were "hard".
 
no time limit...

Darin:

I decided early on not to put a timeframe on this project, and so far I'm about 4 years into this project ( and I'm still on the wings!!). Between little kids and sports and family stuff, honey do's, bankrupt airlines and several moves, it is just taking me a while.

And while I'm anxious to fly this sucker, I am certainly enjoying the journey. My shop, where it is all coming together, is my haven from the rest of the world when I want it to be! I sold my Cessna last fall, in order to continue financing this project, and that has given me a bit more motivation to keep building so I can fly this beauty.

The important thing to remember here is to enjoy the ride!!

Jeff
-8 wings
 
jdmunzell said:
My shop, where it is all coming together, is my haven from the rest of the world when I want it to be!

The important thing to remember here is to enjoy the ride!!

Jeff
-8 wings

From my point of view, this is right on the money. My project started in '99, which is a long time ago, but it's not like that's all I've been doing. My life is much more than pounding rivets day and night to keep up with some imaginary time-table. Just have fun and don't pay any mind to folks who jump at the chance to make others feel inferior.

I suppose my "left coast" attitude rubs some the wrong way, but as a teacher I spend my days trying to find ways to inspire others to work hard at difficult material, and have found that ignoring the feelings of others and telling folks to stop whining just doesn't get the job done. People taking on big tasks draw inspiration from the encouragement of those who have gone before them. Obviously, this is just my own experience and others will have different opinions, but show me somebody who's gone far and I'll show you someone who has benefited from the generosity of others. In most cases this site is a perfect example. Thanks to Doug and all who contribute.
 
Hallucinations

jeff beckley said:
Darin. I suspect you kind of know what the total project will end up costing. I did a lot of research and could only narrow it down to between $30k and $50k.

Jeff, you've got to stop smoking that weed....at $50k you're dreaming...at $30k you're hallucinating !!!

The current cost of an RV7 slowbuild kit including FWF kit is virtually $22k. By the time you add tools and tooling, interior primer, replacement parts, kit freight, ongoing workshop sundries, aircraft transportation to the airport, hangar rental for final assembly, and builders insurance you'll be close to $30k.

So what about the engine, lighting, wiring, seats, trims, exterior painting, propellor, instrument panel...did I mention the ELT, joystick handle, firewall sealant, fuel tank sealant....well I think you catch my drift.
 
all flavors

Somewhere in the future is an RV. Do you enjoy building? Do you enjoy a challenge? Sort it out. Each step is a challenge. Sit back and RELAX, someday you will fly. Make adjustments. Not a pilot, yet. Not a builder, yet. ...... It is a long term goal. One piece at a time.
 
DarinFred said:
Well, I just spent a **** load of money on an Avery Tool Kit, Pneumatic Squeezer, DRDT-2, and an empennage kit...plus quit a bit getting the shop together. Other than buying a vehicle, it my biggest purchase yet! Does the buyer's remorse go way after you crack open the empennage kit and start riveting?

Jay
Yes, and no. You are just getting ready to learn what a lousy riveter you are.... On the plus side, you are going to love that pneumatic squeezer!
John
 
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