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Outboard mid Seat bracket

bpattonsoa

Well Known Member
Are there any -10s flying with four bolts in the outboard mid seat bracket? Especially the rear outboard bolt?

Thee other three are the worst in the airplane to date, even with the bolt in from the bottom. The last SOB won't go in that way and I am not sure a nut will fit in that #%|\#% corner.

As a Licensed Engineer I am about ready to declare that bolt as part of my structural margin and leave it in the box!
 
I could not get those bolts in, but my wife (with her much smaller and more flexible hands ) was able to do so.

They are a PITA for sure:mad:
 
It will fit and I would recommend that you put it in. Like Mike say's, small hands are a help. IIRC, I super glued the washer to the nut, then taped that to a welding wire I bent to get it started. Took me about 3-4 hours to get both sides done and tightened.
 
A real PITA

Been quite awhile since I did it but this was a task that stood out and I still remember a little about it. I used a couple dabs of RTV to secure the washer to the nut. Then put a piece of tape over one side of a combination wrench. The nut/washer was then held into the wrench while I twisted, turned, and basically deformed my arm to reach the bolt. It worked, but I still had to tighten the bolt head and not the nut so I secured it backwards, but I am willing to accept that.

Eric
 
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Lot o' cussing!

Sorry to say, those bolts stretched my vocabulary to the limit where I not on
recited profanity in 2 languages and added the words that I had not yet learned just to be sure the episode was not understated.
Some combination of what has been said worked in the end and now I really enjoy those seats.
Good luck!
 
Just completed a day ago

Sorry...found them a bit of a challenge but not bad at all...Lift each bolt up, slide nut and washer in place and drop bolt down and thread bolt into nut. Tighten with offset wrench and stubby 1/4 inch drive from top. Happy Happy:)
 
Magnet

Another option is to hold the washer and nut in place is to put a small magnet on the bolt head. The washer and nut will then be drawn onto the bolt. Works well.
Or I use my magnet on the end of my inspection mirror to hold the washer and nut and then position into place.
I'm lucky I have small hands. But enlisting some help from a younger person is not a bad idea.
I remember reading the horror stories but guess I was lucky and each one only took a few minutes.

Good luck

Peter
 
Outboard mid seat rail support

One suggestion-- before tightening down the bolts, check that the seat rail holes line up correctly with the support in place.

I had both supports in place for awhile and then found out that despite being CAD designed, they did NOT line up with the seat rails :eek:. If you think putting them in is a PITA, try taking them out to fix them and reinstalling them TWICE :mad:. And yes, I had installed them correctly. My initial installation was checked and verified by a repeat Rv-10 builder and local DAR.

My solution was to slot the support mounting holes and trim off the entire back flange for clearance off the main spar bolts.
 
Been eyeing this installation

I assume you guys are talking about page 28-16. I have been looking at this with reservation as well. If we're talking about the same issue, the mid seat rail support bolts onto the main gear support structure. I was wondering if nutplate installation might be acceptable?
Also, the instructions says not to install the brackets till after the gear leg support structure is fitted, (page 28-16) but I cannot find where this is picked up again in the instructions.
Cheers.
Johan
 
Nut plates

You are correct, it is just something you need to keep in mind as you get near the end. There are several similar situations in the build where it says to do something later and then never says when. I guess when the part box is empty you are ready to fly.

YES, put nutplates in the gear mounts before installing! These bolts are loaded in shear so a nutplate is acceptable. I would also move the rear outboard hole forward about .5" to make it easier to reach.

I wonder what the Brazil factory does?
 
You are correct, it is just something you need to keep in mind as you get near the end. There are several similar situations in the build where it says to do something later and then never says when. I guess when the part box is empty you are ready to fly.

YES, put nutplates in the gear mounts before installing! These bolts are loaded in shear so a nutplate is acceptable. I would also move the rear outboard hole forward about .5" to make it easier to reach.

I wonder what the Brazil factory does?

Are you asking, "What do the quickbuild kits come like?" I can tell you that the bracket was not installed and required the same profanity that others used to get it on :(
 
Are you asking, "What do the quickbuild kits come like?" I can tell you that the bracket was not installed and required the same profanity that others used to get it on :(

No, I mean the factory in Brazil where they manufacture RVs for certified use in South America. They have produced at least half of the RV-10s flying today. I believe they do slo-builds. It is the most popular bird in the area. Apparently most come with AC and is the reason the XIO-540 s Vans sells have dual belt flywheels as standard.

They probably just use different obscenities!

Link: http://www.flyer.com.br
 
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You are correct, it is just something you need to keep in mind as you get near the end. There are several similar situations in the build where it says to do something later and then never says when. I guess when the part box is empty you are ready to fly.

YES, put nutplates in the gear mounts before installing! These bolts are loaded in shear so a nutplate is acceptable. I would also move the rear outboard hole forward about .5" to make it easier to reach.

I wonder what the Brazil factory does?

Two more questions.
1. Will drilling the holes for the rivets that holds the platenuts weaken the gear mount to point of concern? (Would not seem that it will be an issue, but I'm not engineer)
2. Any issues with installing platenuts for all 4 bolts?
Thanks.
Johan
 
Two more questions.
1. Will drilling the holes for the rivets that holds the platenuts weaken the gear mount to point of concern? (Would not seem that it will be an issue, but I'm not engineer)
2. Any issues with installing platenuts for all 4 bolts?
Thanks.
Johan

1. No, not even close.
2. A couple are not too hard to put in, none are what I would call easy. I would do them all.
 
1. No, not even close.
2. A couple are not too hard to put in, none are what I would call easy. I would do them all.

Thanks.
Installing platenuts in all seems to be the logic thing to do.
I will have a look at the rear outer hole position when I get to the hanger to see why you suggest to move it forward. Cannot quite picture that from memory right now.
I seem to remember that all the holes did did not line up perfectly when I test fitted the bracket....some time ago now.
Cheers.
Johan
 
rail support

Does the plans call out what size bolts to use to install the mid support bracket for the seat rails.
 
Three bolts was enough for me...left the rear outboard one out. Son is aero engineer, felt it was OK.
 
I'm struggling with all of this discussion. I was able to get all the bolts installed. It took a little ingenuity and a lot of cussing, but no more than a few minutes to install. I would think it will take longer to install nutplates:rolleyes:
 
I got them all in, too. Spray glue to tack the washers to the nuts, then the nuts to my finger tip or into a box wrench.
 
Three bolts was enough for me...left the rear outboard one out. Son is aero engineer, felt it was OK.

Most of us had our share of frustration with those bolts and written about it...

Leaving out one of the bolts is not something I would do.
Take another stab at it, recite some profanity or better yet use some of the great suggestions mentioned earlier such as spray glue, magnet or wife's small hands.

In case of a crash you'd want that seat to stay put where it is.
 
Page 49-03. Love those digital plans.

Cannot find the instructions and bolt length as you mentioned. No mention of the support brackets in 49-03 in my plans, only seat rails. I am still looking but think it is an omission in the plans. See post 11 and reply.
Johan
 
I don't remember having any particular difficulty with these bolts. I've had plenty of other fittings that have given me grief.........

I certainly wouldn't leave any bolts out. Fitting nutplates seems to be a ridiculous amount of work for bolts that are never going to be taken out again.
 
Resurrecting old thread as a result of a search for answers-

One suggestion-- before tightening down the bolts, check that the seat rail holes line up correctly with the support in place.

I had both supports in place for awhile and then found out that despite being CAD designed, they did NOT line up with the seat rails :eek:. If you think putting them in is a PITA, try taking them out to fix them and reinstalling them TWICE :mad:. And yes, I had installed them correctly. My initial installation was checked and verified by a repeat Rv-10 builder and local DAR.

My solution was to slot the support mounting holes and trim off the entire back flange for clearance off the main spar bolts.

You, sir, sadly, win my internet today for truth in advertising.

Trimming off the back edge of the mid bracket was to be the next step - and may be what I should have done, since slotting doesn't help much if the part can't slide more than 1/16" in the needed direction.



Instead I enlarged holes in everything over top of the nut plates (bent one of those plates over, too:mad:) and somehow got most of the screws to go in catawumpus but with threads engaged nonetheless.

Moving the mid seat rail bracket aft serves to wedge the seat rail upward necessitating 0.10" shims at the aft bracket to keep things straight. I'm still working on that.



Thankfully these shenanigans were only needed on the passenger side outside rail; everything else was close enough to correct with a #14 chase-drilling of multiple screw holes for clearance.

I will say this as calmly and objectively as I can: if the remainder of the 10 kit represents today's industry standard for aircraft kit workmanship, this one portion of the 10 kit is utterly beneath Van's reputation for quality. This is not an isolated issue, and there is nothing in the plans to assist the builder in installing this out-of-spec part and the cascade of issues its installation causes. A plans revision, at the very least, is in order. This is an area where oversize holes and floating nut plates would save a lot of grief.
 
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Old thread, but I'll add to the chorus of complaints.

The pilots side bracket is too far forward by 1/16" on my airplane. I spent two hours in the garage pouring sweat last night to attach both brackets. Now,I've gotta remove one of them, slot holes, and reinstall.

There's gotta be a better way on this...
 
OK, I just finished reworking my pilot side bracket. Things fit now. It only took a couple of hours to find and fix the issue in the 800F inferno that is my garage in July.

Here's a helpful hint for getting the bolts in:

Start with the outboard aft bolt. Don't even insert the others. That gives you the ability to twist the bracket, wiggle the bracket, etc to get a better look at what you're doing on the hardest to get to bolt so you can get the nut threaded.

Once you get that nut threaded, the other 3 are easy in comparison.
 
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