What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Close to starting building: 2 seats or 4 seats?

Z

zampano

Member
Greetings everyone, lurker turned poster!

I am currently debating between an RV-10 and an RV-14. Was wondering if there was anyone who bought a 2 seat RV and regretted it inasmuch as they wished they had bought a -10; or anyone who had bought a -10 and wished they had gone with something that only had 2 seats. Also, what is your reason for wishing you had gone the other way, and did you later?

Cheers and fly safe!
 
Don't forget the sexy factor! There is a reason that Corvettes have two seats!

Seriously, mine (7A) isn't flying yet. I do have a Cessna 182. I've been flying it since the late 80's. I rarely carry passengers in the back seat. You just need to look at the reality of who you are and how you intend to fly.

In my humble opinion, there are a lot of folks out there who overbuild and rarely or never make use of the capabilities they have added. On a short daytime flight with a friend in his 7A, I pointed out that his heading was appearing wrong on a glass instrument he had. He pressed a few buttons then gave up and said he will need to go read the manual. Two years later, same issue, guess what? Still didn't know how to operate the instrument. He also had steam gauges and knew how to use them. In other words, we get excited and sometimes tend to overbuild and over-complicate. Another friend completed a -7 about six years ago with a full IFR panel. Even though he is instrument rated, he has never flown it on instruments. Once finished, some use their planes to fly near the home airport or go get a breakfast on weekends. Others make use of all of the gadgets and take some really ambitious trips, then I have seen others complete, park in a hangar, and let their work of art gather dust (sad but true). The joy of building/flying is a passion that takes many forms.


Give yourself a reality check, then lay out some goals. When I get absolutely honest with myself, I am a fair weather pilot, fly in a 300 mile radius the majority of the time and almost always carry one passenger but rarely two or three. Ideally I would like to think I have Chuck Yeagers genes, but that's not the reality. I also have a few genetics that would align me with a big chicken at times! That is reality! :)

I chose to build because A) I am fascinated with the building process and enjoy it almost as much as flying (note that I may waffle on this statement once it's flying!) B) I could get a repairmans certificate and save a chunk of change every year (unlike the Cessna) C) I can configure it just how I want it D) Fixed pitch/constant speed/fixed gear - This plane has great numbers regardless E) Two seats - fits the majority of my flying F) cheaper way to have a new aircraft built just like I want it

I started my bird in 2004 with a 7-8 year hiatus. To date, no regrets with any of my decisions so far but lots of excitement. Whatever you choose, keep it fun! Welcome to home building! I didn't get to build today so spent my energy writing this. Sorry so wordy.
 
Don't forget: Aerobatics (== 2 seat). Before my RV I hadn't realized they would be so fun. It totally killed any interest in me for a straight and level $100 burger lunch.
 
As has already been stated, aerobatics is one deciding factor. If it's a must, then your decision is already made. You can do some nice aileron rolls in a -10, and I know one guy who loops his when he's alone, but there is certainly not the safety margin as there is with the "aerobatic" models.

Aerobatics aside, there is one big distinguishing factor that the -10 has. It has doors. I was flying with a guy the other day in his -7A. He said his wife wishes it had doors. Not that doors are the key, but that the -10 is MUCH easier to get in and out of than the 2-seat models, especially for my 250Lb frame.

Regarding the -10, it is much bigger. It has adjustable and reclining front seats. It can carry two people and enough stuff to fill a large SUV. It can early carry 2 people, but it can also carry more. The others can carry 2, but can't carry more, ever.

I have never heard a -10 owner say they wish they had just built or bought a 2-seater. Not once. I have heard a lot of 2-seat owners say they wish they had built/bought a -10.

Mission is a big part of the decision, as others have said. Budget is another big part. It would be interesting to see the actual price difference between a -10 and -14 in total cost with the same instruments. I'm guessing they will likely be within $20k of eachother, equally equipped.
 
Decide on your mission, then decide on the configuration. This assuming you have the time to build either configuration
 
Bill.Peyton said:
Decide on your mission, then decide on the configuration.
Click to expand...

Like Bill said, our opinion on what you should build is irrelevant. One way to make your own choice is to look at your logbook to remind yourself how many times there were more than 2 people in the plane and whether that is important to you to accommodate it (or could it have been dealt with differently). My experience (including a Mooney) was more than 2 in the craft was rare so we built a 2 seater.
 
Everyone is different

Each person enjoys things from a different perspective.

I love aerobatics!!!! Loops, rolls...etc.

I have in my hanger or tied down in my back yard an RV-10, RV-8, Fisher Classic, Cessna 172. all of them are airworthy and ready to go. Guess what! the RV-8 flies the least. All it takes is firing it up.

The -10 probably sees the most time with the open cockpit, ~65mph Fisher Classic coming in second. I have never had the Classic upside down...now imagine that and I consider it the most fun to fly. One of the drawbacks on the -8 is lack of instrumentation.

if you build a -14 you will wish you had a -10. If you build a -10 you will wish you had a -14......the grass is ALWAYS greener on the other side of the fence!
 
I had a 10, and am building an RV-14A as I found I enjoyed the long trips with myself and just one other on board much more than when we were four. The four on board were usually all pilots so that could be part of the problem. I'm also trying to save a little on initial cost and in fuel burn. Of coarse I'm not flying yet so perhaps I will regret the move.
[QUOTE=Jesse;979692
I have never heard a -10 owner say they wish they had just built or bought a 2-seater. Not once. I have heard a lot of 2-seat owners say they wish they had built/bought a -10.
 
Thanks everyone for the inputs! I wasn't trying to see what I should do so much as see how many others had wished they had chosen differently. Looks like I'll be using my whiteboard a lot while I wait for my motorcycle to sell. Pros/Cons of each aircraft and what mission I truly want to fulfill.


drone_pilot said:
Don't forget the sexy factor! There is a reason that Corvettes have two seats!

Give yourself a reality check, then lay out some goals.
Click to expand...

I hadn't thought of that before, the sexy factor is important! With university graduation coming up in December this year I have been doing a lot of goal setting, that's why I'm here. :)

kevinh said:
Don't forget: Aerobatics (== 2 seat). Before my RV I hadn't realized they would be so fun. It totally killed any interest in me for a straight and level $100 burger lunch.
Click to expand...

Never flown aerobatics really, doing my PPL in a DA-40. May have to find someone in my area to give me a ride and see how I like them.

Jesse said:
Regarding the -10, it is much bigger. It has adjustable and reclining front seats. It can carry two people and enough stuff to fill a large SUV. It can early carry 2 people, but it can also carry more. The others can carry 2, but can't carry more, ever.

I have never heard a -10 owner say they wish they had just built or bought a 2-seater. Not once. I have heard a lot of 2-seat owners say they wish they had built/bought a -10.

Mission is a big part of the decision, as others have said. Budget is another big part. It would be interesting to see the actual price difference between a -10 and -14 in total cost with the same instruments. I'm guessing they will likely be within $20k of eachother, equally equipped.
Click to expand...

Looking at the kit prices I would imagine them to be within $20k to $30k of each other. I guess being young and single the "mission" could change at any time; marriage and kids can change a lot.

Weasel said:
if you build a -14 you will wish you had a -10. If you build a -10 you will wish you had a -14......the grass is ALWAYS greener on the other side of the fence!
Click to expand...

Always seems to go that way, seems like the right answer is to build both!
 
4 seats?

I have a 4 seater, it has two seats installed, the extra space is for camping gear. Only installed the rear bench two times in six years. We use the Cessna 180 for camping trips. Not extra passengers. Just doesn't come up.
My RV8 is used the most for everything else. I rarely do a roll, aerobatics, never.
You must defin your mission. It is hard to cover every mission with one airplane.
 
If I have followed this thread correctly, it seems that the choice has come down to whether you want to do aerobatics or whether you want to haul lots of people or gear. It appears you, zampano, don't have any strong feelings either way. Let's see if there might be some other factor that could influence your decision. What if you spend years of work and tens of thousands of dollars of money on the project, and at the end of it have an airplane in your hangar worth $120k. Now imagine doing the same amount of work, spending $40k more, and having an airplane in your hangar worth $180k. Are you as wishy washy about the extra $20,000 dollars as you are about whether you want to do aerobatics? I haven't done the math myself, but don't forget to include return on investment on your whiteboard.
 
It was hard to define the mission for me. I THOUGHT I needed four seats to take a lot of friends on trips and fun flights with me. I rarely had four seats full over the many years I had that plane. When the offer was made to friends that had expressed interest, suddenly they had something important to do that day, like inventory their supply of frozen peas in the freezer. I would have been far better served had I chosen a two seater.
 
I have been flying for 32 years, 18 in RVs and rockets. Most of my time is in tandem seat, taildraggers. For a pilot there can be no better experience then sitting on the centre line, directly over the C of G.
My wife has travelled in the rocket with me, sitting in the back seat, all over North America. Space and comfort has not been an issue for her.
I am building a RV14, just for the fun of it, although I am definitely not selling the Rocket! I sat in the demonstrator RV14 and it has significantly more room then any of the RVs, other then the RV10. It has much better visibility then the RV10. The top and doors on the RV10 kind of remind me of being in a Piper Cherokee. I have 25 to 30 hours in the RV10 and I am convinced that it is absolutely the best four seat aircraft on the market. You can actually carry a good load, with passengers, in comfort.
The RV10 is a very nice flying airplane but next to a Rocket, RV4, 6,or 7 it flies like a Mini Van. Maybe it should have been called The Mini RVan, as it accomplishes the same sort of mission. If I had a young family the RV10 would be my choice.
I believe that the RV14, even at a higher price, will replace both the RV7 and RV9 as the most poplar side by side aircraft in the Vans fleet.
I recommend trying all the airplanes, but build or purchase the one that is the most fun to fly. You can always rent a four seater for that once a year family trip....
 
Last edited:
zampano said:
That's the exact reason I was thinking of the RV-10; but for the few times I would want four seats, I think Tom hit it, I can always rent one.
Click to expand...

However, renting has its limitations for family hauling CCs, which is why we all want to own instead... Perhaps you should consider the rental being the one you do acro in, burning "local" holes in the sky. You can easily get your hands on a Decathelon or perhaps join a flying club with a Pitts or Extra on hand.. If you're smart about it, the 10 can be built for not much more than a 2 seater. Once you've built one, you may find yourself building a second one...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top