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Quickbuild Factory

jlfernan

jlfernan

Well Known Member
Anybody been to or have any info on Van's factory in the Phillipines where the quickbuilds are assembled? I'm curious about the the jigs and techniques they use to assemble these kits. I'm sure alot of their methods could be used by us working in our garages. Just a thought.
 
That's what I love about this site,"Ask and ye shall receive".

By the way, I'll be ordering my QB wings and fuse in one week, that's why I wanted to see where they come from.
 
It looks like a very well organized operation. From what I hear the quality, products and procedures are getting more advanced by the day.
 
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I, for one am glad to see they aren't breathing in any of that rivet gun exhaust!

sub_assy.jpg


;) CJ
 
I see that the quickbuild factory in the Phillipines makes cowls for RV's. Are these the same ones Van's sells in the firewall foreward kits? If not, does anyone know if the quality is better than Van's?

Darrell
RV9A QB
 
Factory Visit by FOD

My wife Edita, who I met in Hong Kong whilst driving B777s for Cathay, is from the Philippines and we visited the QB factory whilst holidaying in Manila last October.

The factory used to be near Angeles City, north of Manila, but a few years ago was bought by Steve Nelson and moved to Laguna, one hour south of Manila.
Steve, a delightful American, is a LAME (Licensed Aircraft Mechanical Engineer) and maintains the US Ambassador?s King Air. With time on his hands he runs the factory with his Filipino partner Albert Rano.
At the time of our visit they were in the process of building a mezzanine floor and things were a bit chaotic.
What was impressive was the standards and skills of the workers. Steve trains all the workers and as an insight into the standards the ?riveters? polish their rivet sets three or four rimes a day. I also noticed a pile of scrap and Steve explained that, if the last rivet in a skin is below standard the whole skin is replaced.
The factory Wing Jigs are adaptable to suit all RV wings.
Each year half a dozen of the most experienced workers are sort by airlines like Singapore as maintenance staff and Steve encourages them to take the offer so that they and their families may escape from the subsistence life in the Philippines. Consequently, all us QB blokes can enjoy the warm fuzzing feeling that we are doing a bit for those less fortunate than ourselves.
Steve also showed me a ?Super QB? RV10 which only requires instruments and paint- from memory. He was still working on how to market it.
All in all it was a very pleasant experience and worth the effort of finding the factory in a country with roads overcrowded with Jeepnies and Honda 50cc tricycles and no street signs.
Anyone who wants detailed directions to the factory might email me: [email protected].
Pete.
Nelson SteveQB Factory
work +63 49 837 2837
mobile +63 0916 721 0303
work [email protected]

Factory KM38, National Hwy
Brgy, Macabling Sta Rosa Laguna
Philippines



 
I just received my wings and fuse(see seperate posting) and I have to say I'm impressed. The work those folks do is impeccable. There is not a single ding, dent, or scratch to be found. Makes my workmanship on the tail look pathetic. I know it's a quite a bit more money, but for those of you who are short on time and want quality work, you can't beat it. Plus they sent me a free hat!!
 
TShort said:
So what is the deal with the RV-10 "full build"?
I didn't know that was an option. Looks like they build the tail kit / cone there?

See bottom of page:
http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/prodserv.htm

Thomas
-8 wings
Click to expand...
Not positive, but from the priming difference on the cone, and the fact that all the blue plasitic is off it, I'd guess that they just attach the one that you build to the fuse.
 
Talked to them last night.

The factory has set up a seperate company.
They have received permission from Vans. (That is what they said)
They buy the kits from Vans.
Build them to sell firewall back only.
Inside primed or painted per buyers preference.


$82,000 US not including shipping

$6000 + or - shipping to FL or TX

I would consider this myself because I'm not known for my patience.

I'm being sent the info I need to sell as a broker.

mcStealth
 
mcsteatlh said:
The factory has set up a seperate company.
They have received permission from Vans. (That is what they said)
They buy the kits from Vans.
Build them to sell firewall back only.
Inside primed or painted per buyers preference.


$82,000 US not including shipping

$6000 + or - shipping to FL or TX

I would consider this myself because I'm not known for my patience.

I'm being sent the info I need to sell as a broker.

mcStealth
Click to expand...
What will the FAA say about this? Obviously not meet the 51% rule but if I understand that rule is that we have to demonstrate the ability to complete any of the given tasks (i.e. Riveting, control system assembly, electrical, mechanical, etc..) Dunno but this is very interesting. Has anybody asked Van's about this?
 
Wait a minute Guys

Before everyone gets all warm and fuzzy about the workmanship out of the Phillipines, hold up a minute.

Yes, these guys can drive a rivet, and pretty well consistently too. But they really don't know what an airplane is supposed to look like.

If they did know, then why did my wing trailing edges have ski jumps on the upper trailing edges? Like right ahead of the ailerons and flaps. And why did the very same thing show up on my friends QB wings? Why does Vans have a specific tool made to address this problem for QB wing buyers to repair the same defect? No, the quality control may be in place to ensure standard riveting practices, but the quality control to put out an aviation grade finished product is NOT there.

I spent about two weeks getting my fuel tanks to fit the wings without ripples and waves over the main spar. I spent another week or so getting the special tool and repairing my trailing edges so that they conformed to the airfoil profile as published. Then I passed the tool on to my friend.

So, if you are able, go to Vans, and inspect your wings BEFORE taking delivery so that you can get the quality assurance that you paid for.

Cheers, Pete
 
Feedback

Pete,
I am sure Steve would be interested in some feedback regarding your problems. He is very focused on the quality of his product.
Nelson SteveQB Factory Philippines.
work +63 49 837 2837
mobile +63 0916 721 0303
work [email protected]

It might also benifit future users.

Pete.
 
I have to agree about the inconsistencies of the QB kits. I see a wide range of workmanship. Have any of you taken a good look at Martin Sutters -7A? The QB portion of the kit is terrible. It's really a shame to se a meticulous builder like Martin saddled with such sad kit.
 
Mel said:
I have to agree about the inconsistencies of the QB kits. I see a wide range of workmanship. Have any of you taken a good look at Martin Sutters -7A? The QB portion of the kit is terrible. It's really a shame to se a meticulous builder like Martin saddled with such sad kit.
Click to expand...
Now this is starting to get scary. I'm planning on ordering a QB kit but if the workmanship is not up to par.... What has Van's said about this?
 
I certianly trust Mel's opinion on this (he licensed my plane)! The missing info, however, is the serial numbers of the kits that show poorer workmanship - I know that my -8 (SN 82133) was beautifully done. I'm sure that there was a learning curve, and some of the lower qaulity might be the earlier ones - or, there may be problems with the newer ones indicating that they have fluctuating quality issues. Don't know unless we know when the reported ones were built.

Paul

Paul
 
Which Factory

Steve Nelson, the owner of the Philippines QB factory bought the business from someone else a few years ago and moved the factory 100 miles from the original. And I having met Steve (who is a licenced aircraft engineer and looks after the US Ambassor's King Air) can vouch for his excellent standards.
We might be talking about products from different factories.
Pete.
 
I guess I should have mentioned that the majority of the QB that I look at are very nicely done. I was just trying to point out that they are inconsisent.
 
Regardless of the factory of origin, all the quickbuild kits for the US market funnel back through Van's before shipping to domestic customers. So if there is a QC problem at the factory of origin, that problem should be spotted during inspection at Vans and rejected. How is this stuff (i.e., Mel's comments about Martin Sutter's QB kit) getting through Vans own inspection?
 
Seriously, how come most of the workers (even the final inspector) are wearing masks? Do they know something we should?

:eek:
 
As Mel stated, my RV7A quickbuild is less than pretty. It was delivered in April of 2005 (kit# 72116) after a long delay.

The main issues are: 1) Very poor dimpling, the dimples look like the skin was stuck with an awl, probably caused by not hitting hard enough. 2) Obvious failure to adjust the flanges of the ribs to 90 degrees before installing them. This causes the wing skins to undulate spanwise. 3) Very pronounced "ski jump at the trailing edge of the rear spar. The skin sticks up about 1/4" above the air foil. 4) Poor fit of the fuel tanks resulting in puckering of the tank skin where it meets the outboard leading edge skin. 5) A very obvious tank leak that should have been caught when they tested them (they do that, we hope). 6) Heavy handed use of the edge rolling tool left sharp creases wherever they used it. It looks like different people worked on the various subcomponents. The ailerons for instance are dimpled perfectly while nothing else is. The wings are by far worse than the fuselage wich shows acceptable workmanship. The riveting is fine and there are no structural issues

Before deciding on a quick build I had looked at dozens of them over the years and found the quality quite nice. I had previously never seen one as rough as mine or I would not have ordered one. After mine we got two more in our Airpark in the same time frame (RV10's) that had similar workmanship problems. Since then I have not seen this kind of poor workmanship again on the latest kits. I can only guess that this lapse of quality was related to big backlog of quickbuilts during that time frame. May be new employees were added to catch up or the ones there were working way too many hours. Still, I wonder why nobody took up issue when the first underdimpled skin came along. I do not know how much screening happens when the kits pass thru Van's but these somehow managed to get thru.

Fortunately the completed airplane flies great and the flaws are only cosmetic. I will borrow Van's adjusting tool in an attempt to fix the trailing edge of the wing before the plane gets painted. Too bad I did not know it existed or I might have been able to prevent the ugly hump that occured in the outboard wing top skin when I riveted the prepunched aileron gap seal to the wing skin trailing edge.

Martin Sutter
 
What's happened

Martin,
Really feel for you. I would not be a happy boy.
I recieved kit 71522 April 2004.
One flange left reat bulkhead skin is all I can see that is not excellent.

So what has happened in one year? Or are some still made in Eastern Europe?

Pete.
 
Martin Sutter said:
As Mel stated, my RV7A quickbuild is less than pretty. It was delivered in April of 2005 (kit# 72116) after a long delay.
Click to expand...
Martin, thanks for the response. I'm sorry to hear of your QB troubles. :(

Well, I've been thinking a lot about the SB/QB choice, and your first-hand experience has helped me make up my mind. I'm building an RV-10, and I can't fathom the possibility of waiting four months (quoted lead time for the RV-10 QB kit) and then receiving that kind of product! :eek:

Looks like it's going to be a slow build for me.
 
I just received my QB 9A and am quite impressed. There is no way I could have done this kind of work, makes me want to redo my empennage. The only thing I could find is like was said before, was maybe a little heavy handed on the edge rolling on the ailerons. After building my empennage, and seeing how much work it could be, I can't fathom the idea of doing all the required smoothing, fluting, straightening on a slow build. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy building(can be stressful, but satisfying) but I want to reduce the chances of screwing something up and the QB does that for me. I can't imagine spending 14 hours on the wing ribs alone as I've seen done. My two cents.
 
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like it

My 7A #71947 (QB #1369 if I recall) has very good quality throughout. Everyone who's seen it inside and out couldn't really find anything out of kilter. The rear spar at the flap could be adjusted a tad downwards on the left wing but that's about it.

If I were to do it over (and over and over?), QB is the way to go for me.
 
QB Quality and Origin

fodrv7 said:
Martin,

So what has happened in one year? Or are some still made in Eastern Europe?

Pete.
Click to expand...

I ordered my 7A QB Wings and Fuselage approx 12 months ago and it arrived in Germany in Nov 05.
After ordering it I asked Van's about visiting the European QB site in the Czech republic but was told that they were no longer used - all QB's were produced in the Phillipines.

With ref to build quality the only problems that I have discovered so far was one bulged outboard rib where it was riveted to the rear spar and one wing having all the tank attach bolts over torqued (replacement bolts sent out by Van's FOC)
I haven't started on the Fuselage in earnest yet but apart from the odd bad rivet that I will replace, all looks excellent and I am very happy with the quality of the product.

Finally, and most importantly for the quick v slow choice as someone who is limited in the amount of time available (which probably applies to most builders :rolleyes: ) every time I look at the QB sitting in the garage I realise just how much time my choice has "saved" me.
All the European builders I have spoken to say the QB is the way to go if Finances permit - including the Chief Engineer of my UK flying club who built a 6 slowbuild.

I think the original Q was with ref to the 10 so maybe some 10 QB members could respond and provide their views on quality of the delivered product -
does anyone know how many 10 QB's have been delivered ?
 
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QB

My RV-8 QB showed excellent workmanship. There were a few rivets omitted and a few in holes which should have been open. Best money I ever spent. Agree with previous post - not sure I would have done as well on my own. Bill. Builder #81801.
 
I am opening this old thread because a friend of mine is traveling to that part of the world and would like to visit QB factory in Philippines. This thread is closed and there is no other info about the factory. Looks like telephone # is no longer in service and my email was unanswered. If somebody knows new coordinates please PM or email me. Thanks,
 
Ring Vans

Vlad,
I don't know why I didm't think of it 4 years ago when I was trying to find the address.

Ring Vans!
They must be in daily contact with them.

Pete.
 
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