VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics


Go Back   VAF Forums > Model Specific > RV-14
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-22-2012, 04:47 PM
DRBuilder's Avatar
DRBuilder DRBuilder is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 96
Default Fuel Tank Attach Plate Nuts

For Mitch Locke... Why are 1100-08 plate nuts (countersunk) used here instead of 1000-08 plate nuts? The spar flange is countersunk to accommodate the dimpled fuel tank skin with 8-32 flat head screws. The 1100-08 plate nut creates a void between the flange and the plate nut threads.... not good. Not to mention, the 3-3.5 rivets are too short to create a good head on the 1100-08 due to the thickness of the plate nut. I installed the 1000-08 plate nuts in 2 of the locations and they work perfect, with no void between the spar flange and the plate nut threads. Can you comment?

Links to pictures below.... (I tried to post them in the thread but they are HUGE and you need to use the toggle bar to slide back and forth to see the entire photos)

http://www.drrv7.com/files/IMG_0004.JPG
http://www.drrv7.com/files/IMG_0005.JPG
http://www.drrv7.com/files/IMG_0005.JPG
__________________
Dennis Roberts
Wake Forest, NC
EAA 1114, Apex, NC
N713DR Super-7 IO/540 SOLD
http://www.drrv7.com
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-22-2012, 04:49 PM
DRBuilder's Avatar
DRBuilder DRBuilder is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 96
Default 3rd Link Duplicated

This is the link I wanted to post as the 3rd one.....

http://www.drrv7.com/files/IMG_0006.JPG
__________________
Dennis Roberts
Wake Forest, NC
EAA 1114, Apex, NC
N713DR Super-7 IO/540 SOLD
http://www.drrv7.com
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-22-2012, 05:48 PM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 7,754
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRBuilder View Post
For Mitch Locke... Why are 1100-08 plate nuts (countersunk) used here instead of 1000-08 plate nuts? The spar flange is countersunk to accommodate the dimpled fuel tank skin with 8-32 flat head screws. The 1100-08 plate nut creates a void between the flange and the plate nut threads.... not good. Not to mention, the 3-3.5 rivets are too short to create a good head on the 1100-08 due to the thickness of the plate nut. I installed the 1000-08 plate nuts in 2 of the locations and they work perfect, with no void between the spar flange and the plate nut threads. Can you comment?
I'm not Mitch but I know the answer.

This is the exact same thing that has been done ever since the new spar design began being used (RV-8), and the void you are concerned about is not an issue. The majority of the strength is from the dimple acting in shear on the countersink.

The nutplate is used to guide the pilot of your countersink cutter when doing the countersinking.
If you use K1000 nutplates, the cutter will begin cutting into the nutplate before you get to the full depth required for the countersink.

Couple of other comments...

The rivets that are used to install nutplates provide zero strength to the fastener joint. They only hold the nutplate in position and prevent it from rotating while installing the fastener.
Sometimes a rivet a bit on the short side is spec.ed because the next longer would be maybe a bit on the long side and more difficult to set straight.


Everything about the RV14 kit was done for a reason, and the way the kit is supplied is a copy of how the wings were built when the structural testing was done.
So my advice would be a recommendation that builders not make changes without knowing the specifics of why something was done a particular way.

But, as always, this is experimental aircraft and you are free to do it differently if you choose.

BTW, the countersinks in your photos are not deep enough. The countersink depth needs to except the skin dimple, not the screw head, which requires a deeper counter sink than the screw does.

Last edited by rvbuilder2002 : 12-22-2012 at 05:54 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-22-2012, 07:47 PM
DRBuilder's Avatar
DRBuilder DRBuilder is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 96
Default

If the countersink needs to be deeper, that would explain why they chose to use the 1100 vz 1000 nut plate. I'll dimple a scrap piece of .032 and use as a gauge for the depth of the countersink. Thanks!
__________________
Dennis Roberts
Wake Forest, NC
EAA 1114, Apex, NC
N713DR Super-7 IO/540 SOLD
http://www.drrv7.com
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-22-2012, 09:48 PM
bird's Avatar
bird bird is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: lake charles, La.
Posts: 699
Default

That is a good idea. I dimpled two small plates I made from .032 scrap. One has a -3 and a -4 dimple and the other has #6 and #8 dimple. I have used them a lot throughout the build, very handy. Just got to make sure you know which holes get rivets and which get skins,.

Bird
__________________
Bird
rv8 entire airframe at airport now, painting done, intersection and gear upper and lower fairings done, maybe order engine around first of year or before the next rate increase.
"to fly is a privilege that I am so thankful to God for"
http://www.mykitlog.com/tcb328/
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-23-2012, 04:58 AM
MLock MLock is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Salem, OR
Posts: 284
Default

Thanks Scott. I constantly learn from you as well.
__________________
Mitchell Lock
President Van's Aircraft
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-23-2012, 09:33 PM
Jetguy's Avatar
Jetguy Jetguy is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Texas, Fort Worth
Posts: 1,231
Talking Late Night Snack Attack!

Went to fridge for a late night snack, couldn't sleep so went to garage instead and found a man in a red Santa suite working on this! After a closer look
It was just Rdog in a red jacket.

__________________
John
RV12 N1212K
Flying Since June 2010
1020 Hours as of 9/30/2017
Johnrv12@icloud.com
RV14 Wing, arrived and building at Rdog's new Hanger at 16X
S/N 140014
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-10-2013, 07:30 AM
kjowen's Avatar
kjowen kjowen is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Woodstock, GA
Posts: 126
Default Countersinking wing skin holes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRBuilder View Post
For Mitch Locke... Why are 1100-08 plate nuts (countersunk) used here instead of 1000-08 plate nuts? The spar flange is countersunk to accommodate the dimpled fuel tank skin with 8-32 flat head screws. The 1100-08 plate nut creates a void between the flange and the plate nut threads.... not good. Not to mention, the 3-3.5 rivets are too short to create a good head on the 1100-08 due to the thickness of the plate nut. I installed the 1000-08 plate nuts in 2 of the locations and they work perfect, with no void between the spar flange and the plate nut threads. Can you comment?

Links to pictures below.... (I tried to post them in the thread but they are HUGE and you need to use the toggle bar to slide back and forth to see the entire photos)

http://www.drrv7.com/files/IMG_0004.JPG
http://www.drrv7.com/files/IMG_0005.JPG
http://www.drrv7.com/files/IMG_0005.JPG
Hey I noticed in img-005 you had not countersunk the skin attach holes?
I did mine before riveting the plates and was just wondering if there was an issue doing this after riveting?
__________________
Ken Owen
Marietta, GA
RV-10, N471BG
RV- 8, N297DW, (sold)
RV- 8, Build in progress

VAF 2018 Donation
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-10-2013, 08:28 PM
DRBuilder's Avatar
DRBuilder DRBuilder is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 96
Default Countersinking Skin Attach Holes

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjowen View Post
Hey I noticed in img-005 you had not countersunk the skin attach holes?
I did mine before riveting the plates and was just wondering if there was an issue doing this after riveting?
There should not be any issues countersinking them later. There is nothing in the way. I haven't read the entire instruction book yet but so far, there has been no instruction to countersink all the skin attach holes yet. I remember doing that on my 7 with no issues....
__________________
Dennis Roberts
Wake Forest, NC
EAA 1114, Apex, NC
N713DR Super-7 IO/540 SOLD
http://www.drrv7.com
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-11-2013, 02:26 PM
Ron B. Ron B. is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Yarmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 2,229
Default

Countersinking these holes are on page 11-03 step 3.
__________________
Thanks Ron
RV-10 SOLD
RV-14 Flying
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:45 PM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.