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What keeps you from flying aerobatics? Really?

I fly an aerobatic RV and don't fly aerobatics because... (check all that apply)

  • I do fly aerobatics but not interested in competition.

    Votes: 91 51.1%
  • I'm worried about breaking my airplane.

    Votes: 25 14.0%
  • I can't afford equipping for aerobatics.

    Votes: 7 3.9%
  • I'm too old for this type of flying.

    Votes: 17 9.6%
  • I can't find someone to teach me aerobatics.

    Votes: 27 15.2%
  • Aerobatics just scare me.

    Votes: 16 9.0%
  • My wife or others discourage this activity.

    Votes: 9 5.1%
  • I have a medical condition that precludes this activity.

    Votes: 4 2.2%
  • I just don't like having fun.

    Votes: 5 2.8%
  • I haven't really thought about it. Tell me more.

    Votes: 13 7.3%

  • Total voters
    178
  • Poll closed .
i personally found it to be physically uncomfortable, best analogy i can think of is sorta like riding on a small boat on choppy water, some people do it- i just don't think it's enjoyable

i guess to each his own?

Agree. I love doing big lazy, smooth, manuvers in very smooth air.

I tried brussel sprouts and didn't like them. Hope no one holds that against me. ;)

I tried flying aerobatics and didn?t like it. I eat brussels sprouts all the time. Hope nobody holds that against me.
 
coaching

I owned a 152 Aerobat for many years and did a lot of loops, rolls and spins, but nothing fancier like hammerheads, humptys or snaps because I was worried about recovering from botched maneuvers. Now I'm at the same point in my RV-14A, i enjoy the simple stuff but am reluctant to do the more complicated moves. The little training I've done in Citabrias doesn't give me confidence that it's transferable to the RV.

Is there any way I could get a pilot experienced in RV acro to ride along and coach me on the entry speeds and recoveries involved in intermediate RV acro?

Willing to supply all the beer he can drink (afterwards, of course :)
 
Acro training

I'd be more than happy to help anyone interested in learning aerobatics in their RV. I'm reasonably light weight and located at KORK. If I can help anyone, just let me know.

Tommy
 
No, you aren?t the only one. I?ve never gotten physically sick, but I have gotten that ?wiped out for the rest of the day? thing. With me it?s only some things: spins, and, if I do enough of them, lazy eights. But steep turns/spirals, or turbulence, don?t bother me at all. And here?s a strange data point:
I?ve been to ?Star Tours? at Disneyland (basically a full motion simulator). I emerged ?wiped out?, returned to the hotel and went to sleep at 6 pm, and slept for 14 hours (!). On the next trip, I went thru the ride again, but this time kept my eyes closed the whole time. I emerged feeling just fine. So, with me, it?s not just the motion. Of course, I can?t close my eyes in the airplane.

Exactly!! Those full motion simulator rides make me deathly ill. I also have to close my eyes. At amusement parks we now ask if the ride really moves or just simulates it while looking at a screen. I can ride roller coasters all day long but put me in one of those fake rides and I'm done for.
I'm building a 9A so no aero for me in that, but I'd love to try it at some point in a different plane. That first pic in the post of the plane going vertical gets me really excited!! I don't yet have my license, but I think some aero training would make me a better pilot.
 
My life is scheduled enough without adding more event. I don't want to turn my relaxing hobby into "Gotta be at X at 9:00 AM, fly two routines, then home by 2:00 for youth soccer."
 
I owned a 152 Aerobat for many years and did a lot of loops, rolls and spins, but nothing fancier like hammerheads, humptys or snaps because I was worried about recovering from botched maneuvers. Now I'm at the same point in my RV-14A, i enjoy the simple stuff but am reluctant to do the more complicated moves. The little training I've done in Citabrias doesn't give me confidence that it's transferable to the RV.

Is there any way I could get a pilot experienced in RV acro to ride along and coach me on the entry speeds and recoveries involved in intermediate RV acro?

Willing to supply all the beer he can drink (afterwards, of course :)

Jerry is in the Seattle area. Any help out there?

Jerry,
If you don't get a response here you should contact your local IAC chapter for information. Tell Peggy I sent you.

IAC 67
Seattle, WA
President: Peggy Riedinger
Contact: 206-783-5141 | [email protected]
Meetings: Every 3rd Saturday 7:00 PM
Location: Rainier Flight Service
790 West Perimeter Road
Renton WA 98057

Website: IAC67.eaachapter.org
 
Brad, I just realized your avatar is a tinpot General rightways up, but a child upside down.

Is this your real opinion about aerobatics?
 
I fly lots of aerobatics. I just didn't like some of the pedantic, childish, boorish behavior I saw at multiple IAC gatherings. Besides, aerobatics are a means to an end - I'm much more interested in rat racing than doing loops/rolls/etc for a panel of judges.

Brad, I just realized your avatar is a tinpot General rightways up, but a child upside down.

Is this your real opinion about aerobatics?
 
Hi Ron, Being a frustrated fighter pilot:mad:, I do do gentleman's acro. But they're sloppy-y-y-y-y-y-y-y.:rolleyes: I'd like to get better at them. I "am" afraid to do Immelmans, for fear I'd get myself into an inverted flat spin. How do I find this guy? Koontz below??

Greg Koontz is an outstanding instructor and a weekend at his B&B in Alabama
 
Every time I do more than two rolls, or pull ang significant g?s, I get air sick. It wipes me out for the rest of the day. Otherwise, I would love to join the tumbling mirth of sun-split clouds. I can?t believe I?m the only one.

Hi Steve, Like another post here, I too got sick when I was first learning. Used to fill up the bag, stuff it under my seat and say. "Ok sir, lets keep going". Even tho I got sick, I was having a ball. Later on, I realized it was just fear. Once I got over that, I was ok. Keep on truckin.:cool:
 
Jerry is in the Seattle area. Any help out there?

Jerry,
If you don't get a response here you should contact your local IAC chapter for information. Tell Peggy I sent you.

IAC 67
Seattle, WA
President: Peggy Riedinger
Contact: 206-783-5141 | [email protected]
Meetings: Every 3rd Saturday 7:00 PM
Location: Rainier Flight Service
790 West Perimeter Road
Renton WA 98057

Website: IAC67.eaachapter.org

How one receive duel acro training with 2 adults, 2 shoots, and fuel and stay below the max acro weight?

Is the solution to just pre-brief a max positive G of 4 and stay below the max gross weight of the plane and know you'll be over the max acro weight?

I know for my 6 I'm solo, mid fuel, and no parachute and we are pretty much at the max acro weight.
 
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Brad, I just realized your avatar is a tinpot General rightways up, but a child upside down.

Is this your real opinion about aerobatics?

It?s Homestar Runner, upside down because upside down a lot during the course of a hassle with another RV, Pitts, or whatever. I like acro just fine, and it?s a great skill. For me, it helps my game much like figure skating helps a hockey player.

Why do you ask?
 
Confession

1-I only have one seat in my 3B
2-I took dual in a Decathalon. Got over the fear, but what a BORE compared to an RV3.
3- I do sloopy rolls and dont care for the negative to make the horizon stay on the nose.
4- my interest would be a smooth Immelman for artistic and grace.
5- BUT, I am chicken to pull the loop......😒
FWIW, I have found most quests in life are diminished significantly once you satisfy yourself you can do it.
 
WOW! I'm away for a day chasing parts for my Bonanza in the morning and working on my replacement canopy in the afternoon and I almost missed this thread. Great thread and poll Ron. Lots of variables.

I'll try to address the poll selections and put my "spin" on it. Yes, that was intentional. :)

1. I can understand doing gentleman aerobatics or the occasional loop and roll at a reasonable altitude. It's invigorating. No pressure of competition. A little more air between you and terra firma.

The thing that attracts me most to competition aerobatics is, despite that I have been flying for nearly 40 years and have done aerobatics for most of those 40 in some capacity, is that it has really truly elevated my flying to a level I did not previously experience. I have been comfortable in any attitude for many many years, but now I'm comfortable in that attitude knowing that I precisely put it there with purpose. It's aerobatics with a purpose. I am finding that I enjoy the challenge of making it better and better. I get it. It's kind of like golf or really any other sport. It takes a lot of work to get that last 10% The other things I enjoy about competition aerobatics is that I have yet another way to use my RV that I so dearly love. I'm enjoying the travel to practices and to the contests. I'm flying more than ever now. And of course I'm enjoying the people and the camaraderie very much. I've already developed some sincere friendships that I expect will last a lifetime.

2. Breaking your airplane. Yes, it's possible. Proper training will help you prevent doing something catastrophic. I can't say for sure, but I believe the wear and tear on my airplane has accelerated since I started doing this. So far it's all been repairable. I guess it comes with the territory. But I am flying a lot, about 180 hours/year.

3. Afford equipping for aerobatics. If you're already flying, you don't need anything extra to fly in Primary or even Sportsman. A fully inverted oil and fuel system is helpful to be competitive in Sportsman, but it is truly not required. A constant speed prop is not required, it just makes it a bit easier. A used chute can be had for $1000-1500.

4. Too old. Bill McLean is 78! Sorry Bill!:)

5. I can't find someone to teach me. There are various schools and instructors around the country. Check the IAC website. If you have an RV, you are likely able to get to most locations with relative ease.

On a side note. I do realize it is impossible to get dual in your own RV and stay within the limits of the aerobatic category. For most RV aerobatics, you should only see a maximum of 3 1/2 -4 g. The 6 g's are there to account for botched maneuvers. With a good instructor, you won't see that. The aerobatic training I give starts with stall and spin training and unusual attitude recovery which rarely exceeds 2-3 g Aerobatic training in a Decathlon directly transfers to aerobatics in your RV.

6. Aerobatics scare me. It's the fear of the unknown. A good instructor will not want to impress you with his/her aerobatic skills on the first flight and take the time (baby steps) to address those fears.

7. Wife or others discourage activity. See above. Buy your wife an introductory aerobatic ride.

8. Medical condition. Some things just can't be fixed. Other's may need some attention to enjoy the activity. My wife is contemplating bunion surgery so that she can continue to enjoy playing tennis. Sometimes it just may require a life style change. Although it didn't last long, I actually started working out when I began to fly competition aerobatics. I may give that a try again!:eek:

9. Don't like having fun. I do realize, it's not for everyone. I don't like Brussel Sprouts either. But some foods I've come to enjoy after tasting them a few times. At 53 years old, I'm finally warming up to mushrooms. If you still don't like aerobatics, don't worry; there are many ways to have fun in your RV.

10. Haven't thought about it. Tell me more. Start by searching all of the old threads here by Ron, me, Eric Sandifer, Bill McLean, and others. Lots of info concerning aerobatics right here on VAF. Look through the IAC website. Go to a practice or contest to see what it's all about.

Well, that's about all I got to say about that. Fire away with your questions.
 
FWIW, I have found most quests in life are diminished significantly once you satisfy yourself you can do it.

I guess there are two types of folks- those that your statement characterizes, and those who take the opposite view...that any quest in life is worth the study and effort which opens one's eyes to the vastness of the learning potential that is hidden from those who partake at only the most casual, primitive level. For those who actually care, there is great satisfaction in the continual, never-ending learning process and skill improvement. I believe most RV pilots who do any sort of acro don't really see or care about the potential.
 
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To Many Airplanes...Not Enough Time....

Life is full of opportunities, and we have to choose among them. I fly Acro all the time - and have for most of my forty five (plus) years as a pilot. I am one of those folks that, when I pick something to do, has to do it completely, and well (not perfect, but well enough to not be a dilettante...).

Amid all of the flying I do, and the marvelous aviation opportunities I have ben given, I simply don?t have the time to engage in competition aerobatics - to many airplanes to fly, to many airplanes to test, and (in my own hangar) to many airplanes to maintain!

As a wise man said a few pages ago ?I only have one lifetime and it seems to be quite full at the moment.? I encourage everyone to get as much out of aviation (and life) that they can - and to chose the things that make them happiest. Now right now, I?ve got this new airplane (that makes odd whooshing sounds) to go fly.....

And.... I hope that this poll lets folks know that there is a fun world of competition aerobatics out there to try!

Iron
 
Worked on simply perfecting aileron rolls yesterday with my instructor. Becoming more proficient in my aircraft is probably the most satisfying outcome of the training. I would think any acro training would be beneficial to a private pilot.
 
1-I only have one seat in my 3B
2-I took dual in a Decathalon. Got over the fear, but what a BORE compared to an RV3.
3- I do sloopy rolls and dont care for the negative to make the horizon stay on the nose.
4- my interest would be a smooth Immelman for artistic and grace.
5- BUT, I am chicken to pull the loop......😒
FWIW, I have found most quests in life are diminished significantly once you satisfy yourself you can do it.

Larry,
1. I knew that.
2. Happy to hear you got some instruction first.
3. To each his own.
4. Max Immelmann would be pleased.
5. The plane is ready anytime you are.
FWIW, Agree. And a life will-lived can also mean there are quests that you didn't get to because life got in the way. ;)
 
I will get training some day. I am entering the world of aviation a little late. Most of you guys have flown your whole adult lives, evidently. Just being able to fly was a life long dream for me. I am really late to the party.

I am still working on the PPL. I'm a bit slow, I guess. Still working on the empennage of the magic carpet RV7. A bit slow at that too.

Day job, life, yadda, yadda, yadda. I will get there.

I dream of being able to do a roll and a loop. Just a wing over looks like real fun. I just want to soar.

Someday is comin!
 
Ron, every time you and others post an opportunity or report on an IAC opportunity I say “I really need to do that sometime.” I miss the days of being taken to task, goods and others, etc. There are just to many time sucks in my life right now: some are wives, some are mistresses. Once I kill a few of them off, you might get me, so keep up your excellent promotional work. Eight pages in 24 hours, you’re doing something right!
 
I will get training some day. I am entering the world of aviation a little late. Most of you guys have flown your whole adult lives, evidently. Just being able to fly was a life long dream for me. I am really late to the party.

I am still working on the PPL. I'm a bit slow, I guess. Still working on the empennage of the magic carpet RV7. A bit slow at that too.

Day job, life, yadda, yadda, yadda. I will get there.

I dream of being able to do a roll and a loop. Just a wing over looks like real fun. I just want to soar.

Someday is comin!

Ben,
You came to the right place to get all the help you could ever want. This forum is home to some of the most generous aviation gurus on the planet. When you get your PPL and yearn to explore aerobatics I urge you to get in touch with your nearest IAC chapter. Lots of help there, too!


IAC 120
Santa Ana, CA
President: Michael Church
Contact: 949-852-8850 | [email protected]
Meetings: Every Last Saturday 10:00 AM
Location: Sunrise Aviation
19531 Campus Drive
Santa Ana CA 92707
Website: IAC120.eaachapter.org

IAC 36
Borrego Springs, CA
President: Kevin Elizondo
Contact: 949-637-0483 | [email protected]
Meetings: Every 2nd Saturday 11:00 AM
Location: Borrego Valley Airport
1820 Palm Canyon Drive
Borrego Springs CA 92004
Website: IAC36.eaachapter.org
 
Ron, every time you and others post an opportunity or report on an IAC opportunity I say ?I really need to do that sometime.? I miss the days of being taken to task, goods and others, etc. There are just to many time sucks in my life right now: some are wives, some are mistresses. Once I kill a few of them off, you might get me, so keep up your excellent promotional work. Eight pages in 24 hours, you?re doing something right!

Mike,
The police have been notified. When you get out of prison I hope you will have more FREE time to pursue aerobatics. ;) There are lots of folks here and in the IAC to help you along.
 
I wanted to be there....

Ron, I set at KVKX early Saturday AM waiting for wind condition forecast for my return flight to improve, but winds forecast just kept increasing. I waited at the airport until 1300 local before giving up. I needed to return to VKX Sat evening because I was scheduled for a 6-hour flight Sunday AM. Sorry I missed out, and sorry I wasn't there to support RV acro, but safety-first rules.

Getting together for a planned acro event can be difficult for any number of reasons. I'd be interested in less formal "local" options, e.g., maybe meeting up somewhere with one or more gentlemen acro flyer for lunch and some practice/learning/observing/ground-flying experience. Such less structured opportunity - in addition to what's currently available - would ease my inculcation into this skill-building and enjoyable part of your sport.

Thanks for asking,
Robert
 
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How one receive duel acro training with 2 adults, 2 shoots, and fuel and stay below the max acro weight?

Is the solution to just pre-brief a max positive G of 4 and stay below the max gross weight of the plane and know you'll be over the max acro weight?

I know for my 6 I'm solo, mid fuel, and no parachute and we are pretty much at the max acro weight.

still curious about weight and successful bail outs.

Thx. Interested CFI
 
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Ron, I set at KVKX early Saturday AM waiting for wind condition forecast for my return flight to improve, but winds forecast just kept increasing. I waited at the airport until 1300 local before giving up. I needed to return to VKX Sat evening because I was scheduled for a 6-hour flight Sunday AM. Sorry I missed out, and sorry I wasn't there to support RV acro, but safety-first rules.

Getting together for a planned acro event can be difficult for any number of reasons. I'd be interested in less formal "local" options, e.g., maybe meeting up somewhere with one or more gentlemen acro flyer for lunch and some practice/learning/observing/ground-flying experience. Such less structured opportunity - in addition to what's currently available - would ease my inculcation into this skill-building and enjoyable part of your sport.

Thanks for asking,
Robert

Robert,
Many of us have successfully arranged one-on-one acro practice sessions with other acro competitors and judges. You local IAC chapter is probably the best source to find that guy. You may find that someone else is looking for the same thing. Win-Win!

Tell Adam I sent you:

IAC 11
Washington, DC
President: Adam Cope
Contact: 703-623-9445 | [email protected]
Meetings: Every 1st Saturday TBA
Location: Contact President
Programs: Eagle Flights
Website: IAC11.eaachapter.org
 
Arco

I will, next time I see him. We also have Marianne and Pete here at VKX. I fly with Marianne whenever I can. Pete and I are still trying to get our schedules together. I can't even seem to connect with Adam for instruction because he's so busy, but I'll keep trying. And of course I look forward to meeting you face to face sometime soon. Robert
 
still curious about weight and successful bail outs.

Thx. Interested CFI

Sorry, I don't have your name.

Dick VanGrunsven has cautioned pilots about exceeding published limitations and I fully support that stance. Some will argue that if you are above the aerobatic weight limitation but below the normal max gross weight you could limit aerobatics to 4 Gs and still be safe. I disagree. A very experienced acro pilot may be able to do that, but I have seen several who are new to aerobatics freeze in the middle of an aileron roll and pull right into a split-S with a resultant high G pull-out. Stay within the published weight and CG limits and practice with enough altitude to make a successful recovery from a botched figure. PERIOD!

I know of no attempts to bail out of a RV. Anybody?
 
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but I have seen several who are new to aerobatics freeze in the middle of an aileron roll and pull right into a split-S with a resultant high G pull-out

A million times yes! I think the aileron roll is one of the easiest (might be sloppy though) and most dangerous maneuvers for an inexperienced wanna be aerobatic RV pilot out there. When I was teaching myself how to do aileron rolls (don't do this! get some instruction!) I was fore warned about chickening out at the wrong time and prior to rolling my airplane for the first time I kept chanting to myself "keep rolling, keep rolling, keep rolling" until I knew for a fact that I was back right side up. I quickly realized how easy it would have been to chicken out at the wrong time and end up in a bad situation!

Also consider the fact that at least in the side by side RV's, rolling left seems more natural than rolling to the right. The feeling and experience is much different when rolling to the right! If you are comfortable rolling left, don't freeze up on your rolls to the right or you could also end up in a bad situation.
 
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Thank you Ron. I am an active CFI and obviously love all things RV. I would love if training acro IN my RV-6 was an option, but I don’t see how. Does anyone know the useful weight up to Acro gross in a 7 or 8?

But the way. I highly recommend Rons EAA webinar about acro in RVs.

Hoody
 
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Sorry, I don't have your name.

Dick VanGrunsven has cautioned pilots about exceeding published limitations and I fully support that stance. Some will argue that if you are above the aerobatic weight limitation but below the normal max gross weight you could limit aerobatics to 4 Gs and still be safe. I disagree. A very experienced acro pilot may be able to do that, but I have seen several who are new to aerobatics freeze in the middle of an aileron roll and pull right into a split-S with a resultant high G pull-out. Stay within the published weight and CG limits and practice with enough altitude to make a successful recovery from a botched figure. PERIOD!

I know of no attempts to bail out of a RV. Anybody?

As far as I know, there was one bailout of an RV-8 to escape in inflight fire - but the pilot didn?t have a chute, so even though he got out, I?d have a hard time classifying it as a ?success?.
 
Add another option to the poll

"I've been for an aerobatic ride as a passenger. The pilot scared me and / or I did not enjoy the sensation of not being in control"

..... I think a few slip through the net this way.
 
I would love if training acro IN my RV-6 was an option, but I don?t see how. Does anyone know the useful weight up to Acro gross in a 7 or 8?

More RV pilots need to realize that obtaining acro training in their RV is really not necessary. Learn the basics in a Decathlon and you will be good to go on our own to practice what you learned while keeping in mind that the RV is just a little cleaner. The overspeed issue is overblown and mostly only an issue for those who are literally teaching themselves. Just get some instruction in a trainer. The skills are perfectly transferable. There really isn't anything unique about RV acro.
 
Add another option to the poll

"I've been for an aerobatic ride as a passenger. The pilot scared me and / or I did not enjoy the sensation of not being in control"

..... I think a few slip through the net this way.

Richard,

You bring up a very good point, perhaps not in line with this thread but worth discussing.

I would not encourage anyone who is not comfortable and quite experienced with aerobatics to take a passenger (other than an aerobatic instructor) along while doing aerobatics. Having a second person in the airplane causes weight and CG issues which you may not be ready for.

For those of you who are experienced aerobatic pilots, you are doing a disservice to the aerobatic community if you are anything less than completely professional while flying with a passenger. Remember, FARs require that both parties must be wearing a parachute (FAR 91.307(c)) and the minimum altitude for aerobatics outside of waivered airspace is 1500 feet AGL, not over congested areas, not within class B,C,D or E airspace designated for an airport, not within four miles of the center line of a Federal airway nor when visibility is less than three miles. (ref: FAR 91.303)

I often introduce passengers to aerobatics and want to make it an enjoyable experience for them. I tell them what to expect prior to getting in the aircraft and brief them on exit procedure, the use of the parachute and let them know that we can stop what we are doing and land at any time they feel uncomfortable. I limit aerobatics to positive G barrel rolls and other low-G maneuvers. It doesn't take multiple snap rolls and negative G pushes to give someone the ride of their life. Make the experience so enjoyable that they will want to come back for more or even take up aerobatics themselves!
 
Nothing keeps me from flying aerobatics in my RV-8. I so so just about every time I fly unless it's a cross country.

I have about 60 hours aerobatic training and experience; trained in a Super Decathlon, soloed that plus a Citabria and then my RV-8. Loops, rolls, Cuban 8's, reverse Cubans, lots of spins. In fact I got spin training before even getting my PPL.

I also have about 25 hours formation training and experience. I have upset/unusual attitude training as well

I have a chute and wear it.

I have a helmet and wear it.

But I get the sense that the poll is more asking why people don't compete. That's an entirely different issue from whether or not people fly acro.
 
But I get the sense that the poll is more asking why people don't compete. That's an entirely different issue from whether or not people fly acro.

To me, there is a more underlying question associated with Ron's poll, and that is why more RV pilots are not MORE interested in acro and hanging out with like-minded folks who can help them significantly increase their skills and knowledge. I've always encouraged folks with cautious interest to come out and practice, improve, learn, make new friends, etc. Whether they actually choose to compete is secondary in my mind. I get the impression that many RV pilots do not recognize the world of possibility that exists beyond lazy fun flopping around, while equating "competition" style acro to Sean Tucker's airshow routine. Competing for most is simply a byproduct of having a natural interest in precision flying and the learning process and satisfaction that goes along with seeing your skills and ability pushed far beyond what you'd achieve just wallering around by yourself without any real dedication.

And don't tell me that most RV pilots are only interested in being solo free form non-precision artistic graceful Bob Ross' of the sky or whatever....because I sure see RVers flock to formation clinics and groups. ;) :) There are way too many engineer types among the RV crowd to not be interested in precision flying and the study and camaraderie that goes along with learning to do it well.
 
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And don't tell me that most RV pilots are only interested in being solo free form non-precision artistic graceful Bob Ross' of the sky or whatever....because I sure see RVers flock to formation clinics and groups. ;) :) There are way too many engineer types among the RV crowd to not be interested in precision flying and the study and camaraderie that goes along with learning to do it well.

I wouldn't dream of telling you RV'ers want to be Bob Ross's of the sky.....

Thomas Kinkaid's maybe ;)

But you say there are "way too many....not to be interested..." But yet that's what seems to be the case...hence the poll to find out why.

I can think of a lot of reasons. Firstly, there's lots of types of "precision flying" and acro is only one of those types.

Secondly: sure the Primary sequence and lots of maneuvers don't require direct injection nor inverted oil. But lots of people don't want to clean up the oil off the bottoms of their plane very flight nor pump in more oil after each flight.

Next: not everyone has the time for the sorts of flying hours it takes to get to "precision". Or even to get to "comfy". Heck in the Winter I'm lucky if I can get in the air twice a week given the weather...whole weeks can go by without flying weather.

Next: Camaraderie...like "precision" there's all different kinds of camaraderie in the flying world and acro is only one of them. So that is going to siphon people off.

Same is true for "study"...lots of different things to study in the flying game and acro is only one of them.

Going to IAC meetings (as well as EAA) does take time and effort. Lots of us lead busy lives. Time has to be allotted judiciously.

There's a million reasons, I think, because people are different.
 
To get high scores you need to make aggressive start/stop on rolls and other maneuvers, I like to fly barrel rolls where the ball is more or less centered, not the competition style and so on.... I want smooth, the competition rules want distinct, completely different :)

Hel|, RVs don't roll fast enough to start "aggressively". :D To each their own, but anyone who thinks competition acro is all about jerking the airplane around as abruptly as possible doesn't really understand the goals and judging criteria, and has never seen Ron, Bill, or Jerry fly a sequence in their RV.

And also, you can be into 'precision' acro without being into competition. Check out this herky jerky maneuver I shot in the Pitts. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdMWcQYZXsU
 
To answer the poll:

There is no choice that applies to me. I do fly acro. I am interested in competition. But I don't have the flying time to put into the practice it takes.

Also I could go to a clinic they hold in this neighborhood once a year but I probably would need much more than that to acquire the necessary precision.
I don't have the time to travel across the country from one clinic to the next.

Without observers is there any way to check your own figure? If so that would help. Take loops for example:

I could note my starting and ending speed, altitude and direction. I could see how level my wings were as the horizon appears. But how do I know I made a really good round loop? Based on that info I could be thinking I'm doing great but in fact could be making a low scoring figure.

And it would be only the one competition that is held in Vermont. No time for following the competition circuit.
 
To me, there is a more underlying question associated with Ron's poll, and that is why more RV pilots are not MORE interested in acro and hanging out with like-minded folks who can help them significantly increase their skills and knowledge.

The first choice in the poll is what leads me to believe the underlying question is why don't more people want to compete.
 
I am interested in competition. But I don't have the flying time to put into the practice it takes.

Glad you've got the interest, just be aware that it's really not that much of a time suck. This is a common misconception about the sport. You choose your own level of time commitment. I'd guess I averaged about 40 min. of acro practice time a week over my ten years in the sport, working my way up to Regional level Unlimited. Taking time for weekend contests of course is different.
 
Hold the phone...

For starters, I'll take Kinkaid over Ross and that's a personal decision that has no bearing on the subject of this thread except that the choice to do competition aerobatics or casual aerobatics or no aerobatics at all is a personal decision as well. I will not argue with anyone's personal decision as long as they are not manipulating or using alternate facts in order to support their stance. The purpose of this thread is to stir up conversation, debunk wrong information and enlighten a few about an activity that they MAY be interested in pursuing. The fact that there are over 90 replies and over 3600 views of this topic in a bit more than 24 hours tells me that people are at least interested in knowing more. And if we have encouraged participation by a few along the way... :D

Carry on.
 
One more thing...

I hope you don't have the impression that the IAC is only about competition aerobatics. We have roughly 4200 members and only about 400 of those members actively compete. Others join so they have an opportunity to learn about aerobatics, so they can have fun and increase their skills. Many of our members are not even pilots! Some of our finest competition judges are not pilots! There are many reasons people join the IAC. You might want to give it a try and see what's in it for you. You may be surprised!

Interested? Start HERE.
 
I hope you don't have the impression that the IAC is only about competition aerobatics. We have roughly 4200 members and only about 400 of those members actively compete. Others join so they have an opportunity to learn about aerobatics, so they can have fun and increase their skills. Many of our members are not even pilots! Some of our finest competition judges are not pilots! There are many reasons people join the IAC. You might want to give it a try and see what's in it for you. You may be surprised!

Interested? Start HERE.

No I don't have that impression (that IAC is only about competition acro).

And given the choice, I'd say I'm a Kinkaid man myself. Certainly as compared to Ross.;)
 
RVs don't roll fast enough to start "aggressively". :D ]

:rolleyes:

"Aggressively" is subjective, and an experienced acro pilot telling someone else that their RV isn't aggressive/maneuverable/aerobatic/etc isn't helpful to IAC's image and perception issue, tongue-in-cheek or not.
 
I will get training some day. I am entering the world of aviation a little late. Most of you guys have flown your whole adult lives, evidently. Just being able to fly was a life long dream for me. I am really late to the party.

I am in the same boat as you. I am building the RV8 so that I can try out sportsman aerobatic when it is finished.
 
:rolleyes:

"Aggressively" is subjective, and an experienced acro pilot telling someone else that their RV isn't aggressive/maneuverable/aerobatic/etc isn't helpful to IAC's image and perception issue, tongue-in-cheek or not.

That's a giant stretch there sunshine. It was clearly a joke, and as a former RV pilot, I've been a huge advocate for RV competition/precision acro (on VAF and in general) for many years and have attempted to dispel the continual myths and misconceptions about the sport and these airplanes, so you really don't need to try to lecture me about IAC's image...especially when your posts about IAC here have largely been describing your isolated perception of IACers as being a bunch of childish jerks. That sure as heck is not the case in general. In my time in the sport all up and down the eastern US, my experience has been exactly the opposite.
 
Canopy Modification to RV8

Hi Ron,

I want to build my RV8 for aerobatic competition. Is there any modification I should do to the RV8 canopy in order to comply with the IAC regarding canopy ejection? Basically, can I keep the stock sliding canopy as is?

Thanks.
 
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