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  #1  
Old 06-19-2018, 12:10 PM
Turbo69bird Turbo69bird is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: CT
Posts: 150
Default I hate avionics! Lol

So Iíd like to upgrade to ADSB Iím amd out and also do an auto pilot and eventually Efis. This is the most annoying thing Iíve dealt with, the options are ever changing and every time I THINK Iíve made a decision thereís some thread about how what a I was going to do is no longer the best way to go.

IE: GRT support thread.
Or UAvionics echo missing targets thread

Anyone else get as frustrated with this stuff as I do.

Maybe itís bcause Iím so new to it or maybe thereís really no right answer but man itís keeping me from jumping in on certain things and just staying with what Iíve got currently seems to be the best (safest) option.

I see guys who got into other brand GPS instead of a 430 and 530 and had serious regrets trying really hard not to be that guy, with todayís choices.
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  #2  
Old 06-19-2018, 12:58 PM
Carl Froehlich's Avatar
Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo69bird View Post
Anyone else get as frustrated with this stuff as I do.

Short answer - no.

Perhaps some tools to help you along the decision tree:
- Do not piecemeal. Decide on the end state and them make sure every component supports that end state. If you want all glass IFR and fully integrated ADS-B in and out, fine. You don't need to buy all that up front, but it helps if you buy the elements of an avionics system that you know will all work together (I do SkyView).
- If not IFR, then skip the 430W, the GTN-650 or the Avidyne offering.
- If IFR, decide if you want to buy one of these expensive boxes now or later. If later, either plan on where it goes or plan on cutting a new piece of aluminum for the panel. At $26 a very cheap option - and by then you will have other stuff to change (your perfect plan may not be perfect after you fly with it). The RV-10 panel was changes after 18 months - no major component change, just layout.

Side note. I've flown with the GTN-650 for seven years in the RV-10. I had problem with the unit as it came from Garmin and it was a struggle to get them to fix it. For the new plane I figured I go a different path so I looked at Avidyne. While I liked the Avidyne over the GTN-650 for functionality, I decided to stay with the GTN-650. The decision was made after talking with avionics shops on their experience with Avidyne.

Carl
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  #3  
Old 06-19-2018, 01:17 PM
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Raymo Raymo is offline
 
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I would suggest doing the upgrades in the reverse order. EFIS first, then AP or ADSB, whichever is more important to you. If funds do not support this route, you'll end up piecing things together, which is fine, but possibly spending more in the long run.

And don't forget, you don't have to go with all new equipment to get there.
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  #4  
Old 06-19-2018, 01:48 PM
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edneff edneff is offline
 
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Just from a user perspective, I have used both Avidyne and Garmin touch screen navigators. I have also used the Skyview products. No clear advantage to any of them, it all depends on personal preference. I would try to get some stick time with whatever brand you like before you finally decide. I personally prefer the autopilot panel interface for the Garmin products to the Skyview A/P panel. Can't speak to the GRT products.
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  #5  
Old 06-19-2018, 03:38 PM
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GalinHdz GalinHdz is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Froehlich View Post
Do not piecemeal. Decide on the end state and them make sure every component supports that end state. If you want all glass IFR and fully integrated ADS-B in and out, fine. You don't need to buy all that up front, but it helps if you buy the elements of an avionics system that you know will all work together (I do SkyView).
IMHO this is extremely good advice.

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  #6  
Old 06-19-2018, 04:13 PM
rightrudder rightrudder is offline
 
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My advice is don't be in a rush to be an early adopter. Let others work out the hardware/software bugs, and wait for a more mature, improved product.
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  #7  
Old 06-19-2018, 05:03 PM
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Ed_Wischmeyer Ed_Wischmeyer is offline
 
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Location: Savannah, GA
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For what it's worth:
* ADS-B out can be done largely independent of everything else, the one $ticking point being an approved GP$ $ource;
* If you're content with using a tablet, ADS-B in is cheap;
* As has been pointed out, there's big bucks in a WAAS/approach GPS system;
* Autopilot / EFIS -- that could be more of a challenge. If you're eventually going IFR, you'll want the autopilot to play nice with the EFIS. And if you're going IFR, you'll really want an autopilot as RVs can want to play games with the bumps rather than ignoring them, on course, on altitude like a Cessna 210. The flip side is that although it's great to use the autopilot IFR, you still need to maintain proficiency hand flying;
* One of the bigger challenges of IFR / autopilot is knowing what it's doing now, and what it's going to do at the next waypoint. Along with this is flight plan entry and editing;
* Been thinking about this some from an IFR perspective: glass means you don't have gyros to worry about, but glass primary flight display is expensive if that's all you're using it for. On the other hand, electric gyros are probable not worth repairing if they die, but rather being replaced by a G5 or something;
* Glass can be great for displaying engine parameters, if you have all the sensors, but nearly all engine displays I've seen on experimental glass cockpits have **terrible** human factors. People either adapt or fail to pick up information. Those that have programmable alarms compensate well for poor human factors, except for power displays;
* Moving maps, etc, are really hazard displays: weather, terrain, traffic, airspace being the ones that come to mind. There's lots of benefit to displaying the hazards and the flight plan on the same screen, especially with autopilot coupled to it.

Another aggravation is that current avionics are like computer systems, and become obsolescent relatively quickly. On the other hand, the functionalities are starting to plateau, and full boat functionalities today are likely to still be viable a decade from now. For example, on my RV-9A, the only avionics upgrades I'd like are the newer autopilot controller (knobs on the controller plus selectable course) and a GDL52 (an extra serial output over the GDL39). But those represent only a trivial increase in functionality, although they would be nice. I expect that the RV-9A avionics will provide full functionality for the next ten years, which may exceed my flying years;

The bottom line is, of course, that if God had intended man to fly, He would have given him a great deal more money.
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  #8  
Old 06-19-2018, 06:07 PM
Turbo69bird Turbo69bird is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: CT
Posts: 150
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Ok so I havenít read everything yet, but Iíd add to my original post (navworks) and that I currently have an IFR panel with 300xl All works but the autopilot which is an intermittent wing leveler century 1.

Now works is a relative term because my DG precessess perestroika bad and my vac pump isnít in the green until pretty high up in the RPM range. Lol. So I figured Iíd like an auto pilot and was going to go with a tru track Gemini originally but a friend has all GRT and the GRT graph seems to show a superior product. Problem is it doesnít fit in a standard hole like where my T/C that runs my auto pilot currently sits.
Another friend is doing garmin G5 stuff in his panel right now and thinking back to those who did Apollo GPS vs a 430 pr 530 Iím like man maybe I should go G5 because the pricing isnít bad and it fits a standard hole.


On the ADSB front stark had a great deal on the stratus transponder , but uavionics had a great deal on the echo and GRT gps source which Iíd need if I went with an HXR in the future anyway so itís like getting the GPS free later. Lol

Itís enough to make a man crazy 😂 trying to decide. I realize you at some point just have to hold your nose and jump in, but I almost did that with navworks and man Iím glad I didnít.
Was just about to do the same with uavionics echo and boom that day comes the missing targets thread. Whhhheeeww. Glad I waited 😳. Question is how many more times will I be glad I waited? In the mean time at least Iím learning how to fly steam gauges, spot traffic solely by eye , and fly free hand in all conditions, really well. 😀👍
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While I'm not a builder if I happen to give advice , I will not be responsible for damage to equipment, your ego, parts, world wide power outages, spontaneously generated black holes, planetary disruptions, or personal injury that may result from the use of this advice.
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  #9  
Old 06-19-2018, 06:43 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo69bird View Post
On the ADSB front stark had a great deal on the stratus transponder , but uavionics had a great deal on the echo and GRT gps source which Iíd need if I went with an HXR in the future anyway so itís like getting the GPS free later. Lol
Not sure what you meant by "...getting the GPS free later." The GRT gps is a position source for ADSB; it has no IFR database, and lacks any sort of TSO for IFR use. If you meant VFR use, then there are lots of very low cost gps' that will work. (I have a GRT HX and a G420W gps for IFR; but for emergencies, I can feed the gps from my SkyRadar D2 ADSB-in box into the GRT, with the flip of a switch).
I presume you have some sort of nav (VOR) radio, since the G300 is not legal for IFR use without one. If you intend to equip for IFR, your biggest dollar choice is whether or not to stick with the G300 (and non precision approaches) and your VOR (and hopefully ILS) receiver; or go to a full fledged WAAS GPS box ($$$).
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  #10  
Old 06-19-2018, 09:00 PM
Turbo69bird Turbo69bird is offline
 
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Location: CT
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Yes Iíd use the g300for any IFR for now. Not currently IFR rated and Iíd use the GRT GPS for VFR for now feeding the Efis, is what I meant. Later when I had the cash Iíd upgrade tye G300 to the gtn650.
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