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Apathy

jetjok

jetjok

Well Known Member
Not specifically RV related, but certainly germane to all pilots, passengers, etc.

The 40 years that I have been flying has allowed me to gain insight and experience. As such, it also allows me to state an opinion when I see things that are wrong.
Many of today's pilots seem to have lost their respect for the damage that a propeller can do if the engine ignites unexpectedly. Frequently, I see pilots just moving the prop with no regard for assuring that their body and all appendages are clear in the event of an inadvertent ignition. Watch this video to see how real this can be! (no one is injured, just likely required a change of bloomers!)


http://www.flightsafetyaustralia.com/2014/03/properly-clear-of-the-prop/
 
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You're probably right, and being around Rotax 912 that can be hand propped but is quite difficult to do so, one sees even more lack of concern for the potential to start with one single movement past the mag.
 
Check magneto grounds often. I like to put the keys on top of the glare shield, visible through the windscreen, whenever I'm doing anything around the engine.
 
Almost lost a friend to a 150 hp Kinner blade strike on leg.

My near miss was a BC-12D A-65 metal prop. (cool flange adapter to put on metal prop).

Second priming of planned four, Mag lever switch off, she fires up. Missed by a mile, but time compressed for a few seconds.

I always do a body check, zip or remove coat, gloves on for bigger engines, treat every pull as the one that will fire her.

The scary part was the look on the pilot's face, it said, "it's still off!" It was. A friend, A&P and solid Jarhead. No mixture, saw the switch off before, too. So odd I had to slow down to really take my time and walk away around the prop to see the switch.

He points and says go ahead, try it.

I Swipe to both from off, swipe off, engine starts to stop. Self cleaning I guess. I ask him to do same to confirm.

He did more slowly, but wisely kept it running. His propper was done for that day.

I routinely check mags before shutdown, switch function is by product of a 1350 rpm Mag drop check, a few turns rich of leaned out. Just a technique.
 
more folks flying alone????

RV8JD said:
Also, it seems that fewer and fewer pilots are calling "Clear Prop" prior to starting their engines. I'm not sure what current CFI's are teaching, or whether pilots are getting lazy.
Click to expand...

I was surprised when firing up near a local flying clubhouse....when I called
"...clear prop!...." there was actually a response!..from a pilot nearby who turns, checks that nothing is within or in front of my prop disc.....and calls.....
" props clear....."

gives you a warm fuzzy that some dog, kid, tow bar etc. is not about to be cleaved in two!

now if only several THOUSAND pilots and their friends would stop touching, leaning on, and grabbing the prop so they can look cooler? in every photo!
STOP DOING THIS! the ONLY reason to touch a prop is to clear oil lock on a radial, or prime, or START an ENGINE!
it is NOT a selfie stick!
 
I have also witnessed lax prop discipline, and it disturbed me enough to mention it to the ground crew that was showing it. I think it helped.
 
I don't remember what was intended other than turning the engine over with the starter. AFS switch so the plugs would be sparking. Engine had been shut down the previous day using the purge valve. I was shocked when the engine fired off and turned several revolutions. I would not have expected enough fuel to do that! I then fully realized any prop movement with a broken p-lead is a disaster waiting to happen.
 
Almost got a line boy!

I've seen a lot of pilots yell "clear prop" and immediately hit the starter...

After yelling "clear prop" I make it a habit to wait, at least till the slow count of ten before hitting the starter... Why?

I had stopped for an overnight with the Mooney, and had been directed where to go by a fellow with batons. I shut down and asked him if I could park there, or if they would like me somewhere else. He showed me where, so I was getting ready to restart, looked outside and he had disappeared. I assumed he had gone to direct me to the new spot... I yelled "clear prop" and was just about to hit the starter when I saw his head appear from beside the right side of the cowl. Forgot he had chocked the front wheel... Makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up every time a I think about it.

Yes I'm an idiot, but please learn from my mistake , yell "clear prop" and wait, before you hit that starter!
 
Heads-up !

flyboy1963 said:
now if only several THOUSAND pilots and their friends would stop touching, leaning on, and grabbing the prop so they can look cooler? in every photo!
STOP DOING THIS! the ONLY reason to touch a prop is to clear oil lock on a radial, or prime, or START an ENGINE!
it is NOT a selfie stick!
Click to expand...

I have experienced other pilots don't appreciate me advising them to not hang on their propeller for pictures, etc. I mostly get evil looks or dismissed as an idiot.

I routinely hand start my Champ and clear the cylinders on my 7 cyl Jacobs round engine.

Also had an unexpected start from someone leaving the mag switch in the on position. It was winter cold, not flown for months, in my mind no way it could start, simply just moved the prop one day, it started with my back against the hanger door, NO where to go. NOT FUN

Always, Always, Always treat the propeller as if it were Hot.
J.
 
At every shutdown I move the mag switch quickly to the off position then back on and do a normal shut down. I have found many broken p leads.
 
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Planecrazy232 said:
At every shutdown I move the mag switch quickly to the off position then back on and do a normal shut down. I have found many broken p leads.
Click to expand...

Is that to "check" the mags again as you would do during a normal run-up?? I presume to ensure that the ground wires didn't fail during that flight?
 
AndyRV7 said:
Is that to "check" the mags again as you would do during a normal run-up?? I presume to ensure that the ground wires didn't fail during that flight?
Click to expand...

I do it to make sure that when the mag switch hits the "off" position that it indeed kills the ignition. I do it very quickly at dead idle, then a normal 1000 rpm pull mixture until shutdown, then mag switch off. Like I said I found on different planes the switch didn't ground one of the mags. Could be a broken P lead or even a bad mag switch.
 
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AndyRV7 said:
Me too........
Click to expand...

Just tried the link I have in Msg #1, and the link that krwalsh posted in Msg #2. Both worked and the video played.
Last night, I tried to show it to my bride, and it would not work or was missing entirely.
 
jetjok said:
Just tried the link I have in Msg #1, and the link that krwalsh posted in Msg #2. Both worked and the video played.
Last night, I tried to show it to my bride, and it would not work or was missing entirely.
Click to expand...
I finally opened the link in Internet Explorer. The video does show in IE. I normally use Firefox and the video link is not present in Firefox.
 
Guys not able to see the vid in the link, make sure your script/ad blocker is not turned on. Works fine on Firefox after that.

That guy definitely needed a change of shorts.

If you watch close it actually took his brain 1/2 a second to grasp what just happened :eek:
 
Not the same thing!!!!

AndyRV7 said:
Is that to "check" the mags again as you would do during a normal run-up?? I presume to ensure that the ground wires didn't fail during that flight?
Click to expand...

With a "key" type ignition switch, you don't go to the "OFF" position during a mag check. You move the switch to "left" and to "right", but not to "OFF".

I have seen many switches fail in only the "OFF" position.
 
Planecrazy232 said:
At every shutdown I move the mag switch quickly to the off position then back on and do a normal shut down. I have found many broken p leads.
Click to expand...


This is the procedure I was taught right from my first flight. It has never occurred to me to not do it. It is so ingrained in me that I often do it even after just firing up to taxi from the pumps back to my hangar (about 100 yards), even though I did it 5 minutes before when I shut down after my flight. I truthfully did not realize that everybody didn't do this; it was not an option with my instructors - just standard shutdown procedure.

As for the "keys on the glareshield" precaution I saw mentioned, which my instructor also taught me, I take it one step further to "keys in my hand" whenever I am working around the front end of the plane.
 
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One more caution!!!!!!!

gerrychuck said:
As for the "keys on the glareshield" precaution I saw mentioned, which my instructor also taught me, I take it one step further to "keys in my hand" whenever I am working around the front end of the plane.
Click to expand...

This is also no guaranty. I've seen more than one worn ignition switch allow the key to be accidently removed in the "right" position.
 
Mag checks

As shown in this video, a faulty P-Lead could end up in disaster but what about Electronics ignitions system??

I have a dual LSE System in my RV-4 with an ignition key switch ( OFF-LEFT-RIGHT -BOTH-START ) and when in the OFF position both light on the Hall Effect are OFF so I'm assuming that the ignition system is OFF...Am I right on this??

Thanks

Bruno
[email protected]
 
RV-4 said:
As shown in this video, a faulty P-Lead could end up in disaster but what about Electronics ignitions system??

I have a dual LSE System in my RV-4 with an ignition key switch ( OFF-LEFT-RIGHT -BOTH-START ) and when in the OFF position both light on the Hall Effect are OFF so I'm assuming that the ignition system is OFF...Am I right on this??

Thanks

Bruno
[email protected]
Click to expand...

Are you willing to bet your life on that assumption?
 
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