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Maneuvering a RV-7A in a hangar

W

Whiffletree

I'm New Here
I need to occasionally move a RV7A to get to the aircraft behind. Now when I used to fly a Cessna 152 it was permissable to push down on the rear fuselage just forward of the fin (or to push down on the front of the horizontal stabiliser where it meets the fuselage). Once the nosewheel was off the ground it was easy to swing the tail sideways and the aircraft would pivot sideways about the main gear. Can someone please tell me if this is an acceptable way to move a RV7A? The owner does not seem familiar with this method. If not it is not an easy aircraft to move with a castoring nosewheel and no towbar. Thank you to anyone who kindly responds.
 
I do it but am careful to place most of the downward pressure in front of the vertical fin. My 7A has an 0-320 which is lighter than the bigger engines so mine is easy to do this to. I've been told it's more difficult with the bigger engines.
 
My friend with an 8A uses that method but he attaches a weight to the tail tie down ring first. IMO the amount of force required without weighting the tail first is too much to safely do with one person. I have lifted the nose of my 9A with two people pushing down on the front spar of the tail (one on each side of the plane). If you have a towbar, you can learn to maneuver the airplane pretty well.

-Andy
 
I would have the owner leave you a tow bar, should be common courtesy if some one is parked behind you.
 
If you do push down on the tail, do so close to the fuse and on the spar where a rib intersects. I like the idea of weighting the tail tie-down first, but it's not necessary.

~Marc
 
Tow bar

If it where my plane, I would much prefer it was moved with a tow bar. I would leave it attached to the nose wheel. I would think most any RV owner would prefer this.

When I park somewhere in transit, I also prefer to park it where it will not have to be moved. If at all possible I do not let anyone move my plane. If it is going to be a chance of it getting damaged, it's going to be damaged by me. I do not like having to make repairs, and if I have to repair damage that someone else makes, it is going to cost them very much. My labor cost will not be cheap.
 
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I've been swinging the tail around on my 6A since new. I sit on the main spar and swing it where it needs to go, sometimes while going backwards. I cannot imagine that doing this puts more force on the horizontal stab than flying in turbulent air.
 
zilik said:
I've been swinging the tail around on my 6A since new. I sit on the main spar and swing it where it needs to go, sometimes while going backwards. I cannot imagine that doing this puts more force on the horizontal stab than flying in turbulent air.
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Easy enough for the OP to look at the W&B to determine if the weight for hangar handling exceeds the load of the HS to balance at 3 G's. The weight (force) must be properly applied!
 
Isn't this what tow bars are for? Towing planes around?

Let's see...Bogert tow bars are around $160.

How much is it going to cost to fix a HS spar (or worse) when it gets damaged by being pushed on? Even the cost of the skin + shipping has got to approach that price, not to mention labor, paint, etc.

Just do it right...use a tow bar. That people have "gotten away with" pushing down on aircraft tails means nothing (I seem to recall an issue with Cessnas many years ago due to this sort of thing...)
 
Don't do it ...

I have a RV7a and can tell you that I would never want SOMEONE ELSE moving my airplane that way. If you apply pressure in front of the vertical stab which is where most folks have to start because of the height, it is very easy to put a dent in the upper section of the fuse if you don't apply the down pressure across a large area. If you mess up and use just palms in the wrong place .... you can easily et a big dent or depression or just some serious tin canning if you are lucky.

Once you start that process, any dent that appears there will be your fault by default and it's too easy just to use a Bogy Bar and do it right.

This is the classic example of something you might do to your own aircraft (RV7a) but should never do to someone else's.

Just my .02
 
Make it easy on yourself - and mostly on anyone that needs to move your plane. Get a wheel dolly like this. This can be installed and removed easy.
http://www.harborfreight.com/1250-lb-capacity-vehicle-positioning-wheel-dolly-62234.html

Or, even the cheap small furniture dolly works great. The front tier even fits perfectly in the slot. I took a 1x4 and screwed it into the side brace of the dolly on each side to make V spot to eliminate harsh contact spots on the tire if you want to leave it on the dolly whenever you are not there.

http://www.harborfreight.com/18-in-x-12-in-1000-lb-capacity-hardwood-dolly-63098.html

I can sure understand not wanting to have people moving your plane around. Nobody is as careful as you are. Nobody will admit if they screw something up or even know if they screwed it up!
 
172 or 150 - good; RV-XA no good IMHO

*** I stand corrected. Thanks to RV7A Flyer for bringing information to bare on this issue. The A&P that owned the planes before me did it and the A&P that maintained the planes while I owned them did it too and I shuold have questioned this method. ***


I did that for years with my 172 and 150 but the 150 is very light and did not take much force on the stab, and it was easy to reach the spar. The 172 had a long tail and the force on it was low too.

Maybe it was good, maybe it wasn't but there was never any damage and both are still flying.

I was helping a -A owner once position his plane and he had me push down on the stab but the force needed to lift the nose was much higher than either the 172 or the 150.

I've also moved -A's quite a few time with a towbar and backing it in with a tow bar is much harder than with a 172 or 150. The nose wheel pivot geometry is much different and the -A RVs seem to fight the towbar. I think that is preferable to pushing down on the horizontal stab.

I will checkout the dollies rockwoodrv9 posted about though.
 
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Bubblehead said:
I did that for years with my 172 and 150 but the 150 is very light and did not take much force on the stab, and it was easy to reach the spar. The 172 had a long tail and the force on it was low too.

Maybe it was good, maybe it wasn't but there was never any damage and both are still flying.

I was helping a -A owner once position his plane and he had me push down on the stab but the force needed to lift the nose was much higher than either the 172 or the 150.

I've also moved -A's quite a few time with a towbar and backing it in with a tow bar is much harder than with a 172 or 150. The nose wheel pivot geometry is much different and the -A RVs seem to fight the towbar. I think that is preferable to pushing down on the horizontal stab.

I will checkout the dollies rockwoodrv9 posted about though.
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https://support.cessna.com/custsupt/contacts/pubs/ourpdf.pdf?as_id=22210

NOTE: Improper ground handling can cause cracking and deformation of the horizontal stabilizer structure. It is recommended that a tow/steering bar be used whenever the airplane is to be manually positioned on the ground. Do not steer the airplane by pushing down on the horizontal stabilizer.
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https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...8e9e06&usg=AFQjCNEthKPqY9YE4-7rYdtWge9rRrvRig

A number of instances of cracking of the horizontal stabiliser front spar have been reported. In July 1984 the Authority issued AAC 153-2 highlighting the problem. The most likely cause was incorrect ground handling; pushing down on the stabiliser to lift the nose wheel. However cracks continue to be reported and in one instance the spar was reported to have been completely severed.
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It mystifies me why people are so resistant to using the proper tools sometimes. This, to me, is reminiscent of people who insist that it's "okay" to jack up an aircraft by pushing up on the spar with their back. Really? You think that's a good idea?

*Buy a towbar* and use it. Why is that so hard?
 
Towbar not always the solution

I noticed the original poster is in the UK. Very often in Europe there are lots of aircraft tightly packed into very valuable shared hangar space. It's not always possible to move them out with just a towbar. There is often tape or painted lines on the floor of the hanger with the exact positioning of the wheels so that all the aircraft can fit in the shared hangar.

The harbor freight wheel dolly seems ideal for this type of environment, if you can get them under the wheel pants.
 
Bubblehead said:
Rockwoodrv9 - is there enough room under the wheel pant to get this around the wheel/tire?
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That is a great question - one that I didn't even consider. I don't have the pants on yet so I don't know the answer.

After looking at it, I believe the crank up wheel dolly would work. You may have to modify it a bit to keep it from hitting the pant, but I think it would work.

It would scare the heck out of me to have someone moving my plane around, especially if they have to force the tail down to make it pivot. I don't think I could allow it. I would adjust my pant to make it work if needed - or remove it completely. It gets back to leaving the tow bar attached may be the best idea.
 
rockwoodrv9 said:
It would scare the heck out of me to have someone moving my plane around, especially if they have to force the tail down to make it pivot. I don't think I could allow it.
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That's one of the detriments to sharing a hangar. You can't always be there when someone else wants to fly and has to move your bird out of the way. It's a trade off for the cheaper(er) hangar rent...

~Marc
 
Plummit said:
That's one of the detriments to sharing a hangar. You can't always be there when someone else wants to fly and has to move your bird out of the way. It's a trade off for the cheaper(er) hangar rent...

~Marc
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I know many if not most hangars have more than one plane in them. That has to be rough. When I lived in Snowmass, the Aspen FBO charged $900 per day in the winter to store our company plane in a hangar - and it was shared with many other planes and only the FBO guys were allowed to move any of the planes.

I feel pretty lucky to have my own hangar now at KEUL. It is a T and very limited power, but it is my own and I don't have to worry about someone moving my plane.

I really think the adjustable dolly could be made to work. If may need to be modified, but the mechanics look like it is possible.
 
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rockwoodrv9 said:
I know many if not most hangars have more than one plane in them. That has to be rough. When I lived in Snowmass, the Aspen FBO charged $900 per day in the winter to store our company plane in a hangar - and it was shared with many other planes and only the FBO guys were allowed to move any of the planes.

I feel pretty lucky to have my own hangar now at KEUL. It is a T and very limited power, but it is my own and I don't have to worry about someone moving my plane.

I really think the adjustable dolly could be made to work. If may need to be modified, but the mechanics look like it is possible.
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I wonder if they're similar in height to some I've seen at speed shops and such...Go-Jacks, I think they're called? I seem to recall some of them might have a lower profile.

repo-gojack-in-use.jpg
 
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