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  #71  
Old 11-27-2016, 07:14 AM
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Moondog Moondog is offline
 
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Default shoppers vs buyers

Vans apparently understands the difference between a shopper and a buyer. Shoppers look at bigger, smaller, amphibian, tundra, costlier, cheaper, twin, jet, electric, composite. Itís nice to dream.

But Vans will likely continue to offer what buyers will buy. That's why we're all here.

Next thing coming? Instead of an RV-15, maybe it's time for a couple of simulators.
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  #72  
Old 11-27-2016, 11:30 AM
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Default ELECTRIC AIRPLANE????

WHY on earth (or in the air as it may be ) would anyone want an electric airplane?? Yes, yes, electric powered vehicles are a growing trend, but this is only because electricity in this country is dirt cheap. If you're looking at electricity as a more environmentally friendly alternative to gasoline forget it. The coal fired electric generating station (>80% are coal fired) is the greatest source of air and water pollution in this country. Virtually every lake, river and stream east of the Mississippi is contaminated with mercury from burning coal, and 37 out of 50 states have warning about consuming fish contaminated with that mercury. Not the mention the eventual disposal of all those batteries fill of toxic metals, and the mining of those metals.

I seriously doubt that electric powered planes will ever have the range we desire - even with advances in battery technology. As trainers, will students who get their license in an electric airplane be qualified to fly gas powered craft? I hope not.

But I digress... I've always wanted to see a wing kit for the RV-12 that could turn it into a motor glider. Have both sets of wings for whatever your mission du jour happens to be.
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  #73  
Old 11-27-2016, 12:21 PM
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An electric engine would provide plenty of power and basically vibration free.

A hybrid solution with an electric engine/battery to provide good TOGA performance together with a small diesel/generator package on a dampening mount and with no need to comply with rpm demand from a propeller, scaled for cruise power demand plus some for recharging the battery.

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  #74  
Old 11-27-2016, 01:55 PM
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Av8torTom Av8torTom is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by control View Post
An electric engine would provide plenty of power and basically vibration free.

A hybrid solution with an electric engine/battery to provide good TOGA performance together with a small diesel/generator package on a dampening mount and with no need to comply with rpm demand from a propeller, scaled for cruise power demand plus some for recharging the battery.

Electric motors are SERIOUSLY powerful. What you're describing is a freight train power set-up. Diesel engines to run a generator that provides electricity to the electric drive motors (sans batteries).

Think about the weight of the batteries AND the engine in a small GA airplane. I'm not sure there would be an advantage over just a diesel powered engine.

Will this make flying cheaper? - probably not when you consider the initial investment in a STCd hybrid set-up and the cost of jet A. Will it be more environmentally friendly? - well, diesel exhaust and toxic metal batteries need to be considered.

I'm afraid there's no simple solution. Diesel engine development for GA has been PAINFULLY slow. I also worry about the reliability of water cooled engines (just my personal bias - I know all you Rotax guys love 'em). We seem to be making progress in lead free Avgas - I believe that's where we need to focus for now - that and getting more airports to supply ethanol free/lead free mogas to those of us who can burn it.

OK, OK - enough thread drift from me...
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  #75  
Old 11-27-2016, 03:15 PM
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I have a background in electric vehicles and motor control and I have been patiently waiting for battery technology to provide us the energy density and safety for aircraft use.

I think the first mainstream application will be short-haul commuter flights in the 6-12 PAX range. There is a fleet of Beavers and Otters (aluminum ones, not the furry ones) serving the archipelago around and including Vancouver, Seattle and Victoria. These flights are all about 30-60 minutes in duration and many are by amphibious aircraft.

To expand their market (harbour to harbour service), quieter and less polluting aircraft are a big advantage. Operators would have quick change battery packs and charging facilities. Batteries could be contained in modified floats or amphibious hulls.

I still think it will be about 15-25 years for the techology to be perfected and accepted. By then, we won't even need pilots! So where's the fun in that?

So, we have to decide if we want fun or transportation? I vote for fun, otherwise why are we building?

So what would be the most fun? Motorglider? Personal jet? Extreme Aerobatics? STOL?

Or my vote.... a floatplane that could be folded up to the size of a dinghy and carried with me on my Tollycraft davits. That would be cool. My head hurts.
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  #76  
Old 11-27-2016, 08:15 PM
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I think the market would be for a high wing 'supercub' type plane with the support and quality from Vans.

Something that could take floats.

I'd like to see a serious acro mount, but I'd bet there would not be enough demand to justify the cost.
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  #77  
Old 11-27-2016, 08:50 PM
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Infidel Infidel is offline
 
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Was it 180 or a 360 that happened here? Back on point, a quick build -3 model would be sweet. A quick build -4 would ne nice but in Vans eyes and for costs incurred, stick with the -8. Who knows?
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  #78  
Old 11-28-2016, 08:30 AM
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I'm still holding out hope for a matched-hole Rocket kit...
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  #79  
Old 11-29-2016, 12:53 AM
ron sterba ron sterba is offline
 
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RV - 18 only because I favor that number more. Ok so we have ideas based on desires from the RV GRIN! Let's help Scott and his team under the direction of his team leader Richard offer our building ideas that would save time and money in the building process and still fall into the 51% rule.

Now I favor a RV9A triple 777.

Starting with a PRE-MADE DROP IN PLACE windshield, slider canopy and frame assembly.
Number Two........One piece bolt-on in wings landing gear.
Number Three......Leading Edge Slats with standard wing flaps.
Number Four......... Honda 2016 CRV fuel injected engine. (Eliminates mixture control )
Number Five.........Dual Dynon Skyviews my preference ( or your favorite )
Number Six...........In-Tire pressure sensors
Number Seven.......Drop-in landing lights/lens assembly.
Number Eight.........Slide out three section instrument panel sections. ( a company already makes them )
Number Nine..........Four Venturi air induction for equal cooling to cylinders
Number Ten............In wing pop/Bev coolers.
Number Eleven........Gull wing doors/windows ( drop-in assembly ) option Two
Number Twelve........Baggage door. Fuselage modified because on Drop-In Canopy or G doors
Number Thirteen......In wing golf bag storage ( maybe pushing it here a little ) mostly right!
Number Fourteen......Voice control to shoot ILS approach ( �� )
Number Fifteenth......Bluetooth Command from ATC to plane to fly preferred GPS approach
Number Sixteen........Footstep lighting
Number Seventeen....Pandora Bluetooth Music. ( Already got this. )����������
Number Eighteen.......Automatic Maintenance Notifications

That's my RV9A triple 777

What are your burning desires this holiday season. ( this is a work session)

Ron in Oregon
RV9A Flying 2016
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  #80  
Old 11-29-2016, 07:53 AM
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Toobuilder Toobuilder is offline
 
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I think a Vans Rocket would make the type more popular. I suspect that Van does not want to step on John's toes though. I would not be surprised if the future Harmon Rocket market is the only reason Van continues to support the -4 production. Kind of an under the table endorsement of the type.
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