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  #51  
Old 11-15-2016, 04:18 PM
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walldan walldan is offline
 
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"They told me to squawk VFR and that no traffic was in the area because I mentioned having trouble seeing because I was flying into the setting sun"

I normally don't post here. But when I read your first post it really got me fired up. You assumed the other person was in error. I would propose you were in error.

You mentioned you could not see because of the sun yet were flying a VFR approach. In my world, if you can't see, it doesn't matter if the obstruction is fog, clouds, heavy rain, or the sun... on your approach you did not meet the minimum visual requirements for VFR flight.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe the other pilot selected the opposite runway because it was the safer runway to depart. I would not want to Depart on a runway knowing that someone could be overtaking me and blinded by the sun. Also if he was VFR a departure into the blinding sun would be illegal as you cannot see.

Now add to this you took an unsafe approach and made it even unsafer by not flying a standard traffic pattern. If you would have flowing the FAA approved traffic pattern you would have had ample opportunities to see the traffic.

I am glad it turned out well for you.
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Last edited by walldan : 11-15-2016 at 04:21 PM. Reason: took out some mean stuff
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  #52  
Old 11-15-2016, 04:28 PM
spatsch spatsch is offline
 
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Location: Randolph, NJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillL View Post
Do gliders do straight in approaches?
Generally with a glider you want to arrive at an airport with enough energy to fly a pattern. After all you can't add power and only have one shot so some extra energy is a good thing. So there are two reasons why a glider might do a straight in approach:

1. The final glide planing didn't quite work out as planed (e.g. large sink etc..) and you are running low. Then straight in might be the best option. This is rather rare but happens.

2. You come in to fly fast and low over the runway. Then pull up and fly a pattern. I have seen glider do that close to VNE down to 2-3 feet then pulling up quite dramatically. This was actually the optimal approach for competition flying when I was still doing it. After all you had used all the available energy for speed and that is what the score is based on. Now during a competition that wasn't really a problem as there were generally radios in use and lots of eyes on the ground watching out, however, you see that occasionally even outside of competitions.

Oliver
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  #53  
Old 11-15-2016, 05:08 PM
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JonJay JonJay is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walldan View Post
"They told me to squawk VFR and that no traffic was in the area because I mentioned having trouble seeing because I was flying into the setting sun"

I normally don't post here. But when I read your first post it really got me fired up. You assumed the other person was in error. I would propose you were in error.

You mentioned you could not see because of the sun yet were flying a VFR approach. In my world, if you can't see, it doesn't matter if the obstruction is fog, clouds, heavy rain, or the sun... on your approach you did not meet the minimum visual requirements for VFR flight.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe the other pilot selected the opposite runway because it was the safer runway to depart. I would not want to Depart on a runway knowing that someone could be overtaking me and blinded by the sun. Also if he was VFR a departure into the blinding sun would be illegal as you cannot see.

Now add to this you took an unsafe approach and made it even unsafer by not flying a standard traffic pattern. If you would have flowing the FAA approved traffic pattern you would have had ample opportunities to see the traffic.

I am glad it turned out well for you.
Your comments offer nothing new to this discussion and amount to basically a personal flogging, for which the OP has already endured and accepted gracefully. Let's keep this civil and educational. I would add, after you get a few hundred hours, or a few thousand PIC, you might hesitate to throw that stone. If there is anyone here that has not made a dangerous mistake flying, you haven't been flying much, or worse, the most dangerous pilot that never thinks they are wrong.
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Last edited by JonJay : 11-15-2016 at 05:11 PM.
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  #54  
Old 11-15-2016, 06:10 PM
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ssmdive ssmdive is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonJay View Post
Your comments offer nothing new to this discussion and amount to basically a personal flogging, for which the OP has already endured and accepted gracefully. Let's keep this civil and educational. I would add, after you get a few hundred hours, or a few thousand PIC, you might hesitate to throw that stone. If there is anyone here that has not made a dangerous mistake flying, you haven't been flying much, or worse, the most dangerous pilot that never thinks they are wrong.
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  #55  
Old 11-15-2016, 07:17 PM
BHunt BHunt is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walldan View Post
"They told me to squawk VFR and that no traffic was in the area because I mentioned having trouble seeing because I was flying into the setting sun"

I normally don't post here. But when I read your first post it really got me fired up. You assumed the other person was in error. I would propose you were in error.

You mentioned you could not see because of the sun yet were flying a VFR approach. In my world, if you can't see, it doesn't matter if the obstruction is fog, clouds, heavy rain, or the sun... on your approach you did not meet the minimum visual requirements for VFR flight.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe the other pilot selected the opposite runway because it was the safer runway to depart. I would not want to Depart on a runway knowing that someone could be overtaking me and blinded by the sun. Also if he was VFR a departure into the blinding sun would be illegal as you cannot see.

Now add to this you took an unsafe approach and made it even unsafer by not flying a standard traffic pattern. If you would have flowing the FAA approved traffic pattern you would have had ample opportunities to see the traffic.

I am glad it turned out well for you.
Says the student pilot.
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  #56  
Old 11-15-2016, 07:19 PM
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Toobuilder Toobuilder is offline
 
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You guys are ALL wrong...

The way to do it is a 3 mile initial to the overhead...


Sorry, needed to lighten it up a bit.
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  #57  
Old 11-15-2016, 08:06 PM
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N941WR N941WR is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flightlogic View Post
...
The second part of the equation still baffles me. For two hundred bucks, we can purchase a small radio that will plug into a headset.
Why we can still fly without radios is a mystery to me. Seatbelts are ubiquitous, ADS-B costs far more than a handheld... yet NORDO is legal.
With medical reform behind us, I would hope the EAA and AOPA might look at some safety issues long overlooked. They have the time and they have the interest.
The cost of doing this is more than a two hundred bucks.

These old airplanes do not have shielded ignition harnesses or magnetos. When you try using a handheld radio in one of them, you can listen just fine but when you transmit the ignition makes you sound like Donald Duck.

For someone to change out their ignitions is rather expensive and in the case of my 1941 T-Craft it required modifications to the top cowl to clear the longer plugs.

Not to mention that if they dial in the wrong frequency or the batteries run out, they aren't going to be transmitting.

To make things even more complicated, my next project will not have an engine driven electrical system so I won't have to put a transponder or ADS-B in it. However, it will have a radio so I can fly under Class B & C and within D airspace.
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  #58  
Old 11-15-2016, 08:44 PM
rockwoodrv9 rockwoodrv9 is offline
 
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I don't even have my license yet, but taking lessons. I read this entire thread trying to learn how to stay alive when I am flying.

The airport I am finishing my plane at is KEUL. Everyday I work, I have my handheld radio on listening to traffic so I don't screw up when I am flying. We have a helicopter school here so there is tons of air chatter and the 122.7 is shared with another airport a couple miles away.

Quite often corporate jets or turboprops land here and the majority of them announce they are doing a straight in approach. I had always understood that you enter at a 45 and then do the suggested pattern and that is what most do. Well, the helicopters are a whole other ballgame since they land on the taxi way.

There have been several times that I have heard or seen close calls from straight ins and the jets having to do a go-around. Im not saying it is always or ever the fault of the straight in pilot, but there are conflicts and one day there will be an accident.

I understand the desire of the jets to do a straight in - our company has a Citation X. A go around costs more than a full tank of RV fuel. I started lessons at KBOI, a controlled field and I did my share of straight ins. I really prefer the 45 and pattern especially as I am learning. That way I do everything the same each time and I am at a higher altitude closer to the airport in case of trouble!

Any discussion or thread I can learn from is helpful. Thanks
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  #59  
Old 11-15-2016, 09:47 PM
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ssmdive ssmdive is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockwoodrv9 View Post

There have been several times that I have heard or seen close calls from straight ins and the jets having to do a go-around. Im not saying it is always or ever the fault of the straight in pilot, but there are conflicts and one day there will be an accident.
91.113(g) gives straight in pilots the right of way:
"Landing. Aircraft, while on final approach to land or while landing, have the right-of-way over other aircraft in flight or operating on the surface, except that they shall not take advantage of this rule to force an aircraft off the runway surface which has already landed and is attempting to
make way for an aircraft on final approach. When two or more aircraft are approaching an airport for the purpose of landing, the aircraft at the lower altitude has the right-of-way, but it shall not take advantage of this rule to cut in front of another which is on final approach to land or to overtake
that aircraft
."

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockwoodrv9 View Post
I really prefer the 45 and pattern especially as I am learning. ..... I am at a higher altitude closer to the airport in case of trouble!
You also have to fly to the airport and spend time in the pattern. If you fly straight in, you spend less time in the air. Not saying that means you should fly straight in approaches, but just pointing out that patterns take more time and your engine could blow up while maneuvering to enter on a 45*.... It is as likely as your engine throwing craps on final.

Also, when flying instrument approaches, they tend to be straight in.... And many if not most jets are flying instrument even in day VFR conditions.

There is no "right" answer. The FAA says the guy on final has the right of way and I could be on final almost 10 miles out on the RNAV 10L at KBOI for example. And I can fly that approach in day VFR if I want.
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  #60  
Old 11-15-2016, 10:21 PM
rockwoodrv9 rockwoodrv9 is offline
 
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You can have the right of way and still wake up dead.

Good point about being in the air longer on a pattern approach - but you are in the air over the airport for that time, mostly in gliding distance.

I have known too many really good pilots that had thousands of hours and were better pilots than I will ever be that are gone. My only hope is to not let my guard down and do everything I can to protect myself and passenger.

I knew a guy who was riding a bike and was hit by a car that didn't see him. The car driver was wrong, but the guy I knew was dead.

My plan is to fly a standard pattern, announce my position, listen carefully, and keep my eyes out of the canopy. One of the reasons I chose the RV is the good visibility.

We have several ultralights and cub type planes at KEUL and most have no radio. I never understood why they wouldn't just bring a hand held with them. I learned in this thread that the engine would probably make their transmission garbled. I could not put myself in the position of flying with no communication. I am not judging others - just what is acceptable to me.

Thanks to the OP for bringing this up.
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