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window scratches

J

jwilbur

Well Known Member
Just installed my RV10 door and rear windows. All was well. I removed the plastic and decided I'd give them a wipe down to remove some dust and little smudges. With my box of micro-fiber towels sitting on the floor next to the airplane I picked up the roll of paper-towel. (this was around 1:00 AM).

Using PPG DT870 reducer and then water, I cleaned the windows. And now I have on one of the front windows a thousand little scratches from the paper towel.

I asked Van's about it and just heard back. They sell something called "scratch out" for this. I'm about to order it. Anyone have any experience using this product? Or any others?

http://vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/store.cgi?ident=1473865024-82-102&browse=tools&product=scratch-off

Thanks for the help,
 
You won't believe this, however I have some experience with removing scratches using... Brasso metal polish on a lambs wool buffer pad being turned by an electric rotary buffer. Works a charm, provides lasting effects, and is cheap and readily available.

An old-timer showed me this trick. He has since passed away; it's his buffer that I now use for this trick.

Oh, it also works really well to remove that crusty, aged look on plastic automotive headlights.
 
scratches

The Vans product works very well indeed. Now you know why people say to never use paper products on plexi. Sorry this happened to you despite trying to do the right thing.
 
Van's Kit Works Great

Just apply elbow grease or use an electric polisher (careful about burning). After cleaning, I'd stick with plexus cleaner or pledge furniture polish. Just remember, "paint a fence", not "wax on, wax off".
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP
 
There are lots of light abrasive polishes and scratch removers that will work for this. Meguiar's makes some (or used to, I have some #2 and #3 here). Novus #2 and #1 would probably take care of it for you. Your local auto place might have some polishing compound, though some of those would probably be a little aggressive.

It's plastic, it'll buff out. Watch it with rotary buffers though -- it's easy to make things worse if you get too enthusiastic. I'd do it by hand or maybe with a random orbital buffer.
 
Novus works great

I haven't used the Van's plastic polish, but we used Novus on our 6 canopy when we purchased it. There was significant crazing and scratches, and after using the #2 grit on a buffer in our power drill, it came out looking brand new! I suspect the Van's product will work similarly well.

While I'm responding, does anyone know if you can use surface polish like this on tinted canopies? I assume the tint is all the way through the material, but if it's a surface dye/tint, then polishing could wear through it. (our 8 has a tinted canopy and I'd like to polish it up as well if possible).

Thanks!
 
jwilbur said:
Using PPG DT870 reducer and then water, I cleaned the windows. And now I have on one of the front windows a thousand little scratches from the paper towel.

I asked Van's about it and just heard back. They sell something called "scratch out" for this. I'm about to order it. Anyone have any experience using this product? Or any others?

http://vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/store.cgi?ident=1473865024-82-102&browse=tools&product=scratch-off

Thanks for the help,
Click to expand...

I hate to say, but PPG reducer is about the worst thing you could have used. Hopefully your water wash down stopped the damage.

Don't use any of the wives' tail stuff on your glass - ever (like Pledge). Use Novus #1 for cleaning, Novus #2 for light scratches or fog from paint over spray, and Novus #3 for hard scratches. All are available from ACS and are not expensive. I get the quart of Novus #1 and refill and old spray bottle when needed. A quart is good for 2-3 years of normal use. Use only soft cloth like clean T shirts, never paper towels or terry cloth (towels). You should never need to use an electric buffer.

Replacing one of these windows is about the last thing you ever want to do.

Carl
 
Carl Froehlich said:
I hate to say, but PPG reducer is about the worst thing you could have used. Hopefully your water wash down stopped the damage.

Carl
Click to expand...

Oh boy. You've just given me a very sick feeling. There seem to be a great many people who are using this product in conjunction with the Lord Adhesive to clean off the windows during install. Has anyone seen damage from using this product who would care to comment?
 
Scratch Off

Joe,
My windows have (And Still have) lot's off scratches due to the previous builder leaving the protective plastic on for way too long out in the sun and it took A LOT of work to get it off.
Long story short, I tried the 3 levels of Novus and it definitely helped, but the sheer elbow grease required is impossible to get it all. I purchased the Scratch Off kit (The smaller one) and used the pads and followed the 4 step process.. WOW!!! huge difference. It really takes a lot of patience. Mine are still FAR from perfect, but that's because I needed to really spend more time on each window. I plan on going back over mine again. Maybe one window at a time. I think I can get them pretty close to like new if I just take my time. (It's hard to stop flying to do this kind of stuff once you're in the air!!!) I will say, the Scratch Off does infact work as advertised. You just need a good drill motor and lots of readily charged batteries. Don't use too high of a speed or the stuff will spray everywhere and it's hard to get off random surfaces once dried.. (ask me how I know:)
 
Carl Froehlich said:
I hate to say, but PPG reducer is about the worst thing you could have used.
Carl
Click to expand...

A look at the MSDS sheet shows ingredients known to be bad for these windows. This does suggest DT870 is not such a good product for us to be using on the windows.

The main part of my front windows got a good water bath after I used the stuff during the scratch-inducing wipe-down. But during the install when I cleaned up the adhesive that squeezed out around the edges, there was no water wipe-down. And I used this reducer both interior and exterior all around the edges of all my windows.

I do know a lot of others have used this product in the same way. Are there any reports of damage from it? Is there anything I can do now, 24-48 hours after the fact to minimize negative effects?

http://www.sfm.state.or.us/CR2K_SubDB/MSDS/AUTO_PAINT_REDUCER.PDF

Thanks,
 
Scratches

Additional point of information. We have used pledge on our Pitts S-2A for 35 years and the Plexiglas remains in perfect condition. YMMV
 
Regarding Use of Pledge/Lemon Pledge

I believe for both acrylics (plexi) and polycarbonates (lexan), it?s important to stay away from alcohol and ammonia based cleaners. It appears Plexus (the expensive stuff) and pledge (the cheap stuff) are very close in makeup.

Lemon Pledge Ingredients:
Naphtha, petroleum, light alkylate 5%-10%
Polydimethylsiloxanes (Silicon oil) 5%-10%
Water 70%-85%
Butane 1% -5%
Isobutane 1% - 5%
Propane 1% - 5%

Plexus ingredients:
Alipathic petroleum distillates 23%
Isobutane 12%
Propane 3 %

Source: Plexus Plastic Cleaner MSDS Page 1 of 3 Material Safety Data Sheet
I think the rest is water, just like lemon pledge. Another Pledge similarity is listed Under ?Appearance and Odor?. It states, ?White/Off White creamy emulsion with Lemon Odor in an Aerosol can.?

However, there are those ?Alipathic petroleum distillates? listed for Plexus: Solvent Naptha(Petroleum) light Aliphatic, 23 % - also found in Pledge(5%-10% Naptha/Petroleum & 5%-10% Silicon Oil)

Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP
 
I along with several companies I have flown for, have used Pledge for years. We have always used Lemon Pledge. No issues using Lemon Pledge.


On another note. I would never do this but when I had a Piper Arrow repainted several years back. When it was finished the windows looked like new. I asked the paint shop what they did to get the windows looking so good. He said, you take a little MEK in a cup and put your fingers in it and flick it on the windows and immediately hit with a electric buffer. Like I said I would never do that, but they had the touch.
 
I bought a tube of 'Flitz' at Oshkosh a couple years ago, along with their rotary buffing pad. I still have some and used it to remove some overspray on my canopy from a touch job. It works very well and is quite easy to use. I didn't use the pad - just my hand and a soft cotton cloth. I also used it to blend the touch up area on the skirt that I had painted. It did a great job with that also. Perfectly smooth transition.
 
jwilbur said:
A look at the MSDS sheet shows ingredients known to be bad for these windows. This does suggest DT870 is not such a good product for us to be using on the windows.

The main part of my front windows got a good water bath after I used the stuff during the scratch-inducing wipe-down. But during the install when I cleaned up the adhesive that squeezed out around the edges, there was no water wipe-down. And I used this reducer both interior and exterior all around the edges of all my windows.

I do know a lot of others have used this product in the same way. Are there any reports of damage from it? Is there anything I can do now, 24-48 hours after the fact to minimize negative effects?

http://www.sfm.state.or.us/CR2K_SubDB/MSDS/AUTO_PAINT_REDUCER.PDF

Thanks,
Click to expand...

I don't think there is any need to worry. I used the Lord adhesive and the reducer for all windows in my -10. I used the reducer liberally to clean all excess adhesive from the window/fiberglass joints and I haven't seen any harmful effects. I know at least two other guys who have done the same and I suspect there are many more following Geoff Combs advice/protocol.
 
dhmoose said:
I don't think there is any need to worry. I used the Lord adhesive and the reducer for all windows in my -10. I used the reducer liberally to clean all excess adhesive from the window/fiberglass joints and I haven't seen any harmful effects. I know at least two other guys who have done the same and I suspect there are many more following Geoff Combs advice/protocol.
Click to expand...

Thank you. This seems to be a very consistent report. I've received some private communications saying the same thing. And my own windows don't have any apparent affects from it (aside from being very clear with no adhesive). Chemistry can be mysterious. Perhaps some ingredient alone is a problem where mixing with some other ingredient isn't.
 
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